Folding bike fiasco on long distance trains

[calwatch]

http://bikeportland.org/2013/12/03/citing-nonexistent-policy-amtrak-workers-haul-away-portlanders-bikes-98029

Amtrak apologized Tuesday to a Portlander traveling through Texas who said train workers woke her up and yelled at her for having a folding bicycle as carry-on luggage — something the national rail service allows.

"Unfortunately, we have found that Amtrak employees at all levels tend to be unaware of the company's policy's regarding bikes, folding and otherwise," Elly Blue, a Portland-based writer who is on a business trip with her partner Joe Biel, wrote in an email. (Blue and Biel didn't end up losing their bikes or needing to check them, though they were taken away overnight.)

I have experienced the situation where Amtrak employees sometimes make up rules on the spot to justify decisions. But generally those are more minor than these.

 

[amamba]

That is ridiculously annoying.

 

[Nathanael]

It is completely unacceptable for workers to harass passengers because the workers don't know their company's own policies. Amtrak needs to get on top of this right away and start retraining people.

 

[Steve4031]

The employees involved don't need to be retrained. They need to be suspended without pay and written up for dereliction if duty. There duty is to serve passengers and problem solve. The media response is inadequate. Amtrak is in cya mode.

 

[Ryan]

Amtrak's Achilles Heel, strikes again. Until the system can be rid of these clowns, Amtrak cannot be fully successful.

 

[Shortline]

Saw this scenario first hand, guy changing from one of the Eagles, to the HF. Watched the guy get harassed at the station for having the bike inside. He folded it, and security was ok then. When boarding the train, conductor boarding my car saw him go past, said "hey you can't bring that.....explained it was a folding bike and he had a letter from Amtrak explaining the policy....conductor basically told him I don't care what you have you aren't bringing it on my train....they must have worked it out, saw him get off at Ardmore with his bike....apparently this guy has dealt with this extensively across the system....

 

[Ryan]

Oh look! A passage from the Blue Book!

Now I'm usually the first person that steps up and says "can't rush to judgement, we don't know all the facts", but even I'm ready to jump on the "Fire this guy" bandwagon. Anytime you do something that's directly in opposition to something in the friggin' book that you're supposed to a) know and b) have on board to refer to, forget it, you're out.

The same fate should apply to any LSA that claims that the 3rd pax in a room has to pay for their meals.

This isn't rocket science here, folks.

 

[amamba]

I agree with you Ryan. It is beyond frustrating that we have un-trained employees like this. It is this kind of negative publicity - and negative experiences of pax - that hurts the amtrak image.

 

[WinNix]

This issue is near and dear to me - I have brought full sized and folding bikes on the train before. I went out of my way to purchase my folding bike specifically to fit within the luggage rules. I read up on the policies and dimensions prior to my purchase (same info as Ryan posted above). I did this because not only Amtrak, but some bus lines have the same/similar rules about considering them luggage. No one has ever hassled me about my folding bike on the train. I do get questions from curious strangers, but never hassled.

In May, I heard that Amtrak was considering charging money to bring a full sized bike on the Surfliner, so I created the thread below asking others what they thought. Because they are dimensionally considered "luggage" in the rules, there would be no charge for them. The thread linked below contains several more links and snippets of the rules amtrak uses for folding bikes.

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/55062-surfliner-bicycle-policy/?hl=bicycle

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

It's too bad RR pensions are on the line if you screw up like this .. Might give some " motivation " to want to keep your job and its perks .........

some facts I have gathered . there was a bag car ....... FULL STOP ...

if there was ever a doubt as a conductor or what not if a object was Allowed onboard or on train . Shove it in the mostly un used bag car ..... En route RTFM, then act ...

tell the pax they got lucky and I learnd a new rule OR Let him or her decide Take the goods out of the bag car at the next Practical stop or Leave it in till the pax stop .

.... A lack of planning on my part should NEVER make a mess on your part........The Pax had documentation . end of story ......

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I honestly don't understand the calls for retraining.

You don't become an obnoxious prick simply because you weren't trained properly.

 

[SarahZ]

I see it day after day. We receive comprehensive training and have multiple job aids, but people are still unaware of certain procedures because they either 1) forgot, whether because they don't complete that task often or have a poor memory or 2) didn't pay attention or don't care. This happens the most often when we have a new policy/procedure and/or a change to that policy/procedure. It takes a while to work out the kinks (i.e. the people who don't catch on quickly).

I'm not excusing them; I simply don't think that hammering it home over and over and over again will change the bad apples. The good apples get frustrated because omg-we-get-it, and the bad apples continue to screw up and make life harder for the good apples who have to calm the customers and fix the mistakes.

 

[SarahZ]

I should clarify - I believe these employees should receive a personal note/training session. I just meant blanket re-training won't do much good. I also wouldn't blame Amtrak. They probably did train them originally and the employees forgot/didn't care.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Whomever does the Training has Alot to do with it also! Ive seen Newbie OBS Trained by Masters that made Crack Train Hands and Others that had a Lazy/Uncaring Trainer that was just Drawing a Check or Hanging On Until Retirement and they Ended Up Not being Worth a Darn!! Applies in any Job! Poor Supervision and Management of Employees is Another Factor!

Memos and e-mails don't Train Staff or Make for Good Customer Service!

 

[PaulM]

I honestly don't understand the calls for retraining.

You don't become an obnoxious prick simply because you weren't trained properly.

It's called bicycle derangement syndrome and is protected by ADA rules.

My wife and I probably have the dubious distinction of more Amtrak miles with folding bikes than anyone else; and I've only been hassled once. Boarding a sleeper on the SWC in LAX, the SCA suggested I stow them in the transdorm, the next car up, which made a lot of sense. Unfortunately I ran into the conductor who said no way and he didn't care what it was. I just stood there smiling waiting for the conductor who had created a problem for himself to solve it. He finally relented and had us put them in the ski locker.

Now once I was traveling with a folder and my wife had a full size bike with a bike ticket. The newbie (asst?) conductor told her to put it in the overhead rack. When I pointed to the rule about not in the overhead rack, she said that only applied to folding bikes. Duh!

FWIW, I agree that "lack of training" in this type of situation is nothing more than a euphemism for a bad attitude. But I'm not as quick to fire someone for these customer service offenses. Something like docking pay equal to the cost of the transportation certificate given to the victim might accomplish the needed "training" a no cost to Amtrak.

 

[Nathanael]

I honestly don't understand the calls for retraining.

You don't become an obnoxious prick simply because you weren't trained properly.

Normally, I'd say, sack 'em -- you may have seen some of my other comments.

The thing is, the reports from some people with folding bicycles seemed to imply that this wasn't just happening with "a few bad apples". If it's happening all *over* the system, that indicates that there was something wrong with the training process. The worst problems of this sort happen when *lower management* is telling employees stuff which is wrong -- you can get dozens of employees following what their boss told them to, rather than company policy.

But PaulM says it's only happening in a few places, so maybe it is just a few people.

 

[Steve4031]

Whomever does the Training has Alot to do with it also! Ive seen Newbie OBS Trained by Masters that made Crack Train Hands and Others that had a Lazy/Uncaring Trainer that was just Drawing a Check or Hanging On Until Retirement and they Ended Up Not being Worth a Darn!! Applies in any Job! Poor Supervision and Management of Employees is Another Factor!

My gf and I listened to a bad apple sca train a new sca on 21. The expression on her face was priceless as she heard the nonsense coming out of the veteran's mouth.

 

[PaulM]

But PaulM says it's only happening in a few places, so maybe it is just a few people.

We've literally been from San Diego to NY, Pacific Northwest to Florida, and LA to MN with them and have been hassled only that once.

My all time favorite Amphoto.

 

[AG1]

H-Room and Handicap bikes .

Edited. Caption for photo. It was an attempt at humor, people !

 

[Bob Dylan]

H-Room and Handicap bikes ?

Anyone can Book the H Room if it's Not Booked within 2 Weeks of Departure! If you're Handicapped it's the Same Amount of Points or Dollars as a Roomette, if Not it's the Going Bedroom Bucket and Lowest Rail Fare Bucket when Booked!

 

[Nathanael]

My gf and I listened to a bad apple sca train a new sca on 21. The expression on her face was priceless as she heard the nonsense coming out of the veteran's mouth.

Sounds to me like this is the root problem here. The *old* bad apples need to be removed because they're spoiling other apples, so to speak.

 

[PaulM]

H-Room and Handicap bikes ?

Anyone can Book the H Room if it's Not Booked within 2 Weeks of Departure! If you're Handicapped it's the Same Amount of Points or Dollars as a Roomette, if Not it's the Going Bedroom Bucket and Lowest Rail Fare Bucket when Booked!

In this case (on the southbound CoNO) the H room was vacant and the SCA attendant has us put them there out of the way.

We then biked from Brookhaven to Mobile and back to Hammond. Departing Hammond on the return trip, the H room was occupied and the community luggage rack full, the SCA attendant had us put them in the vestibule by one of the doors. Every time that door needed to be opened at a stop, he would move it to the other side. It's experiences like this that make me cringe when I hear blanket derogatory statements about OBS personnel.

 

[the Other Mike]

Get rid of bike on the train...... :wacko:

 

[Ryan]

Uh, why?

 

[Steve4031]

Folding bikes are to be counted the same as luggage. They are no more in the way then two roll aboard suitcases. The sca would have been moving them too.