eTickets and Gate Agents Don't Agree

[NW cannonball]

That's been my experience anyhow - I unfortuneatly have a knack for local accent so the locals cuss me as if I knew what they say.

I can appreciate that. I have the same problem, specially when the locals decide that they can rattle off at full speed in their local dialect at me just because I got the soft sounds and accents right in a carefully rehearsed single phrase to start the conversation. My favorite line in France for example, usually the second phrase that I utter in a conversation, roughly translated says "Please speak a little slowly"

So true - if you get the phrase right and the accent and all - be prepared for a torrent or words you don't know and don't know how to answer.

Doch. Bitte langsamer und deutlich por favor

 

[jis]

That's been my experience anyhow - I unfortuneatly have a knack for local accent so the locals cuss me as if I knew what they say.

I can appreciate that. I have the same problem, specially when the locals decide that they can rattle off at full speed in their local dialect at me just because I got the soft sounds and accents right in a carefully rehearsed single phrase to start the conversation. My favorite line in France for example, usually the second phrase that I utter in a conversation, roughly translated says "Please speak a little slowly"

Doch. Bitte langsamer und deutlich por favor

Well, in France it would be something like "Parler peu lentement s'il vous plaît".

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Actually, the various Japan railway employees cut a lot of slack for tourists. For local residents - if you don't have the right ticket or are at the wrong gate - you wil be told very politely to get your act together and stop bothering us rail employees with your ignorance or go home to (very bad suburb where you belong) If you ever go to Japan - the JR roads do not tolerate idiots with - for example oversized baggage - no idea where to change trains - tourists get cut slack, but locals who don't know how to ride ( they do cut Slack for elders) the Japan railway employees will insult and refuse service to anyone who has obviously not done their homework. Similarly in Europe. a rough quote " so you don't know what train you want -- read the book and don't bother me" That's been my experience anyhow - I unfortuneatly have a knack for local accent so the locals cuss me as if I knew what they say.

I've been mistaken for a German in Germany and a friend of mine was mistaken for Japanese in Japan. In my experience the reaction to locals and foreigners was virtually identical in Germany but warmer for the traveler who was perceived to be of domestic origin in Japan. That's just a single data point and not to be taken too seriously, but that was our experience such as I saw it. I've only visited Japan three times so far and for the most part I dealt with automated ticketing machines rather than live humans. The only exception to this was the foreigner specific unlimited rail pass.

 

[user 1215]

My skin color allows me to play dumb gaijin (foreigner) in Japan when it suits me. If, however, they choose to poke at me because I'm an American, I pull out my near-perfect accent and that usually bowls them over into a stage of apologizing.

There are gruff railroaders in Japan, no doubt. Some of the old timers can really make your life miserable if you don't know what you are doing. But that is the exception rather than the rule. Also, in major train stations there is either a JR or JTB travel agency. These are staffed by extremely friendly personell and it is their job to ensure that you have all your ducks in a row. And they do it rather well. These mini agencies can also be found in department stores. Which is what I did when I last visited. "Honey, I'm going to get a liter of milk and Shinkansen tickets. Do you need a notebook?"

Miss that place.

 

[Gertie]

Union Station in New Orleans only allows ticketed passengers into the gate area for 2 very good reasons - security for the area and safety of passengers. This has been for many years, even before 9/11. The station is open 24 hours for Amtrak and Greyhound arrivals and departures with many odd/strange possibly non-traveling people hanging around.

 

[sportbiker]

Amtrak needs to initiate European=style free access to platforms. It would save costs significantly. Amtrak is the most controlled railroad in the world: no other railroad requires photo ID for all tickets, makes all trains reserved, and limits access to platforms in such a way.

Dude, that's just ignorant.

I'm going to disagree with you. Japan does use a gate system, but it's my understanding the Continent is generally ungated and unprotected. One reason is because of extensive platform sharing: a local train might be followed by a TGV might be followed by a regional. A gateless system also facilitates cross-platform transfers, for example, coming in on a regional so you can grab a TGV (or an ICE) one platform over (or even the same platform if it's timed right) for your backbone journey. A gated system would require you to partially exit the station so you could re-enter through the correct gate. A third reason, in practice if not by design, is that train stations aren't airports: there's no reason to make a traveler pass through a gauntlet of different rooms on the way to the train. Convenience is a big train selling point: walk off the street, walk to the platform, get on your train. Easy peasy.

This country is so afraid of its own shadow (and the security-industrial complex has so much money to make) that I fear train stations will increasingly resemble airports with all the theater that entails. Some are half-way there already.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

Wonder how the guardians of the gates will handle multiple names on one ticket? How many will demand that everyone have there own ticket and go back to the ticket window and sort it out etc? How are the conductors handing 2 or more names on 1 e-ticket?

 

[Acela150]

Wonder how the guardians of the gates will handle multiple names on one ticket? How many will demand that everyone have there own ticket and go back to the ticket window and sort it out etc? How are the conductors handing 2 or more names on 1 e-ticket?

While I was on 95 on Tuesday. Out of WAS a passenger had tickets for herself and her family. It seems it prints for whoever is on the reservation. OR you can print as many as you need. That's what I would do.

 

[PaulM]

Amtrak needs to initiate European=style free access to platforms. It would save costs significantly. Amtrak is the most controlled railroad in the world: no other railroad requires photo ID for all tickets, makes all trains reserved, and limits access to platforms in such a way.

Dude, that's just ignorant.

I'm going to disagree with you. Japan does use a gate system, but it's my understanding the Continent is generally ungated and unprotected. One reason is because of extensive platform sharing: a local train might be followed by a TGV might be followed by a regional. A gateless system also facilitates cross-platform transfers, for example, coming in on a regional so you can grab a TGV (or an ICE) one platform over (or even the same platform if it's timed right) for your backbone journey. A gated system would require you to partially exit the station so you could re-enter through the correct gate.

I agree with sportbiker. And his post reminds me of just how dumb gate agents would be. From time to time I've organized bike trips across Austria with up to 8 people; and the most exciting part was making 7 minute connections that I had never made before. This required finding not only the right track, but the bike car as well. Gate agents would have made it impossible.

The "safety of the passengers" argument is really a cultural issue. I once was killing time in the Munich main station (on the platform of course) and got to talking to someone who related how someone had their arm broken when they had it in the wrong spot when the automatic doors closed. I'm sure the victim was not able to sue DB, and only received as remuneration a free lesson in how not to board a train.

 

[jis]

Amtrak needs to initiate European=style free access to platforms. It would save costs significantly. Amtrak is the most controlled railroad in the world: no other railroad requires photo ID for all tickets, makes all trains reserved, and limits access to platforms in such a way.

Dude, that's just ignorant.

I'm going to disagree with you. Japan does use a gate system, but it's my understanding the Continent is generally ungated and unprotected. One reason is because of extensive platform sharing: a local train might be followed by a TGV might be followed by a regional. A gateless system also facilitates cross-platform transfers, for example, coming in on a regional so you can grab a TGV (or an ICE) one platform over (or even the same platform if it's timed right) for your backbone journey. A gated system would require you to partially exit the station so you could re-enter through the correct gate.

I agree with sportbiker. And his post reminds me of just how dumb gate agents would be. From time to time I've organized bike trips across Austria with up to 8 people; and the most exciting part was making 7 minute connections that I had never made before. This required finding not only the right track, but the bike car as well. Gate agents would have made it impossible.

It depends a bit on where the gate wickets are located relative to the concourse and platforms. In a typical Japanese style placement for example in New York Penn Station the gate wickets would be very close to the points where you enter the concourse, and not at individual platforms. So getting from one track to another does not involve passing through any wickets unless you are going to a higher base fare class service, e.g. from Tokyo Suburban to Shinkansen. Even then the gates will be in moving from one concourse to another, not in moving from just one platform to another. For various serious technical reasons Shinkansens do not share platform tracks with other trains, except in rare exceptions like at Akita.

Admittedly, the only workable solution using gated area in NYP hypothetically, would involve requiring a common fare instrument with at least the lowest fare on it. Typically higher fare services have tickets checked on board anyway. Of course the fact that there is no such common fare instrument in the NY area would preclude any such mechanism being put in place at NYP anyway.

The "safety of the passengers" argument is really a cultural issue. I once was killing time in the Munich main station (on the platform of course) and got to talking to someone who related how someone had their arm broken when they had it in the wrong spot when the automatic doors closed. I'm sure the victim was not able to sue DB, and only received as remuneration a free lesson in how not to board a train.

That is absolutely correct.

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

Union Station in New Orleans only allows ticketed passengers into the gate area for 2 very good reasons - security for the area and safety of passengers. This has been for many years, even before 9/11. The station is open 24 hours for Amtrak and Greyhound arrivals and departures with many odd/strange possibly non-traveling people hanging around.

I am VERY Odd and some times I look strange .

I wear compression tights under my shorts as it helps my knees ....

I tote a Military grade laptop that most think is a metal box.

I don't see your point .........

 

[rtabern]

Yes, do away with ALL gate agents, especially in Chicago... I have never understood their point. I would definetely put employees around the gates in case passengers need assistance in finding their train or have questions -- but cut out the "gate ****" BS.

I mean Metra doesn't use gate agents at Union Station -- so why does Amtrak?

If someone gets on the wrong train -- then it should be their problem -- just like if you boarded the wrong Metra train. If an unticketed passengers gets on the train -- they have to pay fare or get thrown off at the next grade crossing or stop -- just like Metra.

 

[MattW]

Yes, do away with ALL gate agents, especially in Chicago... I have never understood their point. I would definetely put employees around the gates in case passengers need assistance in finding their train or have questions -- but cut out the "gate ****" BS.

I mean Metra doesn't use gate agents at Union Station -- so why does Amtrak?

If someone gets on the wrong train -- then it should be their problem -- just like if you boarded the wrong Metra train. If an unticketed passengers gets on the train -- they have to pay fare or get thrown off at the next grade crossing or stop -- just like Metra.

I agree with getting rid of the gate agents. I haven't had the "pleasure" of interacting with Amtrak's Chicago gate agents, and while the New York GA's weren't unpleasant, I failed to see the point of it all. The only place where it makes any sense at all is on the long distance trains, but if they're really concerned about people getting on the wrong train, just have the train attendants glance at the train number when boarding. This also spreads the delay from one point to two or three depending on how many attendants are on each train. For the northeast corridor trains, since they don't seem to have the attendants that LDs do and they open most if not all doors, the next station isn't too far away so just putting them off there and having them take a reverse train shouldn't be too hard. Also, the corridor is littered with commuter services that could probably get someone to the next actual Amtrak station if they didn't want to backtrack (weekends could be problematic though). But I can see a problem (and I believed that it's been mentioned in other topics) where the person yells at the crew, yells at customer relations later, and threatens lawyers and all so to do away with GA's would also require Amtrak deciding to put more responsibility on the passenger.

 

[NW cannonball]

I'm sorry for my earlier reply -- because I really don't know "What is a 'Gate Agent'" -- we don't have them at MSP and my last trip thru WAS was thru Acela lounge. Where we sleeper car people were escorted behind the scenes to our cars.

In short -- WTF - is a "gate agent" - I'm naive only doing EB and some east coast trains and Silvers - What is a "Gate Agent" ?

 

[amtrakwolverine]

Gate agents or gate n.a.z.i.s are the amtrak people in Chicago union station that will not let you past the velvet rope without a ticket they will check your ticket. Some gate agents are nice and friendly but most are meaner then a junk yard dog. In Boston you just have one on the platform flash your ticket and you may pass. I.E for Chicago gate keepers. during the STL fest had8ly among others wandered down to the tracks to get a photo of a private car. This gate agent came down and started yelling at them calling for security saying they were criminals etc.

 

[NW cannonball]

Gate agents or gate n.a.z.i.s are the amtrak people in Chicago union station that will not let you past the velvet rope without a ticket they will check your ticket. Some gate agents are nice and friendly but most are meaner then a junk yard dog. In Boston you just have one on the platform flash your ticket and you may pass. I.E for Chicago gate keepers. during the STL fest had8ly among others wandered down to the tracks to get a photo of a private car. This gate agent came down and started yelling at them calling for security saying they were criminals etc.

Yeah - so I have to show a ticket to get on the train -- this is normal and reasonable --

But WTF is a "gate agent" - here in MSP we don't have enough passengers to merit some such - at WAS or NYP never saw such a thing - but that was a decade ago.

Just what IS a "gate agent" and what does it do?

And where? and what for? I've not met one - but not done east of CHI trains recently -- except for WAS-JAX earlier this month where I never met such a crittur.

 

[sportbiker]

Regardless of what gate agents claim to do, that the entire position is unnecessary can be seen at LAX: it's the fifth busiest station in the country with over 1.5 million Amtrak passengers (plus Metrolink, plus Metro Rail) and no gate agents. You can wander onto any platform at any time. Yet, somehow, despite the odds, LAX continues to operate day-in and day-out, people manage to find their trains, and there are no groups of terrorists playing rock-paper-scissors to see who can sabotage the next southbound Surfliner.

 

[NW cannonball]

Riding Amtrak about once a year for the last 40 years. Mostly EB and CHI-WAS-or- NYP

What is a "gate agent"

Never met one, don't know what it is - don't know what stations these things are at -- what is a "gate agent"?

Seems that they are some kind of obstructive things - but I've been lucky to never met one -- so what IS it?

Really curious to know -- honestly don't have a clue -- what are they? what is a "gate agent"

sorry for being so ignorant.

 

[Gertie]

Union Station in New Orleans only allows ticketed passengers into the gate area for 2 very good reasons - security for the area and safety of passengers. This has been for many years, even before 9/11. The station is open 24 hours for Amtrak and Greyhound arrivals and departures with many odd/strange possibly non-traveling people hanging around.

I am VERY Odd and some times I look strange .

I wear compression tights under my shorts as it helps my knees ....

I tote a Military grade laptop that most think is a metal box.

I don't see your point .........

 

[NW cannonball]

Union Station in New Orleans only allows ticketed passengers into the gate area for 2 very good reasons - security for the area and safety of passengers. This has been for many years, even before 9/11. The station is open 24 hours for Amtrak and Greyhound arrivals and departures with many odd/strange possibly non-traveling people hanging around.

I am VERY Odd and some times I look strange .

I wear compression tights under my shorts as it helps my knees ....

I tote a Military grade laptop that most think is a metal box.

I don't see your point .........

And -- I still don't know what is "gate agent" - I don't care about how anybody looks -

Please will someone answer - what IS a "gate agent" Where are they and what do they do?

 

[The Davy Crockett]

...what IS a "gate agent" Where are they and what do they do?

At many major stations there is an Amtrak employee who looks at tickets before they let you go to the platform. It is similar to the boarding process at airports, but they don't actually scan/punch/take your ticket. They just look at it.

Their job is basically to make sure only ticketed passengers - for that specific train - get to the platform. At WAS at least, they are part of what one might call the 'security' at the gate, as there are usually a couple of Amcops with a dog or two that pax pass through.

 

[NW cannonball]

...what IS a "gate agent" Where are they and what do they do?

At many major stations there is an Amtrak employee who looks at tickets before they let you go to the platform. It is similar to the boarding process at airports, but they don't actually scan/punch/take your ticket. They just look at it.

Their job is basically to make sure only ticketed passengers - for that specific train - get to the platform. At WAS at least, they are part of what one might call the 'security' at the gate, as there are usually a couple of Amcops with a dog or two that pax pass through.

OK I seem to understand what they are - last trip WAS to somewhere I was sleeping car and bypassed this thing. Never met the critturs before. Do these creatures have eyes to scan e-tickets?

 

[The Davy Crockett]

...what IS a "gate agent" Where are they and what do they do?

At many major stations there is an Amtrak employee who looks at tickets before they let you go to the platform. It is similar to the boarding process at airports, but they don't actually scan/punch/take your ticket. They just look at it.

Their job is basically to make sure only ticketed passengers - for that specific train - get to the platform. At WAS at least, they are part of what one might call the 'security' at the gate, as there are usually a couple of Amcops with a dog or two that pax pass through.

OK I seem to understand what they are - last trip WAS to somewhere I was sleeping car and bypassed this thing. Never met the critturs before. Do these creatures have eyes to scan e-tickets?

Yes, exactly. Problem is, their 'scanners' are not always connected to the CPU. :wacko:

 

[NW cannonball]

...what IS a "gate agent" Where are they and what do they do?

At many major stations there is an Amtrak employee who looks at tickets before they let you go to the platform. It is similar to the boarding process at airports, but they don't actually scan/punch/take your ticket. They just look at it.

Their job is basically to make sure only ticketed passengers - for that specific train - get to the platform. At WAS at least, they are part of what one might call the 'security' at the gate, as there are usually a couple of Amcops with a dog or two that pax pass through.

OK I seem to understand what they are - last trip WAS to somewhere I was sleeping car and bypassed this thing. Never met the critturs before. Do these creatures have eyes to scan e-tickets?

Yes, exactly. Problem is, their 'scanners' are not always connected to the CPU. :wacko:

OK, got it. Me old IT guy. Another annoyance. Ever heard of "risks" - at catless nl ? Or Bruce Schneier's blog?

Can deal with if ever meet this thing.

Thanks.