Empire Service suspension 11/12/23

[EchoSierra]

This was interesting to me, since I didn't know the route of the tunnel, I'd assumed that it was closer to the river here (see below, Hudsonview Terrace seems to be the location of the garage having structural issues according to the news story);

View attachment 34588

Where did you find this map? I'd like to see it as I have no idea how the tracks are aligned!

 

[jis]

Yes. My suggestion would be to have them put you on 291 out of CRT and take Metro North to there from NYG. It appears based on the app they have only put today and tomorrow into Arrow which is probably why you don’t yet have an email. They may be hoping for an early resolution to the problem and thus aren’t officially canceling the whole week.

The Amtrak notification, which has consistently been written by someone who is not good at composing this stuff unambiguously, does not list 291 as a train that originates at CRT. It is also not listed as a train that is canceled. So who knows what it does in real life?

An earlier version had mentioned that 291 and 49 will operate together, which for the life of me I don't know how to interpret. Perhpas it means tickets upto Buffalo Depew on 291 will be accepted on 49? I have no clue.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

Where did you find this map? I'd like to see it as I have no idea how the tracks are aligned!

Open Railway Map (kind of like Open Street Map in it's design/interface - assume it's user built kind of along the Wikipedia model):

https://www.openrailwaymap.org/

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

So is the building on top of this parking garage in danger of falling down? Or just the floor of the garage?

Where NYC building inspectors?

Is Amtrak just been super cautious or is there a real danger here?

Inquiring minds want to know?

 

[Dutchrailnut]

more info on defects see: Amtrak suspension continues over safety concerns at NYC parking garage and at : Unstable parking garage above tracks causing Amtrak service suspensions between Croton-Harmon, NYC

I always wonder why not run Amtrak to Yankee stadium and use bus bridge to NYP. the trains can than be turned at the MO wye.

 

[SubwayNut]

Grand Central has plenty of track capacity! I remember back in 2003 when the lift bridge went out they rerouted Amtrak into it within ! day, why can't that happen today.

 

[slasher-fun]

Open Railway Map (kind of like Open Street Map in it's design/interface - assume it's user built kind of along the Wikipedia model):

https://www.openrailwaymap.org/

It *is* OpenStreetMap data, just not the default map renderings used on openstreetmap.org

 

[Dutchrailnut]

Grand Central has plenty of track capacity! I remember back in 2003 when the lift bridge went out they rerouted Amtrak into it within ! day, why can't that happen today.

It takes time to get Amtrak genesis converted with different third rail mechs/shoes and how many engineers are qualified.

 

[Bostontoallpoints]

more info on defects see: Amtrak suspension continues over safety concerns at NYC parking garage and at : Unstable parking garage above tracks causing Amtrak service suspensions between Croton-Harmon, NYC

I always wonder why not run Amtrak to Yankee stadium and use bus bridge to NYP. the trains can than be turned at the MO wye.

"Amtrak is encouraging riders to take Metro-North to Croton-Harmon in Westchester, then switch to the Amtrak line for the rest of the way to Albany."

 

[Amtrak25]

How are trains with cafe cars stocked with food without access to the SSY commissary ? I'll bet they are not.

The Maple Leaf this morning started off from Harmon a half hour late. I suppose it waited for the 7:19am MN train from GCT to arrive. I would hope they let those with Adirondack tickets ride it to catch their train at Albany.

 

[fdaley]

I hope there is a contingency plan to start running some trains through to GCT if this lasts more than a couple of days. At a minimum, Amtrak needs to post some sort of coordinated schedule telling riders which MN trains they need to catch to make connections. Leaving everyone to find the Hudson Line schedule and figure it out on their own leaves a lot more risk for westbound/northbound riders missing connections and spending a few hours at Harmon, given that nearly half the Amtrak runs are canceled.

For travelers from north and west of Albany, there is also some butchering of connections. People can use the Maple Leaf from Harmon to Albany and then connect to the northbound Adirondack, for example, but the southbound Adirondack dead-ends at Albany after the last train for the night has already left for Harmon. And No. 280 from Niagara Falls dead-ends at Albany, leaving a wait of more than two hours before the next train to Harmon. The Lake Shore shows up in the reservation as running through to Harmon eastbound, but westbound requires use of the Ethan Allen from Harmon to Albany, resulting in a two-hour layover there.

 

[jis]

This might take more than a day or two to resolve.....

https://www.newsweek.com/amtrak-delays-cancellations-new-york-hole-parking-garage-1843480


Notice that cracked beam that is displace downwards left of center in the right hand photo? The holes are just a symptom of a more dangerous structural failure.

 

[NEPATrainTraveler]

Amtrak texted me saying my train tomorrow is cancelled. I clicked the link in the text and was given the option of either picking a different day or a full refund back to my card. I chose the refund. However, 49 is still running from ALB onwards tomorrow, so I booked a ticket from ALB to CHI and then an Ethan Allen ticket CRT to ALB. Coach was sold out on 49, so I sprung for a roomette (which I secretly wanted anyway, but was having a hard time justifying it). I'll be in a Viewliner I. So, yeah, first ever sleeper trip! That and riding the Hudson line from GCT is my silver lining in this storm cloud of anxiety I've been feeling since this service disruption started.

 

[jis]

Amtrak texted me saying my train tomorrow is cancelled. I clicked the link in the text and was given the option of either picking a different day or a full refund back to my card. I chose the refund. However, 49 is still running from ALB onwards tomorrow, so I booked a ticket from ALB to CHI and then an Ethan Allen ticket CRT to ALB. Coach was sold out on 49, so I sprung for a roomette (which I secretly wanted anyway, but was having a hard time justifying it). I'll be in a Viewliner I. So, yeah, first ever sleeper trip! That and riding the Hudson line from GCT is my silver lining in this storm cloud of anxiety I've been feeling since this service disruption started.

Glad that all in all you managed to make lemonade of sorts out of the lemons you were served. So you will get the segment from Grand Central Terminal to Spuyten Duyvil (rightfully "In Spite of the Devil" translated into English ), and a Roomette ride.

 

[alanh]

They should be able to build a scaffold to hold it up fairly quickly. A repair is going to take a lot longer. The view of the track through the hole is seriously yikes!

 

[PVD]

If the support beams are seriously compromised, a basic scaffold may not suffice.

 

[MARC Rider]

So you will get the segment from Grand Central Terminal to Spuyten Duyvil (rightfully "In Spite of the Devil" translated into English ),

Apparently "Spuyten Duyvil" means "spouting devil," in reference to the strong turbulent tidal current.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spuyten_Duyvil_Creek#Etymology

 

[jis]

They should be able to build a scaffold to hold it up fairly quickly. A repair is going to take a lot longer. The view of the track through the hole is seriously yikes!

Yeah, depending on how much weight is borne by that member, the shoring up structure needed could be quite robust, i.e. more than just a light scaffold. It will also involve some jacking up to restore the beam to its original alignment, and of course hope that nothing else snaps and comes down in the process.

 

[jis]

Apparently "Spuyten Duyvil" means "spouting devil," in reference to the strong turbulent tidal current.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spuyten_Duyvil_Creek#Etymology

Sorry. I was being a bit tongue in the cheek to match the determination shown by @NEPATrainTraveler in front of considerable adversity. Hence the smiley.

 

[PVD]

NYC is not taking garage structural issues lightly, since the fatal total collapse a while back.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

This might take more than a day or two to resolve.....

https://www.newsweek.com/amtrak-delays-cancellations-new-york-hole-parking-garage-1843480


Notice that cracked beam that is displace downwards left of center in the right hand photo? The holes are just a symptom of a more dangerous structural failure.

Where are you seeing a cracked beam? What I see is failed fireproofing on steel beams and deck here (looks like there is formwork for patching - the wooden bits):



What I see here is a bigger issue and appears, I assume, to be under the street, judging from the change in structure to what looks more bridge-like, is spalling concrete:

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

JIS - I was just going to reply to your post but it went AWOL - the hole in the concrete topping on the steel deck IS a concern (assuming that the photo of that was taken in the garage) - there is probably more to this, but from that photo it seems like it's in the street structure rather than in the garage. I'm looking at the left hand beam and it doesn't look cracked to my eye, but is comprised of two beams that change plane for a ramp (but a crack could be hiding under fireproofing).

What I'm wondering is where this is vented to since the trains run on diesel here?

 

[jis]

I was looking more at the complete photo left center, which somehow you elided in your analysis... Mind you I am no Civil Engineer so my untrained eyes may be seeing something that is not there, but that beam that is hanging lower than its adjacent one looks a little amiss. The photos are from the City's Building Department shared with Andrew Giambrone who posted them on X.



The associated text says the following, the second part commenting about the second photo in the X posting. The first part refers to the first photo of the hole in the floor. Both are there in my first post on this matter and also in an earlier post. It is the second comment from Andrew that prompted my comment:


Frankly I don't really know anything beyond that. But well (see below) it is now known that it will take them a few days to do whatever shoring up/patching up that needs to be done

Meanwhile, the Mayor says they expect to have things fixed and ready to restore service sometime on Thursday with full service restoration on Friday according to this ABC Report:

https://abc7ny.com/nyc-parking-garage-amtrak-service-disruption/14057598/

 

[Dutchrailnut]

did not see post from JIS , yes part service resumption Thursday.

 

[west point]

Why not Attach LSL cars onto rear of Vermonter at NYP. Remove those cars from Vermonter at Springfield and attach onto 449 ? No additional T&E needed. Another diesel loco would be needed Hew haven - SPG.

Reverse more difficult either hold 417 at SPG or if very later add onto 479 at SPG. Since no train work at ALB a stop of just 10 minutes there to make up the normal hour+ wait for 448.l