Empire Service to get new equipment

[frequentflyer]

https://m.timesunion.com/business/a...eding-cross-border-train-service-14367713.php

Last couple of paragraphs, looks like NYDOT wants to own its RR equipment too. Not a betting person but the odds look good for Siemens.

 

[jis]

Probably will be a tack onto the Amfleet I replacement process, since currently it is Amfleet I except for the couple of Amfleet IIs used on the Canada trains.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

I read the story, my take is a bit different. Amtrak is buy equipment, not New York.

Finalizing the purchases of the new equipment, she said, "will require collaboration with our state partner NYSDOT."

Not sure why I am read this differently.

Don’t think NYSDOT is involved in this, other than paying fees for this equipment.

 

[jis]

I read the story, my take is a bit different. Amtrak is buy equipment, not New York.

Where does it say that? It says Amtrak will be managing the purchase. It does not say anything about who will be paying for the purchase of the equipment and who will own it.

Not sure why I am read this differently.

Don’t think NYSDOT is involved in this, other than paying fees for this equipment.

No matter what, NYSDOT has to agree to at least pay fees to use that equipment, and hence they are involved. It is just ambiguous. Afterall even the ROW between POU and Hoffmans is a three way arrangement involving CSX, NYSDOT and Amtrak.

 

[jiml]

Hey, aren't there a couple of Rohr turbos stored somewhere?

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Amtrak spokeswoman Beth Toll.

But Toll had some other potentially good news for passengers on the Adirondack and other New York state Amtrak services.

"(I)n parallel to the border clearance efforts, Amtrak has a Request for Proposals (RFP) under way for new train sets.

Sorry still nothing about NYS it’s a Amtrak spokespersons, talking about a Amtrak RFP to replace the single level cars.

Not sure

In parallel

means NYS is involved with anything, other than cutting a check.

 

[west point]

NY better get guarantees on number of cars and number of trains. Otherwise Amtrak will assign the cars to other routes without permission.

 

[Anderson]

Well, if NYS acquires equipment but Amtrak puts it elsewhere my understanding is that they'd get lease fees back if they're using less than "their share" of the equipment (which might offset borrowing extra equipment at peak times or during maintenance cycles). As long as the equipment is more-or-less identical, in a sense it doesn't matter where the "actual" cars are being used versus how much equipment the state is being provided.

Now, if Amtrak decides to "get clever" and use "their" equipment on the Empire Corridor while storing NYS's equipment somewhere (as opposed to it being in the shop, though if Amtrak "slow-walks" their repairs that might be another story) and bill the state, that's something else.

 

[jis]

Maybe NY State should require their cars to be painted in a distinct Empire Service livery, so that it becomes obvious when Amtrak cheats and sends them off on train to Georgia or something.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

I hope NYS is buy the railcars themself. If Amtrak causes any problem or does doesn’t sent a itemized bill to NYS. It would be much easier to change operational management.

My takeaway is Amtrak is still not billing New York in a way that NYS is happy about. Recent job openings for someone with audit skills.

 

[PVD]

NYSDOT funded the DM paint jobs and added some NY focused items in the cafe. Are we trying to solve a problem that isn't really a serious one? Leased or owned, cars go out of service for both scheduled and unscheduled maintenance. The sets used in Empire Service seem pretty consistent save for the ADK which has no BC. Add or drop cars Albany-NYP happen regularly.

 

[jis]

It is nothing new for us to dream up problems and solve them on AU, so it is par for the course.

Adirondack often carries the split cafe/BC even though it does not have BC service, and the lucky few can occupy the BC seats in that car.

Adirondack and Maple Leaf have Amfleet II cars from the national pool loaned to the Empire Service pool.

 

[Anderson]

My understanding is that the Adirondack BC situation is a function not so much of Amtrak or NYS desires but CBP issues and complaints (namely, wanting all of the folks to be on one side of the cafe car or the other). So hopefully the Gare Central facility will go some way towards fixing that particular issue.

 

[JP1822]

It is the CBP that prevents Amtrak/NYSDOT from putting a business class car on the Adirondack, but I still don’t understand how it would be such a big problem. If the last TWO cars carry those passengers looking to cross the border and the end car is the 1/2 cafe and 1/2 business class car, what’s the issue? Those crossing the border would still be concentrated in the last “three cars” of the consist. This is how it worked on the Maple Leaf just before they required EVERYONE to exit the train at Niagara Falls, ON. It didn’t seem to be an issue for CBP at Niagara, just on the Adirondack train, I realize they sometimes do further questioning in the cafe car, but more and more the questioning seems to be “off” the train and in the little trailer they have. There has to be a reason though that is more prominent because the Adirondack did try this consist concept, and it didn’t last through to the next schedule change.

The Vermonter has a 1/2 business class and 1/2 cafe car, and it has its sights on Montreal as the final terminus. However, I don’t think that train would ever be extended till customs are moved to the Gare Central facility.

Lets just hope that if the State of New York seeks to get new equipment it is specifically spelled out and agreed upon AHEAD of the build as to what the equipment will be. I don’t think anyone wants to re-live the Turboliner debacle. Any new equipment also needs to have large viewing windows. Acela Express size windows are great! I used to love the refurbed Heritage coaches (ex-Congo cars) that the Adirondack carried in the late 1990s and into the early 2000’s just because of the large windows they had for taking in scenes along Lake Champlain.

 

[jiml]

It is the CBP that prevents Amtrak/NYSDOT from putting a business class car on the Adirondack, but I still don’t understand how it would be such a big problem. If the last TWO cars carry those passengers looking to cross the border and the end car is the 1/2 cafe and 1/2 business class car, what’s the issue? Those crossing the border would still be concentrated in the last “three cars” of the consist. This is how it worked on the Maple Leaf just before they required EVERYONE to exit the train at Niagara Falls, ON. It didn’t seem to be an issue for CBP at Niagara, just on the Adirondack train, I realize they sometimes do further questioning in the cafe car, but more and more the questioning seems to be “off” the train and in the little trailer they have. There has to be a reason though that is more prominent because the Adirondack did try this consist concept, and it didn’t last through to the next schedule change.

The Vermonter has a 1/2 business class and 1/2 cafe car, and it has its sights on Montreal as the final terminus. However, I don’t think that train would ever be extended till customs are moved to the Gare Central facility.

At least twice that I have ridden the Maple Leaf business class - once with on-board checks and also since the detraining started, the business class car was not available for boarding in Toronto if you were crossing the border. All US-bound passengers were directed to two coaches and we could not claim our business class seats until Niagara Falls, NY, following inspection. Unless something has changed, VIA does not provide business class services anyway on this train.

I should add that this procedure does not appear to be consistently applied. Someone else here made the point about losing one's business class seat during inspection. In other words, detraining then returning to find someone else in your seat. So on those occasions they must have allowed occupancy of the business class car by through passengers. My most recent experience was 2015, and we don't bother with this train anymore... much easier to drive to Depew, NY, to catch other Empire Service trains to New York.

 

[sttom]

My question is why has it taken this long for states outside of California, the Midwest and North Carolina to buy equipment? The Empire and Keystone Services together run as many trains as Amtrak California. It would have made sense for them to have bought cars years ago. The Midwest has only been delayed thanks to the lowest bidder rule.

 

[jis]

I should add that this procedure does not appear to be consistently applied. Someone else here made the point about losing one's business class seat during inspection. In other words, detraining then returning to find someone else in your seat. So on those occasions they must have allowed occupancy of the business class car by through passengers. My most recent experience was 2015, and we don't bother with this train anymore... much easier to drive to Depew, NY, to catch other Empire Service trains to New York.

If you specifically buy a BC ticket paying that extra $1 for the Canadian portion, you get to ride in the BC. If you forget to do so and just buy BC for the US portion then you don't get to ride BC in Canada. That happened to me on the way back from Toronto two months back. I traveled by Coach to Niagara Falls ON and then on BC to SDY.