Fare Buckets Discussion 2025

[pennyk]

From January 5, 2025 forward, please post comments discussing Fare Buckets here. For previous posts regarding Fare Buckets, please refer to this thread, which is currently locked:

https://www.amtraktrains.com/threads/fare-buckets-discussion-2023-q4-2024.86129/page-11

 

[Stevenz]

May I ask at the beginning of this thread if there is an explainer on fare buckets on this site somewhere? I don’t expect anyone to have to repeat what might already be here just to get me up to speed without going through the 2023-24 thread. Thanks.

 

[trimetbusfan]

Thanks to Railforless, I have spotted several new low bucket fares on the Sunset Limited.

New roomette fares:
$579
$637
$707

New bedroom fares:
$1363

New family bedroom fares:
$1141
$1280

On the previous fare chart (which can be found here), the lowest roomette fare was $800, so this is a significant improvement. It looks like the restoration of the Transdorm car has made low buckets a lot more prominent on this route, which is good.

 

[daybeers]

"Low"

 

[Bob Dylan]

"Low"

Yep, the last 2 times I went to LAX from Austin I flew for 25% of the Roomette Charge, and 10% of a Bedroom.Charge.( they're usually Sold Out on most days it runs)

 

[zephyr17]

Yep, the last 2 times I went to LAX from Austin I flew for 25% of the Roomette Charge, and 10% of a Bedroom.Charge.( they're usually Sold Out on most days it runs)

As concise an explanation for the high sleeper prices as I have seen here...sold out despite air fare being a fraction of the cost.

 

[Eric in East County]

As concise an explanation for the high sleeper prices as I have seen here...sold out despite air fare being a fraction of the cost.

As seniors who can no longer drive long distances and who detest flying, booking a bedroom with its own shower and toilet is the only way we are able to travel long distances. There are undoubtedly many other people like us, which is why the bedrooms are usually sold out months in advance. (How many people have given up on Amtrak because no bedrooms or roomettes were available when they tried to book one.) IMHO, if Amtrak had the equipment to add extra sleepers to its long distance trains, even more bedrooms and roomettes could be sold as the demand undoubtedly exceeds the supply.

 

[GariYaMoshi]

As seniors who can no longer drive long distances and who detest flying, booking a bedroom with its own shower and toilet is the only way we are able to travel long distances. There are undoubtedly many other people like us, which is why the bedrooms are usually sold out months in advance. (How many people have given up on Amtrak because no bedrooms or roomettes were available when they tried to book one.) IMHO, if Amtrak had the equipment to add extra sleepers to its long distance trains, even more bedrooms and roomettes could be sold as the demand undoubtedly exceeds the supply.

We no longer do the longer road trips. Neither of us enjoy flying so train travel for multi-day travels are the way to go.

Roomettes are too tight, we prefer the bedrooms. Having a toilet is a bonus.

It was heartening to see some younger folks in the sleepers on our trip in November and December.

 

[allanorn]

Yep, the last 2 times I went to LAX from Austin I flew for 25% of the Roomette Charge, and 10% of a Bedroom.Charge.( they're usually Sold Out on most days it runs)

It's sad as someone who wants to travel more by train. Roomettes have become so expensive that I only book them for trips where the train journey is part of the destination. Otherwise I'll fly as I'd rather sit in coach on an airplane for a few hours over coach on a train for multiple days.

 

[Qapla]

As a senior, I no longer have the desire to drive from Florida to NYC or Chicago and I don't fly - however, as a senior I am also on a semi-fixed income and can't justify a fare that is 4.7-9.4 times that of a coach ticket - until room prices come down, I'll ride coach or not go at all.

 

[zephyr17]

Unfortunately, as long as supply/demand situation remains unchanged, the chances of a general decline in sleeper prices are quite low, to put it mildly.

The constrained supply will not change significantly until new LD equipment is ordered, constructed, received and enters revenue service. And even then the pricing will not change unless the order includes a large number of sleepers, something I do not have any confidence in. Replacing about a similar inventory level to that offered now seems more likely, IMHO. Even that assumes a new LD equipment acquisition continues to go forward, something I am doubtful of in the current environment.

In the end, we are up against some iron laws of economics. Shouting about it has about the same effect as King Canute commanding the tide.

 

[BlackDiamond]

The high price of sleepers is sad when you compare it to Europe where for example a NightJet compartment for 2 from Paris to Vienna is about 110 Euros (about $114) per person. Of course these trains are generally not as luxurious as Amtrak - often there is no food or maybe a light continental breakfast. Also if you think Superliners are old, some of the equipment, particularly that operated by European Sleeper, is rebuilt from equipment originally built in the 1950s (a la VIA's Canadian). I'm not sure why things are generally cheaper over there, government subsidies perhaps, since many European governments are trying to cut back on short haul air travel.

 

[west point]

IMO more sleepers that are badly needed will not be ordered unless congress and now the president mandates it. The question then becomes what demand then for sleepers? Speculation: If sleeper prices were cut in half how many potential riders would come from other wise coach riders. Then how many new sleeper riders that would not otherwise ride Amtrak.

 

[Qapla]

how many potential riders would come from other wise coach riders. Then how many new sleeper riders that would not otherwise ride Amtrak.

While I can't give a number, I know many who never really gave Amtrak a thought as a way to travel comment on how nice riding a train would be - that it was something they didn't know was still available. However, when they see the prices for a sleeper, they then drop back to, "I can take a plane for way less than that and get there faster!" or "For that much money I can drive and stay in a hotel overnight for half that price!"

There are people willing to give Amtrak a try if it were less expensive.

 

[allanorn]

The high price of sleepers is sad when you compare it to Europe where for example a NightJet compartment for 2 from Paris to Vienna is about 110 Euros (about $114) per person. Of course these trains are generally not as luxurious as Amtrak - often there is no food or maybe a light continental breakfast. Also if you think Superliners are old, some of the equipment, particularly that operated by European Sleeper, is rebuilt from equipment originally built in the 1950s (a la VIA's Canadian). I'm not sure why things are generally cheaper over there, government subsidies perhaps, since many European governments are trying to cut back on short haul air travel.

You're not on individual European night trains as long. Paris - Vienna is 14 hours and that's one of the longest outside of Eastern Europe and Russia. There is often no cafe car either: breakfasts are light and any evening meals are typically of the heat-and-eat kind. (Most people using European night trains eat dinner before boarding the train.) That and coffee are something a sleeper attendant can handle.

No cafe car, simple couchettes and sleeping arrangements, plus the cars and track are rated between 100-125mph.

There's also probably some subsidy going on but I don't know to what extent, especially if European Sleeper and Snälltåget (both private) are doing well.

 

[Anderson]

You're not on individual European night trains as long. Paris - Vienna is 14 hours and that's one of the longest outside of Eastern Europe and Russia. There is often no cafe car either: breakfasts are light and any evening meals are typically of the heat-and-eat kind. (Most people using European night trains eat dinner before boarding the train.) That and coffee are something a sleeper attendant can handle.

No cafe car, simple couchettes and sleeping arrangements, plus the cars and track are rated between 100-125mph.

There's also probably some subsidy going on but I don't know to what extent, especially if European Sleeper and Snälltåget (both private) are doing well.

Yeah, but the presence of a cafe/diner doesn't feel like it "should" add $500 to the cost of a sleeper. $100-150, perhaps, but not $500.

A lot of those trains do have solo sleepers and so on that are a bit more, but even then you're looking at maybe $200, not $800 (which is literally what the Floridian is going for two weeks out RVR-ORL - I compare this to the Star a decade ago (before the Silver Starvation experiment, to be clear) and the prices are like 3x now what they were then).

I've been grumpy for a long time that Amtrak has bungled acquiring new LD equipment - the Viewliner II debacle sits high on my list here, but the general mess here (lengthy, possibly unrealistic RFIs and so on) is deeply problematic.

 

[zephyr17]

I've been grumpy for a long time that Amtrak has bungled acquiring new LD equipment - the Viewliner II debacle sits high on my list here, but the general mess here (lengthy, possibly unrealistic RFIs and so on) is deeply problematic.

Amtrak bungling? Who'd have ever thought.

I'd be a lot more surprised by a smooth, intelligent process than screwing up. Screwing up is Amtrak’s SOP.

 

[allanorn]

Yeah, but the presence of a cafe/diner doesn't feel like it "should" add $500 to the cost of a sleeper. $100-150, perhaps, but not $500.

A lot of those trains do have solo sleepers and so on that are a bit more, but even then you're looking at maybe $200, not $800 (which is literally what the Floridian is going for two weeks out RVR-ORL - I compare this to the Star a decade ago (before the Silver Starvation experiment, to be clear) and the prices are like 3x now what they were then).

I've been grumpy for a long time that Amtrak has bungled acquiring new LD equipment - the Viewliner II debacle sits high on my list here, but the general mess here (lengthy, possibly unrealistic RFIs and so on) is deeply problematic.

I had a one-bed Nightjet room with the in-room shower booked between Linz and Hamburg for €226 back in 2023, but a German train driver strike canceled those plans. That was the most expensive room on the train.

I agree a cafe shouldn't add $500, but if you have to keep it open and staffed with food it's going to add a bit of operating cost. I have no idea how track charges are calculated and to what effect that has on ticket prices.

I think you're right in that Amtrak has not (or was not able to) adequately plan for new LD equipment. In comparison Nightjet runs pretty well by most accounts; ÖBB saw the opportunity left behind by DB and seized it with both hands and a good strategy.