Fire impacts Coast Starlight (6/29/21)

[John Santos]

Does anyone know how many freight trains UP runs over the line every day? Rerouting those trains is just as difficult as rerouting the CS. (Except commodities are a little more tolerant of 10mph detours than people are.) Since this appears to be the only viable north-south rail route on the West coast, there are probably many millions of dollars at stake every day the line is closed, which is I'm sure a huge motivation for UP to repair it as quickly as possible. Once rebuilt, will there be a huge freight backlog that will interfere with restoring passenger service?

 

[Bob Dylan]

I’m sure they’ll let the pax know when they know. All they told the media is that they’re looking into options.

Redacted.

 

[zephyr17]

Does anyone know how many freight trains UP runs over the line every day? Rerouting those trains is just as difficult as rerouting the CS. (Except commodities are a little more tolerant of 10mph detours than people are.) Since this appears to be the only viable north-south rail route on the West coast, there are probably many millions of dollars at stake every day the line is closed, which is I'm sure a huge motivation for UP to repair it as quickly as possible. Once rebuilt, will there be a huge freight backlog that will interfere with restoring passenger service?

Per info at Trainorders and Altamont Press, UP runs about 8 trains a day over the line. 2 a day are being permitted to detour over the Inside Gateway by BNSF, the rest of the traffic is being detoured via Ogden, UT.

Nothing appears to be being detoured over the very slow (10 mph), clearance-restricted CORP Siskiyou Line.

Perhaps clearing backups is the reason why UP projects the line will reopen on 9/1 per their website but Amtrak isn't restarting until a week later on 9/8?

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Per info at Trainorders and Altamont Press, UP runs about 8 trains a day over the line. 2 a day are being permitted to detour over the Inside Gateway by BNSF, the rest of the traffic is being detoured via Ogden, UT.

Nothing appears to be being detoured over the very slow (10 mph), clearance-restricted CORP Siskiyou Line.

Perhaps clearing backups is the reason why UP projects the line will reopen on 9/1 per their website but Amtrak isn't restarting until a week later on 9/8?

My guess is making sure trains pass over it safely ... rather lose cargo than people if the bridge collapses.

 

[zephyr17]

My guess is making sure trains pass over it safely ... rather lose cargo than people if the bridge collapses.

Well, maybe, but clearing a freight backlog without having to allow for Amtrak is a nice side benefit that I am sure UP wouldn't mind.

 

[Willbridge]

This situation is a reminder that the railway image of reliability in all sorts of situations was established when there were more alternative routings. Fifty years ago the Siskiyou Line could have handled some diverted freight traffic as could the Modoc Line. Now it's either the Cascade Line or squeezing into the Inside Gateway or hundreds of extra miles through Idaho.

Note that this map inset also shows the OC&E line that served an area east of US97 now on fire.

 

[Irelandvegas65]

I’ve been reading along and have mild concerns. Honestly not sure if I should or not at this point: my train departs Seattle oct 4th to EMY. It’s the second leg of Empire/CS/Zephyr back to Chicago. We have bedrooms in each segment. My alternatives would be to fly? Suck it up , ride the bus bridge? Reschedule? I think for now I will wait it out. What do you all think?

 

[Danib62]

I think by October it seems like you should be fine. Definitely take a wait and see approach.

 

[Ryan]

Concur. We'll have a better idea of what 10/4 will look like in a few weeks.

 

[jis]

I’ve been reading along and have mild concerns. Honestly not sure if I should or not at this point: my train departs Seattle oct 4th to EMY. It’s the second leg of Empire/CS/Zephyr back to Chicago. We have bedrooms in each segment. My alternatives would be to fly? Suck it up , ride the bus bridge? Reschedule? I think for now I will wait it out. What do you all think?

I would wait it out at least past Sept 8, the currently announced resume date.

If I was doing this, all in all, if push comes to shove and a bus bridge is available I would opt for that. All the normally daytime run scenic part are elsewhere and are worth enjoying. The price one pays is one night of discomfort. But then again I will choose as much rail as possible given a choice.

But of course flying is always an alternative option, but involves one hotel night at EMY. Not bad overall if flying does not phase you.

I suppose you could reschedule, but there is no guarantee that something else will not crop up at the new scheduled date(s).

 

[Irelandvegas65]

I appreciate the enouragement for me and the rest of us who have a trip planned on CS between now and this Fall. For me, im am glad I am not one of the ones much closer to the announced "in service" date of the bridge, best wishes to everyone! For what its worth, my itinerary is: EB from Chicago, two nights in Seattle, CS to EMY, Two Nights in San Francisco, CZ to Glenwood, Two nights in Aspen, then back to CHI. Back when planning, the routes were not everyday, and its a good pace with stops in cities along the way. Only other ride on Amtrak was back in high school CHI to Dallas, coach. I am excited about my Bedroom. Ive got lots of questions but those are for another forum!

 

[George Harris]

This situation is a reminder that the railway image of reliability in all sorts of situations was established when there were more alternative routings. Fifty years ago the Siskiyou Line could have handled some diverted freight traffic as could the Modoc Line. Now it's either the Cascade Line or squeezing into the Inside Gateway or hundreds of extra miles through Idaho.

Fifty years ago the Siskiyou Line had no more clearance than it does now. It may have had faster speed limits, but that would be all. Operative word here is "some" diverted freight traffic. If your traffic was limited to maximum size "Plate C" freight cars and single level passenger cars no problem. Piggyback and autoracks would not have made it even then and would have to take one of the long detours. Now that much of freight is in double stacks, autoracks and hi-cube cars most freight would have to detour. Throw the low speeds, and track quality that goes with it, simply forget the Siskiyou line is even there for this issue.

 

[Willbridge]

I would wait it out at least past Sept 8, the currently announced resume date.

If I was doing this, all in all, if push comes to shove and a bus bridge is available I would opt for that. All the normally daytime run scenic part are elsewhere and are worth enjoying. The price one pays is one night of discomfort. But then again I will choose as much rail as possible given a choice.

But of course flying is always an alternative option, but involves one hotel night at EMY. Not bad overall if flying does not phase you.

I suppose you could reschedule, but there is no guarantee that something else will not crop up at the new scheduled date(s).

Not guaranteed with global warming but October at Sea-Tac marks the start of the fog season. Our Gray Line of Portland drivers paid by mileage loved it -- high pay and easy work. Airline employees load the bus at Portland International with surly and tired air passengers, announce that smoking is prohibited anywhere on the bus in Oregon, minutes later you're on the Interstate Bridge, "forget" to announce that smoking was okay in Washington, 70-75 mph on I-5 in the night with passengers half-asleep, airline employees unload the bus. Reverse process back to Portland.

If planning to fly in the fog season out of Portland or Seattle the best flights are in the morning from cities where the plane arrived the night before.

After the fog season come the winter storms. I have fond memories of the Army flying me on a Seattle>San Francisco flight in January which went out over the ocean to try to avoid bad weather. The businessman next to me let me eat his dinner because he was afraid he'd lose it. I was willing to chance that by eating his and mine. In those days airline food was better than army chow.

 

[neroden]

Fifty years ago the Siskiyou Line had no more clearance than it does now. It may have had faster speed limits, but that would be all. Operative word here is "some" diverted freight traffic. If your traffic was limited to maximum size "Plate C" freight cars and single level passenger cars no problem.

Sigh...it's still a better passenger route than the current line, because Medford and Ashland are both *much* larger and attract *far* more visitors than Klamath Falls. Unfortunately it was allowed to deteriorate far below passenger speeds. If Oregon, Washington, and California ever became serious about promoting train travel between California and the Pacific Northwest, (or for that matter if Oregon got serious about providing ways to get to Medford) it would make sense to rehabilitate it as the main passenger route. There is no sign of that sort of political will yet, though.

 

[danasgoodstuff]

Sigh...it's still a better passenger route than the current line, because Medford and Ashland are both *much* larger and attract *far* more visitors than Klamath Falls. Unfortunately it was allowed to deteriorate far below passenger speeds. If Oregon, Washington, and California ever became serious about promoting train travel between California and the Pacific Northwest, (or for that matter if Oregon got serious about providing ways to get to Medford) it would make sense to rehabilitate it as the main passenger route. There is no sign of that sort of political will yet, though.

Even when passenger trains ran this way, they were far slower than going through K Falls. Siskiyou Summit is going to be a bear for any train. But ideally, sure route one train this way and another thru K Falls and Bend... Next to Medford, Bend is probably the biggest should have service location in OR. Unless you think there should be service to the coast, but that's a different can of worms.

 

[zephyr17]

Even if they brought the track condition up, the line would still be very circuitous and slow with its 1870s alignment through constant hills. There is a reason why the SP opened the much straighter and faster Cascade Line in the 1920s. The Siskiyou Line may look like it parallels I5, but it actually wanders off into a bunch of side canyons to keep the gradient down.

To be really be competitive, a whole new alignment would need to be built through Southern Oregon reaching the same points, Roseburg, Grants Pass, Medford and Ashland.

And even if Oregon subsidized the building of such a new passenger line, they might not see the need to continue it past Ashland over difficult Siskiyou Summit into California.

 

[danasgoodstuff]

Even if they brought the track condition up, the line would still be very circuitous and slow with its 1870s alignment through constant hills. There is a reason why the SP opened the much straighter and faster Cascade Line in the 1920s. The Siskiyou Line may look like it parallels I5, but it actually wanders off into a bunch of side canyons to keep the gradient down.

To be really be competitive, a whole new alignment would need to be built through Southern Oregon reaching the same points, Roseburg, Grants Pass, Medford and Ashland.

And even if Oregon subsidized the building of such a new passenger line, they might not see the need to continue it past Ashland over difficult Siskiyou Summit into California.

If it just went as far as Ashland it could be themed to Elizabethan theatre! Running a railway inside a railway...

 

[Cal]

I don't think there will be sleepers. They were blocked out in the reservation system and that way they can also omit the dining car.

They did re-issue my Business Class ticket for each side of the bus bridge.

The "amenities" list in the website does not mention food.

If this is the case I want to cancel my August trip. If anyone can confirm/deny that’d be nice

 

[west point]

There are many variables in the rebuilding. Weather and any additional fires are the prime and the most unknown. Either one could cause evacuations of the work site. And hopefully no fire would damage the work equipment especially the cranes. A work accident is another slight possibility. Reconstruction material and the supply chain could also be impacted. Just imagine for example that availability of enough class 10 bolts is a problem. Supply chain problems are all over without rhyme or reason.

Then again everything might come in under schedule and UP finishes in mid August.

IMO Amtrak is using the 9/07 date to prepare passengers for possible UP not finishing until 9/07. By mid August we may see that date change. A possibility of any restart date might be without notice if UP says at a morning meeting that Amtrak can run Starlight thru tonight. That might give Amtrak enough time to notify C&R crews to report.

 

[TinCan782]

Then again everything might come in under schedule and UP finishes in mid August.

IMO Amtrak is using the 9/07 date to prepare passengers for possible UP not finishing until 9/07. By mid August we may see that date change. A possibility of any restart date might be without notice if UP says at a morning meeting that Amtrak can run Starlight thru tonight. That might give Amtrak enough time to notify C&R crews to report.

Regardless of actual completion date, I would expect that UP would not allow passenger trains until there has been some amount of freight traffic run over the bridge. Hence, UP opening the bridge on September 1 and Amtrak resuming service on September 8.

 

[jruff001]

If Oregon, Washington, and California ever became serious about promoting train travel between California and the Pacific Northwest, (or for that matter if Oregon got serious about providing ways to get to Medford) it would make sense to rehabilitate it as the main passenger route. There is no sign of that sort of political will yet, though.

Why would there be? There are dozens of flights per day between CA and the PNW that only take around two hours.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

If this is the case I want to cancel my August trip. If anyone can confirm/deny that’d be nice

I saw at least one post on FB where it was confirmed that sleeper pax will have rooms on both sides of the bus bridge.

 

[Oreius]

I know this sounds sordid, but I’m actually doing personal “Train Prayers.” My Coast Starlight trip in mid-September is THE pinnacle of a 16-day Alaska and West Coast Vacation for me and my parents. I bought my parents their own Bedroom with my AGR points and paid cash for my own Roomette. This is to be their first overnight train trip. At least twice a week, I hold evening “Train Talks” with my parents to get them psyched and to also know what to expect. (I drive them nuts, though) I got them their own Bedroom so they have their own private potty and shower. We’re spending a few days in Alaska, including 2 days at a cabin in the boondocks at the base of Mount McKinley. Then, we’re flying back to Seattle for a couple days to sightsee and visit my cousin. Then, it’s on the Starlight. Once we get to Los Angeles, we’re spending the remainder of the trip at Anaheim and Disneyland. Remember, I have said in previous posts that my parents are jealous because I travel First-Class like Snoopy. So, I’m saying prayers that this train trip is not cancelled!!

 

[WWW]

Post to be posted - Deleted - - - Moving on.

On another note:
Oreius hope your Alaska travels have some portion on the Alaska RR in GOLD STAR class in the bi-level dome cars - - -

 

[TrackWalker]

Location of UP bridge.
Siskiyou line heads off to the Northwest from Weed, CA.



UP Update 7/12