Funding, Border Inspection and Operation of Cross Border Services

[Willbridge]

What makes the bus different is that your luggage is under the bus, so no negotiating aisles and stairs with it. They often don't bother accessing it except for the few specifically asked for it.

When they go on board the Adirondack, they seldom ask you to get it down and open it, but merely ask where it is.


On the Greyhound crossing from Montreal to Burlington, they let us back on the bus, except for one woman they made an issue of inside the facility for 40 minutes.

Therefore, what goes on at Niagara Falls is based on power trips, theatre, and laziness.

There was a time when they rode moving trains, such as from the Auburg Trestle to St Albans. The lawmakers need to let them throw their temper tantrum, and like recalitrant children, ignore them, and write their procedures out of existance.

In the late '60's and early 70's I crossed on scheduled buses at Blaine/White Rock, Langley, and Kingsgate, BC and in all cases the border check was done on the bus with the exception of problem cases. The other passengers remained on the bus, waiting to glare at those who had been taken off.

In 1976 my wife, our infant son, and I were taken off of a PWA plane flying SEA>YVR that made an unscheduled stop at Victoria. My son and I were entering Canada to be Landed Immigrants, so paperwork had to be completed, but everyone else was checked on the plane. The flight attendant did the glaring.

CORRECTED:
The only post-Cold War terrorist that I can think of coming out of BC was on the Black Ball ferry in a rental car.

Transcript | PBS - Trail Of A Terrorist | FRONTLINE | PBS

Read the entire transcript to get a good understanding of how the paranoia at the U.S.--Canada border came about.

 

[zephyr17]

A couple of years ago I crossed on a bus at the Pacific Highway ("Truck Crossing") Blaine/Surrey crossing (no commercial vehicles or buses allowed at Peace Arch). Everybody had to get off, grab their luggage and proceed through inspection. I completely believe that everyone could remain on the bus in the 70s. Back in the day you could cross with a simple driver's license. 9/11 really changed how things operate on the US/Canada border.

 

[west point]

This poster just wants there to be no subsiding of operations in Canada either USA or states. Keep the money in the USA.

 

[Amtrak25]

That does not "keep the money" in the USA. If people want to go to Montreal, they will find some other way to go, and there will be no train service north of Saratoga Springs.

 

[zephyr17]

This poster just wants there to be no subsiding of operations in Canada either USA or states. Keep the money in the USA.

Washington paid for construction of a siding at Colebrook, BC so a second train could be added, so there is that.

Washington has chosen to subsidize service to Vancouver. Washington taxpayers are fine with it. Western Washington and BC are closely linked culturally as well as economically. MYOB. It is Washington's sovereign right to do what it wills with its money.

 

[jis]

This poster just wants there to be no subsiding of operations in Canada either USA or states. Keep the money in the USA.

I think you are barking up the wrong tree. Who do you suppose is going to pay for the US CBP presence in Montreal? Canada? That train has left the station long time back never to return. What do you suppose all of the C&I station outside the US for pre-clearance are and how they are funded? Heck we subsidize those in far flung places like Dublin and Doha!

The overall consideration should be are we getting the bang for the buck or not.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

This poster just wants there to be no subsiding of operations in Canada either USA or states. Keep the money in the USA.

Those trains and operations bring people into the USA as well. People ride the trains from Canada to the USA as well!

 

[zephyr17]

Not a chance. There are currently no examples where Canadian border officers operate in other countries. This differs from the US where officers do pre-clearance in places like Canada, Aruba and Ireland. AFAIK, provision was made for a Canadian "office" in the Niagara Falls, NY, Amtrak station, however this never materialized due to "union" issues - long before a pandemic made it all academic. I'm not even sure whether the US would permit "foreign" officers to operate on US soil, but the issues run much deeper than that.

The "Preclearance" rights negotiated with Canada are bilateral, and that includes the new extension to rail passenger services.

Canada already has the rights to establish and operate their own Preclearance facilities, staffed by CBSA officers, in US airports and rail stations. They have chosen thus far not to exercise those rights, but they have the rights to do so.

 

[jis]

Moderator's Notes: Posts upto this point were moved here from the thread on CP Amtrak agreement which is the following thread:

https://www.amtraktrains.com/thread...mtrak-about-detroit-river-tunnel.80774/page-4

 

[Exvalley]

What do you suppose all of the C&I station outside the US for pre-checks are and how they are funded?

They are funded in large part through user fees - but yes, they are funded by a check written by the United States government.

Was there a C&I surcharge on Amtrak trains for passengers who crossed the border? If not, and they open a dedicated facility in Montreal, Toronto or Vancouver, the temptation to levy a surcharge will be there.

 

[jis]

They are funded in large part through user fees - but yes, they are funded by a check written by the United States government.

Was there a C&I surcharge on Amtrak trains for passengers who crossed the border? If not, and they open a dedicated facility in Montreal, Toronto or Vancouver, the temptation to levy a surcharge will be there.

Indeed! Interestingly, the Vancouver Pacific Central Station CBP facility was actually staffed by personnel from the Vancouver International Airport CBP facility, the last time I looked. Don't know if that has changed. It seems a bit of overkill to have dedicated staff for just two arrivals and departures each day.

The Canadians staff their checkpoint for the Adirondack at La Colle out of the adjacent road checkpoint. I am not sure if Rouse's Point has dedicate US CBP staff or they just drive in from the Northway checkpoint to handle the train.

All these are of course quite different from the first remote facility in any city, which has to set up its own independent establishment and staff.

 

[Exvalley]

It's probably a safe bet that the railroad station preclearance facilities in Canada will be staffed and managed by the nearby airport preclearance operations.

 

[zephyr17]

They are funded in large part through user fees - but yes, they are funded by a check written by the United States government.

Was there a C&I surcharge on Amtrak trains for passengers who crossed the border? If not, and they open a dedicated facility in Montreal, Toronto or Vancouver, the temptation to levy a surcharge will be there.

There was never an express surcharge for C&I on any of the cross border trains. If there were fees, they were hidden.

There is already a dedicated facility in Vancouver. My understanding is is staffed out of YVR for both CBP and CBSA. For the US customs check at Blaine, staff from the Peace Arch facility on I 5/BC 99 just walk over to the tracks.

 

[MARC Rider]

The Canadians staff their checkpoint for the Adirondack at La Colle out of the adjacent road checkpoint. I am not sure if Rouse's Point has dedicate US CBP staff or they just drive in from the Northway checkpoint to handle the train.

There's a CBP checkpoint right in Rouse's Point on US 11 (Lake St.) which becomes Quebec Route 223 over the border