Food Preparation on Long Distance Trains

[PVD]

The FDA warnings required might not include the salmon because it is not served raw, and they do not serve it in a style that is considered undercooked. Chalk it up "strange but Federal" ?

 

[Green Maned Lion]

1) Amtrak has been using Sous Vide since simplified dining began, or shortly thereafter.

2) Amtraks burger is not the worst; bobs big boy is worse, and I have had much worse than that various places.

Hardees, however, especially their thick burger, is pretty good in my mind. Its not really a burger; its a grilled meatloaf sandwhich, but it is good. I dont like their thin burger (which is a burger) but my wife says it reminds her of what Burger King used to be (positive description). It certainly isnt worse than Amtraks.

 

[Skyline]

1) Amtrak has been using Sous Vide since simplified dining began, or shortly thereafter.

2) Amtraks burger is not the worst; bobs big boy is worse, and I have had much worse than that various places.

Hardees, however, especially their thick burger, is pretty good in my mind. Its not really a burger; its a grilled meatloaf sandwhich, but it is good. I dont like their thin burger (which is a burger) but my wife says it reminds her of what Burger King used to be (positive description). It certainly isnt worse than Amtraks.

Does anyone know...

1) If Amtrak has adopted Sous Vide for certain entrees, I wonder if the meats or other items are seasoned and vacuum sealed by the purveyor or commissary--or are they done on board? In my experience, that is a procedure that could affect quality and consistency, therefore should already be done before its brought on board.

2) What kind of Sous Vide training does Amtrak provide for its DC staff?

3) Are entrees started in the water bath from frozen, fresh, or from defrosted?

4) Are entrees like steaks, seafood, poultry, pork finished "to order" on the grill after the Sous Vide process? Please, please...not served directly from the vacuum-sealed pouch right out of the water, or microwaved!

Properly done, I think Sous Vide is a huge step forward for commercial food service, and could be for Amtrak. Done incorrectly, it could actually be a negative.

 

[zepherdude]

If you're in coach you're more than welcome to have a side salad instead, but it will cost $3.

The side salad is $3.50 these days.

Must be a HUGE salad!

 

[cpotisch]

1) Amtrak has been using Sous Vide since simplified dining began, or shortly thereafter.

2) Amtraks burger is not the worst; bobs big boy is worse, and I have had much worse than that various places.

Hardees, however, especially their thick burger, is pretty good in my mind. Its not really a burger; its a grilled meatloaf sandwhich, but it is good. I dont like their thin burger (which is a burger) but my wife says it reminds her of what Burger King used to be (positive description). It certainly isnt worse than Amtraks.

Does anyone know...

1) If Amtrak has adopted Sous Vide for certain entrees, I wonder if the meats or other items are seasoned and vacuum sealed by the purveyor or commissary--or are they done on board? In my experience, that is a procedure that could affect quality and consistency, therefore should already be done before its brought on board.

2) What kind of Sous Vide training does Amtrak provide for its DC staff?

3) Are entrees started in the water bath from frozen, fresh, or from defrosted?

4) Are entrees like steaks, seafood, poultry, pork finished "to order" on the grill after the Sous Vide process? Please, please...not served directly from the vacuum-sealed pouch right out of the water, or microwaved!

Properly done, I think Sous Vide is a huge step forward for commercial food service, and could be for Amtrak. Done incorrectly, it could actually be a negative.

The main advantage of Sous Vide is that you can set an incredibly precise cooking temperature. Certain chemical reactions and processes in the food occur at very specific temperatures, so the food can be incredible juicy/tender/flavorful. Giving it a thorough cook on the grill would effectively defeat the purpose of Sous Vide. A quick sear would be fine, but the purpose of Sous Vide is to cook evenly at very precise temperatures.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

If you're in coach you're more than welcome to have a side salad instead, but it will cost $3.

The side salad is $3.50 these days.

Must be a HUGE salad!

Most Side Salads go for $4-$5 on restaurant menus. They vary in quality but I've seen some in that price range that were no better than Amtrak's basic side salad. And of course I've seen some in that range that are much better in quality.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

If the salmon is sourced raw then why is it not included in the FDA thorough cooking warnings list?

Raw fish is call sushi or ceviche.

Some types of Fish can be eaten raw so no FDA warning needed.

 

[Skyline]

1) Amtrak has been using Sous Vide since simplified dining began, or shortly thereafter.

2) Amtraks burger is not the worst; bobs big boy is worse, and I have had much worse than that various places.

Hardees, however, especially their thick burger, is pretty good in my mind. Its not really a burger; its a grilled meatloaf sandwhich, but it is good. I dont like their thin burger (which is a burger) but my wife says it reminds her of what Burger King used to be (positive description). It certainly isnt worse than Amtraks.

Does anyone know...

1) If Amtrak has adopted Sous Vide for certain entrees, I wonder if the meats or other items are seasoned and vacuum sealed by the purveyor or commissary--or are they done on board? In my experience, that is a procedure that could affect quality and consistency, therefore should already be done before its brought on board.

2) What kind of Sous Vide training does Amtrak provide for its DC staff?

3) Are entrees started in the water bath from frozen, fresh, or from defrosted?

4) Are entrees like steaks, seafood, poultry, pork finished "to order" on the grill after the Sous Vide process? Please, please...not served directly from the vacuum-sealed pouch right out of the water, or microwaved!

Properly done, I think Sous Vide is a huge step forward for commercial food service, and could be for Amtrak. Done incorrectly, it could actually be a negative.

The main advantage of Sous Vide is that you can set an incredibly precise cooking temperature. Certain chemical reactions and processes in the food occur at very specific temperatures, so the food can be incredible juicy/tender/flavorful. Giving it a thorough cook on the grill would effectively defeat the purpose of Sous Vide. A quick sear would be fine, but the purpose of Sous Vide is to cook evenly at very precise temperatures.

I agree. A relatively brief "finishing it on the grill" is what you want to do for most entrees. To give it a better flavor and appearance. A steak, for example, is likely to be rare or medium rare with minimal grilling post Sous Vide. But some folks don't want their steaks to moo and their's will need to be grilled longer. It's a trade-off.

Also, I find chicken a little off-putting right after Sous Vide. It may need more grilling, broiling, or baking than beef -- for aesthetic reasons, and possibly health reasons. But done properly, Sous Vide can make chicken better.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

If the salmon is sourced raw then why is it not included in the FDA thorough cooking warnings list?

Raw fish is call sushi or ceviche.Some types of Fish can be eaten raw so no FDA warning needed.

It's common to see the FDA warning on menus for fish. My guess is that the previous fish dish was pre-cooked (the way DA described), and the warning was missed on the updated menu.
Also... Raw fish is not called sushi. Raw fish is a common ingredient in sushi, but they are 2 very different things. I love sushi, but do not care for raw fish.

 

[PVD]

http://www.bulletprooffoodnyc.com/bulletlessblog/2015/10/28/menus-need-warnings-by-january-1-2016

a decent explanation from an industry source

 

[Palmetto]

GML, you'll have to come down to the Lone Star State and join us Texas who swear by Whataburger!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

What the issue could be is that maybe the crew left it too long in the steam table. But I assure you, no boiling of anything on that grill top. God..boiled sausage sounds puke inducing.

Yeah it could definitely be caused by a steam warmer. I don't normally eat breakfast at oh dark thirty so that makes sense. Flavor is really the only thing sausage has going for it, so when you replace that flavor with water/steam it is kind of disgusting.

I've triple checked the service guide and although it doesn't say it's raw, it doesn't say it's precooked, which with the other wording leads me to believe it's raw.

It could be an oversight or it could be smoked or wet cured in some other way.

If the salmon is sourced raw then why is it not included in the FDA thorough cooking warnings list?

Raw fish is call sushi or ceviche. Some types of Fish can be eaten raw so no FDA warning needed.

The FDA warning doesn't prevent anyone from serving or consuming fish raw, it simply warns you that there may be consequences if it wasn't raised and prepared properly.

Also... Raw fish is not called sushi. Raw fish is a common ingredient in sushi, but they are 2 very different things. I love sushi, but do not care for raw fish.

Sushi can be all sorts of things. It's a vague term that can include everything from raw fish and rice to fried seafood and even veggie rolls. Raw fish by itself is called sashimi.

 

[cpotisch]

Technically speaking (not commonly speaking), ‘sushi’ actually just refers to that type of rice. ‘Sushi rice’ a.k.a shari is a type of vinegared white rice. So sushi can technically include just about anything, so long as it has that rice.

Now, in the common/modern sense of the word, sushi refers to the combination of sushi rice + seaweed + seafood.

Sashimi always refers to raw fish in and of itself.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[AcrossTheOcean]

A few minutes ago the cooking hostess on one of my local TV news broadcasts showed how to mix portioned omelet ingredients into a Ziploc baggie, store them in the fridge and cook them in boiling water as needed. She explained it was some French cooking technique many restaurants actually use. The omelet looked really good and I wondered if that was how Amtrak serves theirs.....

It is possible. When I worked food service, we bought eggs for scrambling pre-cracked in bags and boiled them in the bag. Later the establishment switched to raw eggs and had someone crack them all. There wasn't much difference in the quality of the eggs. They aren't going to be "Grade A" eggs like you get in the supermarket in either case.

 

[KmH]

I don't know what 'grade' eggs Amtrak uses but their Food Facts pages say they use pasteurized whole shell eggs produced by cage-free chickens.

http://www.amtrakfoodfacts.com/restimg2/force/template/1/Amtrak__Food_Facts/w459/h337/AMFF-FALL-2017-01.pdf

 

[Triley]

I don't know what 'grade' eggs Amtrak uses but their Food Facts pages say they use pasteurized whole shell eggs eggs produced by cage-free chickens.

http://www.amtrakfoodfacts.com/restimg2/force/template/1/Amtrak__Food_Facts/w459/h337/AMFF-FALL-2017-01.pdf

Do a little research and your should find out the brand! It's basically the most popular brand for food service use.
Also, AA grade.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Amtrak Forum mobile app

 

[tricia]

I'm something of an egg snob. (Raise my own, to sell at farm market, using fancy no-GMO, no-soy feed.) And to my taste, Amtrak eggs aren't as good as my own, but aren't bad.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

GML, you'll have to come down to the Lone Star State and join us Texas who swear by Whataburger!

YAY! You cannot argue with Whataburger especially at 4 in the morning!

 

[jmx153]

There is a program on PBS Television called "America's Heartland" and they did a story about food preparation on Amtrak:

https://youtu.be/r9GEKalLOTc

This was originally aired in 2009, so Amtrak's food prep has probably changed from what is shown in this program. It does include some comments by Amtrak's executive chef , the director of food & beverage, a little bit of footage from a meal service on a PPC, some food prep in a Superliner kitchen, and stocking the train before a trip at the Los Angeles commissary. Short, but overall a nice little bit of behind the scenes footage.

For those interested: The episode is from season 5 #14 and other stories in that episode showed food prep for airlines and cruise ships for a little comparison.

 

[StriderGDM]

I'm something of an egg snob. (Raise my own, to sell at farm market, using fancy no-GMO, no-soy feed.) And to my taste, Amtrak eggs aren't as good as my own, but aren't bad.

Fresh eggs are amazing.

I've started to work on my fried eggs and omelettes and finding how poorly I've cooked them in the past!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

GML, you'll have to come down to the Lone Star State and join us Texas who swear by Whataburger!

YAY! You cannot argue with Whataburger especially at 4 in the morning!

We might need to pump the breaks a bit on the Whataburger hype train. From what I can tell fans mainly praise the food because it's open all night and they were too tired/drunk/stoned to realize they were binging on burnt stringy meat, flavorless processed cheese, and nutrition free iceberg cellulose. The chicken sandwich is okay, some of the specialty sandwiches are alright, and the fries are good when served fresh, but in all honesty most of what Whataburger serves doesn't come close to living up the level of hype it gets.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I often agree with DAs points in his posts, but he's totally wrong about the National Burger of Texas, Whataburger!

The current Mushroom and Swiss Burger special is outstanding as is the Patty Melt!( I haven't been drunk or stoned in years!)

Next thing you know someone will be knocking Dairy Queen, the Clubhouse/Hangout spot for Rural Folks all over!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I often agree with DAs points in his posts, but he's totally wrong about the National Burger of Texas, Whataburger! The current Mushroom and Swiss Burger special is outstanding as is the Patty Melt!( I haven't been drunk or stoned in years!)

Outstanding how? Compared to what?

I happen to enjoy Chester's burgers myself, and here are some specific reasons why...

+The meat is fresh, high quality, and cooked to order.

+The buns are fresh, tasty, and perfectly toasted.

+Nothing is frozen, precooked, or warmed before ordered.

+They use full sized tomato slices (no heels only burgers).

+Toppings are applied correctly 99% of the time.

+The ranch sauce is freshly made and handed out freely.

+A fresh medium-cooked double cheeseburger from Chester's is within fifty cents of a generic Whatameal.

Whataburger fans always rave about the "special" sandwiches, probably because those are the only items that come straight from the grill. Everything else risks being served stale and lukewarm. The main issue I have with their specialty sandwiches is that they overcook the meat and drench their onions (Patty Melt), peppers (Monterrey & Green Chili), and mushrooms (Swiss) in cooking oil. This floods the wrapper and bag with grease and clogs your arteries with flavorless fat. If we're going to drench my sandwich in extra fat can we at least pick something with a bit of flavor?

Next thing you know someone will be knocking Dairy Queen, the Clubhouse/Hangout spot for Rural Folks all over!

Dairy Queen indoctrinated me when I was too young to know any better and now it has an aura of nostalgia that is hard to cut through objectively.

 

[Maverickstation]

Back to Food Prep on Amtrak, the Food Fact site, answers many of the questions,inclusing what is made off-site via sous-vide:

http://www.amtrakfoodfacts.com/restimg2/force/template/1/Amtrak__Food_Facts/w459/h337/AMFF-FALL-2017-33.pdf

As for the bacon, yes,it is the pre-cookedtype just like you can but at the grocery store:

http://www.amtrakfoodfacts.com/restimg2/force/template/1/Amtrak__Food_Facts/w459/h337/AMFF-FALL-2017-13.pdf

Ken

 

[KmH]

Sous-vide

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sous-vide