Farewell to the Queen of the Skies

[Devil's Advocate]

In technical terms the 747 deserves its storied reputation, but in terms of actual flying the coach cabin on a 742, 743, or 744 was a lot like any other Boeing of the era. The first time you enter the nose or the second floor is a novel experience, but it soon becomes just another flight. For me the only aircraft that truly felt different was the A380. It may look uglier than sin and come with a burn rate that makes no sense, but it also came with more width, more pitch, less noise, and smoother turbulence. I've had plenty of cramped and uncomfortable experiences on 737's, 747's, 757's, 767's, 777's, and 787's, but not on an A380. I can fully understand why the A380 is being retired at the fastest rate of any widebody ever, but as a passenger it was the only time the aircraft did as much to influence my comfort as the airline.

 

[bonzoesc]

In the economy section, the 17.3" of width in 3-3-3 economy seating pretty much made it so I had to interlock shoulders with my wife and daughter. I don't remember the pitch being too bad though?

Pitch is the easiest thing for an airline to customize on a plane. Seat width basically can only be changed by manufacturing seats with a different configuration to fit the in-floor rails, but those rails have notches every inch or two for seat installation, and the overhead passenger service units (PSUs) aren't miserable to reconfigure either. The killer with seat pitch is that once you're past 30 rows, adding an inch to pitch means you lose a whole row, or two rows at 60.

That's also why airlines like having legroom seats available, since they let tall guys who would otherwise suffer and not really be able to get up for the entire 3h from San Juan to Miami on a Sunday evening pay some extra money to suffer a bit less, without sacrificing entire rows to improve every seat.

 

[jiml]

To bring it all back to 747, when was the first time you flew on a 747?

Wardair, in 1977, to one of many Florida destinations they served from Toronto.

https://simpleflying.com/wardair-boeing-747-fleet-history/

 

[MARC Rider]

The first, and only times, I've flown in a 747 was in 1989, on El Al, round-trip JFK - TLV. It was OK, enjoyed the El Al experience with everybody congregating in the aisles whoever the fasten seat belt sign was off. Which wasn't that often, as there seemed to be nonstop turbulence all the way across the Mediterranean. The food on the eastbound was catered by the same folks who do the kosher meal for Amtrak.

 

[west point]

Does the four-engined 747 have direct route advantages over ETOPS twins on any long haul routes?

Yes. 3 engine aircraft have an advantage over 2 engine, 4 engine have an advantage over 3 engine. Some routes from Australia and New Zeland do require 4 engine aircraft.

Now that was as of 2014.

 

[railiner]

To bring it all back to 747, when was the first time you flew on a 747?

When they went into service, the shortest (and cheapest) flight I found, was Canadian Pacific, from Montreal to Toronto. That flight continued on to Vancouver.
I splurged on First Class, scoring seat 1A, hoping that the fuselage design would allow a limited forward view of the takeoff from the frontmost window. Despite pressing my cheek against the window, it was still not possible to really see forward.
The consolation was access to the upper deck lounge…

 

[CaptPete 43]

The lucky people were the ones that enjoyed the first class meal in the lounge.

I never did, but the lounge used to be open on coast to coast flights with a self service bar. That was pretty good too.

 

[jis]

The lucky people were the ones that enjoyed the first class meal in the lounge.

I never did, but the lounge used to be open on coast to coast flights with a self service bar. That was pretty good too.

I did First Class twice Trans-Pacific on United using FF miles. Back in those days they served Champaign and Caviar soon after boarding! In addition I did Trans-Pac and Trans-Atlantic Connoisseur Class (Business Class) many times using various upgrades from Coach. The Connoisseur Class were mostly in a seat in the first row right hand side upstairs. The quieter neighborhood on the plane, both from engine and passenger noise. There was something a bit "intimate" about the upper deck atmosphere on a 747,, not something you get on the A380 upper deck.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Loved the 747, am decidedly meh about the so-called Dreamliner. Of course, that is mainly hypothetical post-retirement; my long haul flying has shrunk considerably!

The 787 is another aircraft that is truly groundbreaking from a technical perspective but kind of unimpressive from a coach passenger perspective.

I splurged on First Class, scoring seat 1A, hoping that the fuselage design would allow a limited forward view of the takeoff from the frontmost window. Despite pressing my cheek against the window, it was still not possible to really see forward.

That was my experience as well. It's true that it looks like you could see forward when looking at a 747 from the gate, but the angle and width of the interior fittings around the window prevent this. I'm not sure what people are talking about when they say they could see the runway and whatnot.

I never did, but the lounge used to be open on coast to coast flights with a self service bar. That was pretty good too.

If anyone still wants to visit an in-flight bar now is the time to do it. The in-flight bars that remain are on A380's operated by the ME3. There are also a few bar-like concepts on VS, QF, & KE. I would not recommend Korean Airlines lounges of any type and Virgin's A350 setup seems to be downgrade vs. the B787.

https://onemileatatime.com/guides/airplane-bars-lounges/

 

[Bob Dylan]

My first flight on a 747 was also to Hawaii on Braniff in First Class ( "Flying Colors", this one was Orange)out of DFW.( the trip home was on a United DC-10 in Coach, definitely a Comedown!)

Loved the Upstairs Lounge with the Spiral Staircase and the Strong Drinks, Good Food and the "Stews" continous Costume changes!

 

[Brian Battuello]

Okay, in rememberance, here's a list of my 747 experiences:

1970 - Going with my family to the outdoor rooftop viewing area to watch a 747 land at Phoenix Sky Harbor airport. They built the first jetway ever at the airport for it.

1976 - World Airways charter flight from Salt Lake City to London with a bunch of my high school friends. Single class, jammed full of teenagers. I remember the ground roll took forever.

1983 - Aforementioned Pan Am hop from LAX to SFO in first.

1996 - BA flight from SFO to LHR to meet my girlfriend's parents. Asked the gate if I could move to a window seat and they upgraded me to upstairs business. Nice service but the window was so far from the seat that you could hardly see out of it.

1999 - Tower Air from JFK to SFO. Airfare war with ticket around $100. Ancient bird falling apart inside. Pilots must have been 60 but looked 80. Never again.

Since then it has been mostly 767's, 777's and 340's. Haven't tried a 787 or 380.

 

[trainman74]

My first flight on a 747 was also to Hawaii on Braniff in First Class ( "Flying Colors", this one was Orange)out of DFW.

I've heard that Braniff's orange 747s were nicknamed "Great Pumpkins."

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

1999 - Tower Air from JFK to SFO. Airfare war with ticket around $100. Ancient bird falling apart inside. Pilots must have been 60 but looked 80. Never again.

You sent me down a Tower Air (not too deep) rabbit hole. According to some sources, on of their 747's became a hotel at Arlanda in Stockholm!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Since then it has been mostly 767's, 777's and 340's. Haven't tried a 787 or 380.

I've flown lots of B787's and A380's but very few B767's and no A340's. Other than 777's we seem to have the opposite experience.

 

[blueman271]

My first (of two) 747 flights was back in March 2013 from JFK to NRT.

 

[iplaybass]

I flew a 747 twice in my youth; JFK-rome, STL-HNL, both in coach before the airlines crammed seats into the economy section. For our COVID-delayed anniversary trip to Italy, my wife and I booked the connection in FRA just to sit on the upper deck. Item off the bucket list. Came back on a 787 in business. 787 was quiet and comfy.

The interior seat configuration is the individual airline's choice. They want to get the maximum number of seats possible in the economy section, and create the maximum paid demand to escape it.

 

[railiner]

That was my experience as well. It's true that it looks like you could see forward when looking at a 747 from the gate, but the angle and width of the interior fittings around the window prevent this. I'm not sure what people are talking about when they say they could see the runway and whatnot.

Agreed! Seeing the design from the outside led me to hope for that forward view. There is just too much of a gap between the inner and outer window panes to allow you to get close enough for that view.
Some airlines have provided cameras to let you see forward from the cockpit and other locations on the seatback entertainment screens…

 

[railiner]

There was something a bit "intimate" about the upper deck atmosphere on a 747,, not something you get on the A380 upper deck.

The earlier 747’s, were more “intimate “ than the later ones with the extended upper decks.
IIRC, the upper decks on the early ones, accessed by the spiral staircase did not contain any revenue seating, but were strictly configured as lounges.

 

[jiml]

I've heard that Braniff's orange 747s were nicknamed "Great Pumpkins."

Not just Braniff's:

 

[Roomette11]

Fun stories…my favorite part of this forum. I have three 747 experiences:

1969 (I think): my parents read in the Tribune about the first 747 landing at ORD. So we went to see it. I think it was an AA plane, but I might have it confused with my next encounter. I was more excited about the KLM and Braniff sitings. They were more colorful.

1971: my parents and my great grandfather took me to Disneyland (among other things). We flew on AA and I remember seeing the Grand Canyon from the coach lounge. I also remember being pleased I didn’t spill my Coke. As others have said, the plane wasn’t jammed full of seats. Coach was 3-4-2.

1978 ( I think): flew ORD-JFK on NW 004, which had arrived in Chicago from Tokyo. I believe it originated in Bangkok. At some point in the flight, the stewardess moved my brother and I to first class seats. I don’t remember why or if we were even told, but it probably had something to do with getting us unaccompanied minors off the plane first. It was cool; we got to walk up and down the stairs en route to our new seats.

I saw many 747s over the years, but by far my favorite was the UA 747SP they flew from Newark to Tokyo in the 90s. I think it was wider than it was long.

 

[Roomette11]

The 787 is another aircraft that is truly groundbreaking from a technical perspective but kind of unimpressive from a coach passenger perspective.

First 787 experience coming up In June. Booked something called Premium Plus. Hoping I can sleep much of the SFO-EWR red eye and maybe avoiding the unimpressive coach is a way to do that.

 

[Roomette11]

Some airlines have provided cameras to let you see forward from the cockpit and other locations on the seatback entertainment screens…

That’s fun! Never flew with anyone who offered that.

 

[Roomette11]

Okay, in rememberance, here's a list of my 747 experiences:

1970 - Going with my family to the outdoor rooftop viewing area to watch a 747 land at Phoenix Sky Harbor airport. They built the first jetway ever at the airport for it.

1976 - World Airways charter flight from Salt Lake City to London with a bunch of my high school friends. Single class, jammed full of teenagers. I remember the ground roll took forever.

1983 - Aforementioned Pan Am hop from LAX to SFO in first.

1996 - BA flight from SFO to LHR to meet my girlfriend's parents. Asked the gate if I could move to a window seat and they upgraded me to upstairs business. Nice service but the window was so far from the seat that you could hardly see out of it.

1999 - Tower Air from JFK to SFO. Airfare war with ticket around $100. Ancient bird falling apart inside. Pilots must have been 60 but looked 80. Never again.

Since then it has been mostly 767's, 777's and 340's. Haven't tried a 787 or 380.

What a diverse list! I think this pretty much covers the whole 747 spectrum. New. Old. Short flights . Long ones. Luxury. Steerage. Only box you can’t check is if you packed yourself in a box and Flying Tigers boarded you through that giant flip-up door on a 747F

 

[jis]

I saw many 747s over the years, but by far my favorite was the UA 747SP they flew from Newark to Tokyo in the 90s. I think it was wider than it was long.

I have flown on an SP. Pan Am flight from Tokyo to New York JFK, around 1980.

That’s fun! Never flew with anyone who offered that.

Lufthansa offers that on their -8is IIRC. I have flown in one of those a couple of times up front. I think most A380s have three cameras, forward looking from the nose, forward looking from the top of the vertical stabilizer and downward looking. You can select the channels on the AVOD channel selector.

 

[jiml]

I have flown on an SP. Pan Am flight from Tokyo to New York JFK, around 1980.

Lufthansa offers that on their -8is IIRC. I have flown in one of those a couple of times up front. I think most A380s have three cameras, forward looking from the nose, forward looking from the top of the vertical stabilizer and downward looking. You can select the channels on the AVOD channel selector.

A350s usually have cameras as well.