Future Amtrak Equipment and ADA ideas

[jis]

I’d say that Amtrak ought to take a few Amfleets, put some Delta One-style seats in them, and see how they fare in the marketplace.

Since airlines have clearly moved to lie-flat seats (customers demand them), I couldn’t see a transportation company moving away from a flat sleeping accommodation. But then again, it’s Amtrak, so you never know.

I don't think there are any plans for moving away from Sleeper service.

OTOH I would be OK with starting an overnight service as a Coach+BC train on a trial basis with the intention to add Sleepers if successful and when more Sleepers become available. I would prefer addition of train service rather than waiting for Sleepers to become available for such. Both the Desert Wind and the Pioneer wre originally introduced As Coach + Lounge/Cafe trains, to be later augmented with Sleeper and Diner-Lounge and/or SSL.

 

[cocojacoby]

I’d say that Amtrak ought to take a few Amfleets, put some Delta One-style seats in them, and see how they fare in the marketplace.

Since airlines have clearly moved to lie-flat seats (customers demand them), I couldn’t see a transportation company moving away from a flat sleeping accommodation. But then again, it’s Amtrak, so you never know.

I did mention earlier that my wife took the Meteor from Florida to Boston last month. She had a choice of coach for about $300 or a roomette for $1400! She traveled coach. I think there is definitely a market for something in between.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I think there is definitely a market for something in between.

The roomette should be that though. $1100 for a roomette is way too high in my opinion.

 

[Mailliw]

Roomettes would make an ideal mid-tier option, if only there were enough inventory.

 

[zephyr17]

The roomette should be that though. $1100 for a roomette is way too high in my opinion.

Well, I wouldn't pay it, but it is only too much if no one buys it and it goes out empty.

 

[travelplus]

Instead of Roometts place the Business lie flat seats in a compartment with easy aisle access and a door that closes with overhead bin space,shower cars for Coach and Business. Coach pays $10 for a Shower. Business and above is free..

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Instead of Roometts place the Business lie flat seats in a compartment with easy aisle access and a door that closes with overhead bin space,shower cars for Coach and Business. Coach pays $10 for a Shower. Business and above is free..

If you put the business lie flat seat in a compartment why is that better than a roomette? It would take up the same space and reduce the capacity of the car (no bunk bed).

 

[cocojacoby]

I am going to make a guess here so please allow me to take a stab at this. Taking a NYP comparable bilevel car like those mentioned above and putting in Delta One Mini-Suites (which are really just Off-The-Shelf modules made by Thompson Aero | Intelligent Design) I will make the following assumptions:

85' long car.
50' clear floor space on each level (between trucks).
17.5' floor space mezzanine end level over each truck.
6' foot long beds in each room and suite.
18" space gap between lay-flat beds for passage (this is in front of each seat).

This would give you approximately 7.5' per mini-suite unit.
50' divided by 7.5' would give you approximately 6.5 units per row (since they are staggered that half unit may come into play like at the end for stairways).
You can fit in approximately 8 rows per car (four across X two floors).
Which would give you approximately 48 min-suites in the mid-section. Lets give one to the attendant so say 47 pax. You are probably going to lose one or two for stairways too so lets say 45.

On one 17.5' end you could have one vestibule (3'), walkway with ADA room bathroom extension on one side (2'), an ADA room (7') and 5.5" dead space for miscellaneous mechanicals and/or coffee maker and/or stairs/hallways, etc.

On the other 17.5' end you would have room for four 6.6' modules plus 3' of dead space. So that could be four more "double roomettes" but probably more likely two "double roomettes", one double bathroom module (i.e. two restrooms), and one shower. The 3' of dead space on each side of the aisle can be used for some mechanicals and/or storage and/or coffee maker, and/or stairs, etc.

So a grand total of maybe:
46 single mini-suits - 45 pax + 1 addendant
1 ADA room - 2 pax
2 Double Roomettes - 4 pax

Grand total of maybe 51 pax + 1 addendant.

This is maxing it out of course. With more detailed dimensions we could see how the need for short stairways and walkways and room for mechanicals and storage would work. But this is just a quick try at looking at the potential new type of sleeper on a long holiday weekend.

Need to get a detailed schematic of a NYP bilevel car and a life!

Merry Christmas all!

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Were there new ADA rules after the Viewliner II’s were ordered?

 

[jis]

Were there new ADA rules after the Viewliner II’s were ordered?

Apparently yes. Remember VLIIs were ordered almost a decade back. I think FRA revised the regulation. I don;t recall whether that was because of additional legislation or result of court orders or what.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Apparently yes. Remember VLIIs were ordered almost a decade back. I think FRA revised the regulation. I don;t recall whether that was because of additional legislation or result of court orders or what.

Sorry if this has already been asked / answered in this thread but is there anywhere to find the current rules?

 

[travelplus]

If you put the business lie flat seat in a compartment why is that better than a roomette? It would take up the same space and reduce the capacity of the car (no bunk bed).

But the bunk is hard for those with disabilities and a lot of seniors to climb in and out of

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

But the bunk is hard for those with disabilities and a lot of seniors to climb in and out of

That why it’s recommended to get two roomette across from each other.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

But the bunk is hard for those with disabilities and a lot of seniors to climb in and out of

But it works fine for many people - why take away that option?

 

[cocojacoby]

Not sure if this will work but here is an interesting letter concerning ADA issues:

 

[Joe from PA]

That why it’s recommended to get two roomette across from each other.

Which is what my wife (78) and I (80) have done for all of our 8 overnight trips. PLUS, 2 roomettes are a good deal cheaper than one bedroom (that still has bunk beds).

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Not sure if this will work but here is an interesting letter concerning ADA issues:

So it seems there isn’t a law about this - Gardner seems to think the existing accommodations are fine.

I do too. Hotels don’t have to build every single room to be a handicap accessible room, there is a law about how many rooms they have to offer. Amtrak should be the same. Offer a certain number of handicap seats / rooms.

 

[Touchdowntom9]

If you put the business lie flat seat in a compartment why is that better than a roomette? It would take up the same space and reduce the capacity of the car (no bunk bed).

How common is traveling with a partner vs solo on Amtrak? I would never be ok splitting a roomette with a stranger but I can’t imagine that a roomette has 2 passengers in it more than 10% of the time. Could be wrong but I get the feeling that the full capacity of the roomette is very underutilized. If that’s true, the true capacity is much lower than advertised here. If the business class seats appeal to more people than the current roomette, then it would make sense to listen to the customer base. Again, I could be wrong about utilization, but I don’t believe I am far off if at all.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

How common is traveling with a partner vs solo on Amtrak? I would never be ok splitting a roomette with a stranger but I can’t imagine that a roomette has 2 passengers in it more than 10% of the time. Could be wrong but I get the feeling that the full capacity of the roomette is very underutilized. If that’s true, the true capacity is much lower than advertised here. If the business class seats appeal to more people than the current roomette, then it would make sense to listen to the customer base. Again, I could be wrong about utilization, but I don’t believe I am far off if at all.

I would definitely guess more than 10% but I’m not sure why that matters? nobody is forcing anyone to share a roomette - it’s an option.

If I had to guess I would say 20-50% with lots of variances depending on route and time of year.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Still not sure what the need is for these lie flat seat. The roomettes cover this. If your want to increase accommodations there are several type of sleepers not currently available in the USA. Such as Individual Pods, Shared Couchette berths, Platzcart.

I see no advantage to having lie flat seats on a train.

 

[AFriendly]

Just another person chiming in to say that I'd be very sad to see lie-flat seats on trains. Train travel is better than air travel generally, no need to pursue the lowest common denominator. I'm curious as to whether today's travelers would ride in open sections on trains. I know that the Superliner roomette is basically that with walls and that VIA still has them on the Canadian, but with some clever duplexing maybe a truly high-density tourist sleeper would be feasible.

 

[rs9]

Just another person chiming in to say that I'd be very sad to see lie-flat seats on trains. Train travel is better than air travel generally, no need to pursue the lowest common denominator. I'm curious as to whether today's travelers would ride in open sections on trains. I know that the Superliner roomette is basically that with walls and that VIA still has them on the Canadian, but with some clever duplexing maybe a truly high-density tourist sleeper would be feasible.

Not to go too far off topic, but Amtrak is currently missing out on revenue from people like me that, as a solo traveler, cannot justify the cost of a roomette but would be willing to spend somewhere between the cost of coach and roomette. Or more colloquially, a business class product.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Not to go too far off topic, but Amtrak is currently missing out on revenue from people like me that, as a solo traveler, cannot justify the cost of a roomette but would be willing to spend somewhere between the cost of coach and roomette. Or more colloquially, a business class product.

I would say that the problem is there aren’t enough roomettes to meet demand so the price is much higher than it should be.

 

[John819]

Let's start from the premise that the ADA will impose a lot of restrictions on what can be done with the next generation sleeper cars. This in all probability (unless the rules get modified) would rule out bi-level equipment, so we need to assume single level.

Remembering that the ADA does not require that all areas be accessible, but reasonable accommodations must be provided. So, my suggestion would be to have two types of sleeper cars. The first would be laid out with a wide aisle and would have at least three accessible bedrooms (and perhaps a few standard bedrooms (this could be done if the beds were placed lengthwise in the car). The second would be either two standard bedrooms and 12 roomettes, or 16 roomettes.

Note that since a single level diner cannot really be made accessible end-to-end, the "core" of the train (between coach and sleepers) would need to have the following cars in order: coach observation/lounge - coach cafe - sleeper diner - sleeper observation/lounge.

 

[joelkfla]

Remembering that the ADA does not require that all areas be accessible, but reasonable accommodations must be provided.

The regulations say "sleeper cars shall comply". They don't say anything like "some sleeper cars" or a certain percentage of sleeper cars.

Subpart F - Intercity Rail Cars and Systems