Future Amtrak Equipment and ADA ideas

[Mailliw]

Would a fully articulated married pair of sleeping cars count as 1 car for ADA purposes? What if 1 of the cars had more than one ADA Bedroom?

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Would a fully articulated married pair of sleeping cars count as 1 car for ADA purposes? What if 1 of the cars had more than one ADA Bedroom?

Would a fully articulate married pair sleeping car comply? Technically yes, but not in the spirit of the regulation.

So slapping 2 sleepers together on three trucks may or may not be acceptable.

If your rail car has more than one ADA bedroom, of course your meet the minimum standards of one per sleeper.

 

[jis]

Would a fully articulate married pair sleeping car comply? Technically yes, but not in the spirit of the regulation.

So slapping 2 sleepers together on three trucks may or may not be acceptable.

If your rail car has more than one ADA bedroom, of course your meet the minimum standards of one per sleeper.

Sorry if this has already been asked / answered in this thread but is there anywhere to find the current rules?

The FRA ADA regulations as stipulated in

PART 38 - AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES ACT (ADA) ACCESSIBILITY SPECIFICATIONS FOR TRANSPORTATION VEHICLES

is one thing. In addition to that there is the NGEC defined regulations and detailed interpretation and application of the FRA ones to specific car configuration. IIRC the 42" aisle width comes from there, not from the CFR. I am sure when NGEC specifies fully articulated Sleeping Car pairs they will specify how the FRA Regs apply to it, and most passenger carriers have signed on to being compliant with the NGEC specified interpretation, and even the FRA plays a key role in pushing service providers in that direction. Unfortunately it is much harder to get hold of the latest NGEC specifications unless you are more than just a casually interested party..

 

[jis]

MODERATOR'S NOTE: A number of posts on preferences and experiences with shared or en suite restrooms and various other current sleeper configuration experiences have been moved to its own thread at:

https://www.amtraktrains.com/threads/restroom-and-other-experiences-in-sleepers.84065/
Please post current experiences and restroom preferences related posts in that thread and leave the New Sleeper ideas thread to radical departures from current practices, like for example, non-conventional ideas of accommodation like Lie Flat seats , Slumber coaches , Capsules etc.

Thanks you for you understanding, cooperation and participation.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

A preproduction model (Roco) of the new nightjet pod and couchette car.



Not the best screenshot ever, so the source video is provided.

 

[cocojacoby]

Only one way to pull that off:

https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/27033561/talgo-22

 

[jis]

At present Talgo 22 is mostly Glossyware. A prototype was built and apparently demonstrated to VR. It was offered to VR in Finland for Commuter Service. Finally what VR bought were essentially what we call Multi-Levels with gangway at mid level, but entry doors at the lower level, and running on standard 4 wheel trucks. After that order VR ordered double deck Sleeper trains, but not from Talgo, but from Skoda, and those also have gangways at mid level. They also ordered more multi-levels for day trains from Skoda.

I doubt anyone will seriously try to operate single axle based rolling stock on our rickety infrastructure in the US. It is bad enough in places with the regular two axle trucks.

But wonders never cease. Talgo has a chance to offer it in response to the Amtrak LD RFP, and then we'll see how it goes.

 

[cocojacoby]

A better option would probably be an Ultradome based fleet but there are apparently clearance problems with them in Chicago. May be fixable may be not?

 

[jis]

A better option would probably be an Ultradome based fleet but there are apparently clearance problems with them in Chicago. May be fixable may be not?

The manufacturer of Ultradomes is no more. Its successor company which does notionally offer the Ultradome in its catalog, which is basically the Colorado Railcar catalog has no manufacturing facility. Any order it might receive will be fulfilled apparently under contract by the company which was known as American Railcar Company which mainly was in the business of leasing freight cars and repairing them. They recently reincorporated as American Industrial Transport. I doubt that any of this cast of characters would even be able to qualify.

 

[cocojacoby]

The manufacturer of Ultradomes is no more. Its successor company which does notionally offer the Ultradome in its catalog, which is basically the Colorado Railcar catalog has no manufacturing facility. Any order it might receive will be fulfilled apparently under contract by the company which was known as American Railcar Company which mainly was in the business of leasing freight cars and repairing them. They recently reincorporated as American Industrial Transport. I doubt that any of this cast of characters would even be able to qualify.

I think most people know that. No reason the concept can't be made by another manufacturer.

https://www.railvolution.net/news/new-carriages-for-rocky-mountaineer-delivered

 

[jis]

I think most people know that. No reason the concept can't be made by another manufacturer.

https://www.railvolution.net/news/new-carriages-for-rocky-mountaineer-delivered

Of course, anything can be manufactured. The question is how soon and for what price. The other relevant question that Amtrak has to answer is what sort of fleet composition they want going forward.

Anyway without significant funding running into many tens of millions of dollar (which is unlikely to come to pass) nothing higher than the Superliners can operate into Chicago Union Station, so this is just a theoretical discussion.

 

[joelkfla]

At present Talgo 22 is mostly Glossyware. A prototype wqas built and apparently demonstrated to VR. It was offered to VR in Finland for Commuter Service. Finally what VR baought were essentially what we call Multi-Levels with gangway at mid level, but entry doors at the lower level, and running on standard 4 wheel trucks. After that order VR ordered double deck Sleeper trains, but not from Talgo, but from Skoda, and those also have gangways at mid level. They also ordered more multi-levels for day trains from Skoda.

I doubt anyone will seriously try to operate single axle based rolling stock on our rickety infrastructure in the US. It is bad enough in places with the regular two axle trucks.

But wonders never cease. Talgo has a chance to offer it in response to the Amtrak LD RFP, and then we'll see how it goes.

Can you elaborate on how double-axle bogies are superior to single-axle ones on rickety infrastructure? Just curious. Does it have to do with slight variations in track gauge?

 

[jis]

Can you elaborate on how double-axle bogies are superior to single-axle ones on rickety infrastructure? Just curious. Does it have to do with slight variations in track gauge?

The Physics of it is somewhat involved. However, just to get a taste of the issues involved see this discussion:

https://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/p/13338/152433.aspx

 

[mlanoue]

This video on You Tube shows a train with a small business class section that has lie-flat seats. (I think you can lie flat on them.It never actually shows anybody using them.). That section starts at 1:50 into the video.

Hong Kong to Beijing by High-Speed Train

 

[cocojacoby]

This video on You Tube shows a train with a small business class section that has lie-flat seats. (I think you can lie flat on them.It never actually shows anybody using them.). That section starts at 1:50 into the video.

Hong Kong to Beijing by High-Speed Train

Wow! It's like looking into the future

 

[jis]

Wow! It's like looking into the future

The Siemens glossy on the Novo shows lie flat seats in one of the of the end cars. But typically they are 2x1 so they won;t be cheap. They are characterized as Business Executive Class which is what full service First Class with elaborate food service is called in the latest Eurospeak.

But of course one could select narrower lie flat seats and fit 2x2, and reduce pitch enough to fit 40+ seats per car.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Thank you for the info. It would be nice if Amtrak posted something similar on its app and web site. They haven't even posted it on alerts as far as I can tell.

Check their twitter alerts. You don't need a twitter account to see them.
https://twitter.com/AmtrakAlerts?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

 

[MisterUptempo]

I'm putting this info here, in hopes that others can discuss the merits of these new sleeper trains and what features should make it into new Amtrak sleepers-

Stadler to supply Norwegian long distance trains making the journey an ‘experience in itself’​

17 February 2023

NORWAY: State-owned rolling stock company Norske Tog has selected Stadler as the winner of a contract to supply 17 long distance trainsets to be branded as Flirtnex, with options for 100 more.

‘This is a big day’, said Norske Tog CEO Øystein Risan on February 17. ‘Norway has some of the most spectacular train rides in the world, and with the new long distance trains coming in 2027, everything is in place to lift the experience, the comfort, and the quality for the passengers to a whole new level.’
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The 200 km/h trainsets will have eight cars and a capacity of up to 542 passengers, with some trains having only seats and some having a mix of seats and overnight accommodation.
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The trains will feature reclining seats, sleeping compartments, a bistro, family areas and luggage space.
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Risan said the trainsets would be ‘flexible when it comes to space, comfort, and different type of usage’, with a range of options including reclining seats for day and night use and two and four-berth sleeping compartments. During the day, the compartments would be convertible into private seating areas for families and business travelers.

The whole story can be found here.

-These trainsets will be built off Stadler's Flirt200 platform.
-Potentially, EMU and EDMU sets will be built.
-Sleeping compartments will come in 2-bed and 4-bed flavors.
-This story declares the trains will commence revenue service in 2027. Every other source I've seen thus far says manufacture starts in 2024, testing in Norway starts in 2025, revenue service in 2026.
-First sets will be assigned to Oslo-Bergen route.

Sleeper accommodations

Coach and Business/1st Class seating (whatever they call it)

MORE TO COME

 

[MisterUptempo]

More renderings of Norske Tog's new Stadler Flirtnex sleepers.

Kids' play area-

Bike storage area-

Bistro car-

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

-These trainsets will be built off Stadler's Flirt200 platform.
-Potentially, EMU and EDMU sets will be built.

EMU, not too surprise. I just wonder if we can find the necessary distance between city’s to equip a HSR trainsets into a sleeper service.

Sleep at 175 mph to your destination.

 

[PaTrainFan]

I'm putting this info here, in hopes that others can discuss the merits of these new sleeper trains and what features should make it into new Amtrak sleepers-


The whole story can be found here.

-These trainsets will be built off Stadler's Flirt200 platform.
-Potentially, EMU and EDMU sets will be built.
-This story declares the trains will commence revenue service in 2027. Every other source I've seen thus far says manufacture starts in 2024, testing in Norway starts in 2025, revenue service in 2026.
-First sets will be assigned to Oslo-Bergen route.

Sleeper accommodations

Coach and Business/1st Class seating (whatever they call it)

MORE TO COME

Very sharp. Definitely modern. Consider me old fashioned, I still prefer beds parallel to the window. There's nothing like laying in bed looking out the window of a moving train.

 

[Mailliw]

Great pics! The sleeping compartment day seating mode looks bizarre though. Two small seats beside a low flat surface?

 

[GDRRiley]

More renderings of Norske Tog's new Stadler Flirtnex sleepers

a high floor FLIRT or FLIRT sleeper could work on the NEC but given the limits of DMU flirts I don't see it being used across the national network.

 

[MccfamschoolMom]

Great pics! The sleeping compartment day seating mode looks bizarre though. Two small seats beside a low flat surface?

If the low flat surface were in the middle, it would work better for meals, games, etc.

 

[MccfamschoolMom]

Kids' play area-

So cute! (And the pretend "Viking ship" is very appropriate for a Norwegian train.) This reminds me of the play area at the children's museum in Kankakee we used to take our kids to when they were little (20-25 years ago), which featured a "pirate ship" kids could climb around and "fish" from.