Freight Derailment disrupts Capitol Limited 2/3/23

[Rover]

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/exper...alth-impacts-chemical-spill/story?id=97235766

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

THE BBC World News website today has a short video of the meeting, followed by what seems like a fairly comprehensive article on the reactions of the townspeople to the situation and to NS not coming to the meeting.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

https://apnews.com/article/ohio-train-derailment-bcc6198dfbde42feefdeca8f24ccaea8

This reminds me that I saw a 'freakout' post on another, non-rail, forum going on about the dead animals, etc, trying to figure out where I saw that, but I keep seeing more and more stories about how bad the chemical spill was.

 

[Palmland]

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/exper...alth-impacts-chemical-spill/story?id=97235766

Good analysis that takes the hype out of all this.

And allow me a curmudgeonly comment- why do the news reports refer to the NS as a train company and not railroad?

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

What needs to be done to assure people it’s safe. The government has said it’s safe to return. What does the railroad need to do in this situation?

I had a train derailment in my town we had a required evacuation. I was not impacted, as I was not at home that week. My taxi driver file a claim and was given a hard time by CSX but eventually was given a check for the full amount.

If your worried about the air in your house, can’t you have it tested? Or just open the windows to vent it for a day.

I am not sure what the end game is?

How big of a check do we given them to make themselves happy? How does a big check make it safe?

 

[GDRRiley]

NTSB Chair is tired of people spreading lies

 

[west point]

A hotbox detector (part of the standard trsck mounted defective equipment detector) did detect this problem but apparently not in time for it to be avoided. Perhaps indicates the need for more frequent placement of defective equipment detectors.

As I read it NS ~~ 38 miles from last dector. At CSX LaGrang Ga city has detectors about 1 - 3 miles from downtown on all four routes into LGC. As well to the north at about 12 miles on CSX is another detector on the A&WP sub.. Unknown if same distances on other 3 routes. Certainly more detectors per mile than NS

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Watching/Reading about this story. Individual business are getting tested by the government, then the business is paying out of pocket for outside agency to test. This is more of a “we don’t trust the government” to do anything right.

Water treatment is a continue process in streams. The city water has been tested and private well water is getting collected and tested.

The politicians are making weird demands, and not simple standing by the EPA. Not sure what if anything will improve by having the State been told what hazmats are travel thur the state. I can haul 45,000 lbs of hazmats across Ohio and PA in less then one day. Just imagine how much tonnage travels ever week.

Anyways I can see a more uniform distance between line side hot box detector passed in Congress. Or maybe individually railcars having detectors. If the Speaker of the House was touring the crash site and talking with people who live there. Seem he currently tour the Mexican / Arizona area. Maybe he can swing by the community impacted by this crash after he done visiting Arizona.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

As I read it NS ~~ 38 miles from last dector. At CSX LaGrang Ga city has detectors about 1 - 3 miles from downtown on all four routes into LGC. As well to the north at about 12 miles on CSX is another detector on the A&WP sub.. Unknown if same distances on other 3 routes. Certainly more detectors per mile than NS

The derailment that occurred near my house occurred on the west side of community, just past the bridge going over the tracks was a detector on the east side of town. Half of a mile or so.

Track maintenance by CSX is pretty poor here in NY. It’s a reoccurring theme with a politician getting interest for a minute or two ever few years.

 

[Barb Stout]

I can sort of understand some people not trusting when the EPA says the contaminants are within safe levels because I'm thinking of the Flint, MI water situation when (if I'm remembering correctly) the state environmental agency told the residents that the water was fine. Because the water looked and/or smelled and/or tasted funny or bad, some residents didn't believe the authorities and some sought independent investigations. It was an academic researcher who first researched and publicized the situation that things were not hunky dory. I know the EPA is not the same as a state environmental agency, but my point is that they are both government agencies. When people's personal sensors (nose, eyes) tell them that something isn't right, I do understand that they might want an investigation from an "independent" source.

 

[MARC Rider]

I can sort of understand some people not trusting when the EPA says the contaminants are within safe levels because I'm thinking of the Flint, MI water situation when (if I'm remembering correctly) the state environmental agency told the residents that the water was fine. Because the water looked and/or smelled and/or tasted funny or bad, some residents didn't believe the authorities and some sought independent investigations. It was an academic researcher who first researched and publicized the situation that things were not hunky dory. I know the EPA is not the same as a state environmental agency, but my point is that they are both government agencies. When people's personal sensors (nose, eyes) tell them that something isn't right, I do understand that they might want an investigation from an "independent" source.

Oh, for sure, if my water tasted or smelled funny, I'd want to get an alternative supply, even if the lab tests came back and said there was nothing at dangerous levels. Seems to me that replacement of water supplies should be the responsibility of Norfolk Southern and they should probably do it "in an abundance of caution" even if the lab tests right now don't show anything at dangerous levels. The air quality issues seem to me to be more difficult to deal with, as it's not like anyone can replace the air around the town. In any event, it seems that the toxic VOCs from the train rash have dissipated by now.

As for which government agency has the responsibility to make pronouncements about whether the water is safe or not, I'm not 100% sure, but I think that would be the State of Ohio, either the Health Department or the Ohio EPA/DNR or whatever they call themselves. The Federal environmental acts in question (Clean Water Act, Safe Drinking Water Act) are generally administered by the states under the supervision of USEPA. In fact, I'm not sure why USEPA even shows up at these incidents, except that they probably provide technical expertise that the state agencies might not have.

This is the most recent status update for the area that I could find.
https://governor.ohio.gov/media/news-and-media/East-Palestine-Update-2-16-23+-1-15-pm-02162023
As far as I can see, this is no Flint, MI, scenario. Some of the local environment is going to be trashed for a while, but it doesn't seem like there will be serious human casualties. It seems that if people want to get angry, they should direct that the Norfolk Southern, not the government, either Federal or state.

 

[Rover]

CNBC
Ohio Attorney General Dave Yost joins 'Squawk on the Street' to break down the Norfolk Southern train derailment and why he thinks the company needs to be held accountable.

 

[Rover]

Jennifer Homendy - NTSB Chair

 

[Cal]

I haven't been keeping up with the thread so apologies if my question has already been addressed. But is it realistic to compare this to Chernobyl? Is the animals dying 100 miles away and the cancer thing true? I've been seeing that a lot around social media and with people I talk to in real life.

 

[niemi24s]

I might suggest breaking ties with social media and being more careful about choosing friends.

 

[George Harris]

Splitting your statement and then answering:

I haven't been keeping up with the thread so apologies if my question has already been addressed. But is it realistic to compare this to Chernobyl?

No. This is like calling a small high school's team equivalent to a professional team in the same sport, if not beyond that. In fact, not even in the same sport.

Is the animals dying 100 miles away and the cancer thing true?

No, and probably not. Maybe some close in, but 100 miles away? That is just silly. There were also some claims of animal deaths from people upwind of the site. Generally cancer from chemicals is traced to long term exposure, not one time events.

I've been seeing that a lot around social media and with people I talk to in real life.

The sky is not falling, regardless of how many people think it is.

 

[Cal]

Splitting your statement and then answering:

No. This is like calling a small high school's team equivalent to a professional team in the same sport, if not beyond that. In fact, not even in the same sport.

No, and probably not. Maybe some close in, but 100 miles away? That is just silly. There were also some claims of animal deaths from people upwind of the site. Generally cancer from chemicals is traced to long term exposure, not one time events.

The sky is not falling, regardless of how many people think it is.

That's what I thought too, but just wanted to hear it from others.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Wow, Chernobyl that a might stretch.

Could these folks have dangerous levels of toxic chemicals in there air? The testing says nope.

Could there house have dangerous levels of toxic chemicals trapped inside? The testing says no.

Could they have toxic chemicals in there city drinking water? The testing say no.

Could they have toxic chemicals in there private well water. No, not yet. (Pretty sure the water in this area is going to be tested heavily for several years.)

Could the stream and creek have toxic chemicals? Since there still have booms up, and actively treating the water to disperse the chemicals. Yes is the answer. They also clearly stated these chemicals will disperse easily in a large body of water.

So yeah it’s a Hazmat clean up, the type of clean up that occurs on a regular basis though the country without anyone noticing. My employer does this several times a week. Anything from someone dropping a trailer and crushing a fuel tank, MVA that cause a truck to lose fluids, and the dreaded rollover with hazardous products in the trailer. Stuff occurs, then we clean it up to Federal and State standards.

 

[jis]

I thought this article contains some useful and well researched info:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/17/...ytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

 

[Rover]

l will give you my thoughts on the horrible Norfolk Southern train derailment at East Palestine, Ohio. It is so very sad to see events like this happen. It is not good for the community nor for the railroad industry. That was an eastbound NS general merchandise freight train which derailed on main track 1. As a result of the derailment, 38 rail cars derailed and a fire ensued that damaged an additional 12 cars. There were 20 total hazardous material cars in the train consist, 10 of which derailed,

 

[west point]

IMO NS has placed their defect detectors too far apart ? CSX certainly has them closer around here.

 

[Rover]

A Classic response using percentages...

A group representing major railroads said last week 99.9% of all hazmat shipments reach their destination without incident and the hazmat accident rate has declined by 55% since 2012.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/bu...s-boost-safety-not-oppose-reforms-2023-02-19/

 

[GDRRiley]

A Classic response using percentages...

99.9% isn't good enough. 99.9999% is where they should be trying to reach now . that is 1 in a million having an issue and the end target should be 1 in ten million.
Is NS the only class 1 who doesn't have every DD talk over the radio with instead many going to dispatch? My understanding is that most railroads have them talk every time a train passes over

 

[Trucker72]

99.9% isn't good enough. 99.9999% is where they should be trying to reach now . that is 1 in a million having an issue and the end target should be 1 in ten million.
Is NS the only class 1 who doesn't have every DD talk over the radio with instead many going to dispatch? My understanding is that most railroads have them talk every time a train passes over

Youtuba did a CZ video about 4 months ago. He travels with a Bearcat scanner and you can here what I believe must be the DDs "talking" to the train?

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Defect detectors (DD) that are not transmitting information to the train by radio do exist. The dispatch has a timeframe to read the results to a train. I do not know what the NS use in this area.

One hopes a train crew will call the dispatch if there not get feedback from a DD. Something like a dark signal, stop and call before proceeding past. Or in this case call dispatch and ask what was the results after the allotted timeframe.

Of course if we update the technology we can have a data dump from the DD to the locomotive done that does not require verbal communication. Alarm goes off in the cab given the exact railcar and the nature of the issue. No need to walk the train counting the axles look for axle 38.