Greyhound seats and fleet questions

[mightyjoe1201]

Or may depend on the seats on a transit bus. We had a fleet of early 80's neoplans for almost 20 yrs that I thought were more comfortable then our current fleet. Except that is for our Damn trolley. Lol.

Your about rite. Intercity buses do tend to last longer and are probably designed that way.

High idle is kind of one if those catch 22's. It does put more wear on the engine but can also prolong engine life. Too long at low idle and the oil drains from the cylinders.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

So I guess the best way would be to minimize idling altogether? Just keep on running and, at stations, turn off the engine? Greyhound has a 15-minute Engine Idle Limit, but not all drivers obey it. At Reno, I once saw a White G (I think #7159) that kept running and spewing fumes for up to 30 minutes doing nothing. It wasn't coming or going anywhere, it was sitting in the lot.

It was on a trucker forum when I saw someone saying a Detroit Diesel Series 60 would last 1,000,000 miles on a truck but only 600,000 on a motorcoach because the latter would always be idling waiting for passengers. Of course, again, Greyhound is the exception. I think charter buses also idle a lot waiting for their groups.

In San Francisco, I always thought the PCCs had more comfortable seats than anything else MUNI had. Guess they knew comfort back in the 1940s.

 

[railiner]

So I guess the best way would be to minimize idling altogether? Just keep on running and, at stations, turn off the engine? Greyhound has a 15-minute Engine Idle Limit, but not all drivers obey it. At Reno, I once saw a White G (I think #7159) that kept running and spewing fumes for up to 30 minutes doing nothing. It wasn't coming or going anywhere, it was sitting in the lot.

It was on a trucker forum when I saw someone saying a Detroit Diesel Series 60 would last 1,000,000 miles on a truck but only 600,000 on a motorcoach because the latter would always be idling waiting for passengers. Of course, again, Greyhound is the exception. I think charter buses also idle a lot waiting for their groups.

In San Francisco, I always thought the PCCs had more comfortable seats than anything else MUNI had. Guess they knew comfort back in the 1940s.

Been around any truckstops? I see trucks idling all night long, to keep sleeping driver's warm....

Most new buses have timer's that will automatically shut down an idling bus after about 15 minutes....

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Now that I think about it, you're right! I was around both the Avenal and Wendover truck stops in the middle of the night and I see trucks running. So I don't know what that trucker was talking about. I guess you can't trust those same guys that are talking about disabling EGR. Perhaps they could find an efficient system that keep the HVAC on without idling the engine.

I just found somebody hating on Greyhound on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR7kgBmtMIM.

OK, I know that D4505 sucks, but that driver was trying to be reasonable and the other guy (supervisor?) was trying to be nice. And yet she claims to have been "attacked" and "yelled at" by Greyhound. In fact, she was the one yelling at the employees. She was the one that called the driver a "****." Just looking for trouble. If I were the driver, I would've kicked her off my bus.

BTW, that is Sked 3891 Atlanta-Jacksonville.

Oh, and here's some kids licking flies off a D4505: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L78lIXFJq8M.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

You mean they have 1990 Gillig Phantoms? Yeah, I don't know how that one would feel like. Probably pretty bad. GLC was running 1991 102C3s with CAT engines up until 2011, so they would have racked up +-3,000,000 miles. Then again, those 102C3s ran on the highway and probably took very little wear-and-tear. I guess 500,000 miles is indeed maximum for a stop-and-go bus, though intercity buses should last much longer. Heard high idle really wears out the engine while waiting on passengers. Someone told me it lowers engine life by 40%.

They also have some Flxible Metros left too.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

They still have Flxibles left? OK, I'd better go for a ride on one if they are really still running! Is anybody still running GMC New Looks or Classics? I don't really care if it's a MCI or Nova Classic, either. Calgary Transit just retired their last Classic.

 

[rickycourtney]

Idling is just bad all around. It sucks up fuel and puts wear and tear on the engine. Here in Seattle the rule for Metro drivers is that they have to shut off their engine immediately upon arrival at a layover point. It's usually within seconds... the driver pulls up, sets the parking brake and kills the engine. Mind you these layovers aren't very long (5-20 minutes) but it's worth it for the fuel savings.

Our brand new hybrid Xcelciors go one step further. Much like a Prius the engine shuts off if the bus is stationary for more than a few seconds.

Back to Greyhound... it would probably be a good idea for the company to study idling at layover stops. It would probably be a good idea to have drivers shut off their engine immediately upon arrival at a layover point. The only exception could be for stops in areas with extreme heat or cold. To that end it might be worth investigating wiring buses for shore power so air conditioning systems, customer power outlets and WiFi systems can continue to run while the bus is parked.

 

[mightyjoe1201]

That's actually not a bad idea. Tho shore power can be a problem when it comes to cost. Another option would b auxiliary power units. Yes, they take up some room but are worth it. A lot if trucks have them, they operate hvac and most electrical systems. They also will start automatically when the engine is shut off and run off either diesel from the vehicle tank or off of batteries that recharge while driving. The one that I had on the truck I drove would also keep the engine block and oil warm in the winter so it wouldn't freeze up. Greyhound would benefit from it a lot.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I did some more digging on the APU. Installation costs around $15,000 and the APU can get quite loud, but it seems to be a good idea. The APU appears to work best when the vehicle is piling up the miles so that it can recharge while driving. So I don't think it'll be very useful for charters or tours, but very useful for scheduled service, especially Greyhound.

After a search, I found what MCI says on the issue:
"MCI does not currently have the budget (or necessary expertise) to develop the APU systems.
Cost of Fuel Cells are still high, therefore the APU may also carry a significant cost penalty."

MCI says they don't currently offer any APU-equipped models.

 

[rickycourtney]

Unlike semi trucks going to truck stops, Greyhound buses have the benefit of consistency. They almost always pull into a slip head first. That means everything is always in the same spot. It would be easy enough to install shore cables in a constant spot at each company owned station and having corresponding receptacles on each bus.

Using shore power would be cheaper in the long run since there's no fuel burn and very little equipment that would need to be installed on each bus (equipment that takes up valuable space and needs maintenance).

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Greyhound in Reno has their own fuel reserves and fueling lines. These lines are along the bus bays. This makes it easy to refuel every bus that pulls into Reno. The same thing could be done with shore power. I'm not sure why the company has not installed either this or APUs.

Also, Blue G #7267 seen on Facebook at this moment running Sked 1684 Denver-New York City. I like how it's signed "NEW YORK CITY" instead of "NEW YORK. NY". Photo courtesy Earl Smith/Facebook.

Them Blue G's holding down the long-haul corridors.

 

[rickycourtney]

Do drivers type the destinations into the signs or are all the possible destinations preprogrammed into a memory bank?

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I think the destinations are typed in. I've seen all kinds of different funny destinations being displayed. Peter Pan likes to display "NEVER NEVER LAND".

I rarely see "NEW YORK CITY" in pictures anymore. Greyhound used that a long ways back, perhaps in the MC-9 days. By the 102A3, they were seen displaying "NEW YORK" and then the X3-45, with its electronic sign, started displaying "NEW YORK, NY."

My assumption is that the Denver driver was a veteran driver and works far from New York City, so he decided to post that. Earl says "she doing best she can" of the bus, another guy said "that will buff out", which I don't really understand. Then a third guy said "don't hate, celebrate!" Last guy says it's 1682, but I'm almost certain it's 1684 because the photo is geotagged Goodland, KS and taken in the middle of the night. 1682 passes Goodland around noon. So yeah, lots of mixed opinions about these Blue G's, I guess. It matters to me because I've been following them for a long time.

One more thing, I found this trip report of Greyhound, but I haven't got the time to rear it yet: http://sacratomatovillepost.com/2012/09/28/bus-6062-from-atlanta-to-new-orleans/.

 

[mightyjoe1201]

Actually, the destinations are preprogrammed into the signs. All the driver does is enter a corresponding code to bring up the sign they want. Next time your on a greyhound take a look at the back if the sign. It probably has a number pad rather then a full keyboard.

 

[mightyjoe1201]

Using shore power is good but depends on the electricity cost. Also, what about the small stations in the small towns that aren't owned by greyhound?

An apu doesn't take up much space and doesn't use much fuel. Only about a gallon in 8 hrs. And if it's batteries they stay charged when ever the engine is run and last 8-10 hours of continuous use. Trucks have the same issue as buses when it comes to space and valuable weight needed.

 

[fishbusone]

Years ago, most major stations did supply hotel power to the coaches! The stations used ceiling hoses that would connect to a trap door on the side of the coach supplying a/c or heat depending on the time of year! They would then attach power cords to the built in electrical outlets on the coach! This practice stopped in the early eighties due to problems with driver s forgetting to remove these items before departing! The PABT in NYC retained this setup when the North wing was built in 1980!

Generally you' aren't supposed to idle buses at meal stops except in extremely cold/hot weather but I will idle a coach if the battery gauge is hovering at or below 24 or if they had to jump the bus to start it! Also at night in a G model as you are only supplied 1 light tube with the master switch off, which won't properly light up the coach at night!

 

[fishbusone]

Drivers may manually program the signs by using a master manual input code! The sign NEW YORK CITY as opposed toNEW YORK NY is an example of that! You can tell if it is manually input by looking at the lower left corner of the sign as one led will light in that area of the sign when manually input! After 13 characters are entered, a manual sign will move from left to right as opposed to standing still! Some of the signs do have P/R codes that will display in addition to the regular destination!

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I just heard they sent a X3-45 on Denver-El Paso even though it was based in the East. Greyhound needs to get their dispatching straight. I don't know why they sent a Blue G to the East and a X3-45 down to El Paso. Perhaps there was too much Package Express? Well, now that X3-45 is going to have tons of trouble trying to get back east. And apparently Denver Maintenance refuses to fix X3-45s.

Also, I heard 1684 had a double that was a White G! They must have had tons of Package Express to not send out the X3-45. 1684 got delayed due to snow.

Anybody know what "peddle down" means? And is a "double" an extra section? I think that's what it means since 1684's double would've been 1684-2.

If I were the dispatcher, I would've sent the X3-45 back east to New York City and the Blue G to El Paso or maybe Portland. This doesn't make sense. All I can say is that maybe Greyhound has too much Package Express to haul. Denver should be all-Blue G in that case. X3-45s should stay East. I wonder if Denver-El Paso has much GPX, probably not.

 

[railiner]

Years ago, most major stations did supply hotel power to the coaches! The stations used ceiling hoses that would connect to a trap door on the side of the coach supplying a/c or heat depending on the time of year! They would then attach power cords to the built in electrical outlets on the coach! This practice stopped in the early eighties due to problems with driver s forgetting to remove these items before departing! The PABT in NYC retained this setup when the North wing was built in 1980!

Generally you' aren't supposed to idle buses at meal stops except in extremely cold/hot weather but I will idle a coach if the battery gauge is hovering at or below 24 or if they had to jump the bus to start it! Also at night in a G model as you are only supplied 1 light tube with the master switch off, which won't properly light up the coach at night!

Welcome to the forum!

Yeah...I remember when they had those A/C-Heater units supply air via those big yellow hoses...the MC-6,7,8,and early 9's I believe, had those ports just below and aft of the driver's window. You had to loosen a wing nut to open them, and they fed the driver's side air duct. Some driver's used them on other types by just sticking the hose into the toll window...

The electric cord was used to light up the center florescent ceiling lights on the MC-6 and MC-7. Those lights could not be used at all on internal power...

The first MCI coaches with internally powered florescent's, I believe were the 96 and 102A's......

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Crashed MC-12 #2048 now abandoned: https://www.flickr.com/photos/thomashawk/16801969167.

So, apparently, Greyhound Denver is "hoarding" X3-45s for use in the West. I don't understand this either. I thought Dallas did all the dispatching. Rumors are that Denver either has no X3-45 parts or doesn't know how to maintain X3-45s. I'd lean towards the former.

 

[railiner]

That's actually not a bad idea. Tho shore power can be a problem when it comes to cost. Another option would b auxiliary power units. Yes, they take up some room but are worth it. A lot if trucks have them, they operate hvac and most electrical systems. They also will start automatically when the engine is shut off and run off either diesel from the vehicle tank or off of batteries that recharge while driving. The one that I had on the truck I drove would also keep the engine block and oil warm in the winter so it wouldn't freeze up. Greyhound would benefit from it a lot.

Most of our buses have some type of Webasto or other preheater, that can be set to run on a timer, or turned on manually. They help heat up a cold engine. The ones in the Van Hools even circulate hot water thru the coach 'baseboard' heating system. All while the engine is shut off, or started for faster warm-ups.

As for "APU"'s ....don't most motorhome or entertainer coaches have some type of generator set in the baggage bay or roof mounted?

 

[railiner]

I just heard they sent a X3-45 on Denver-El Paso even though it was based in the East. Greyhound needs to get their dispatching straight. I don't know why they sent a Blue G to the East and a X3-45 down to El Paso. Perhaps there was too much Package Express? Well, now that X3-45 is going to have tons of trouble trying to get back east. And apparently Denver Maintenance refuses to fix X3-45s.

Also, I heard 1684 had a double that was a White G! They must have had tons of Package Express to not send out the X3-45. 1684 got delayed due to snow.

Anybody know what "peddle down" means? And is a "double" an extra section? I think that's what it means since 1684's double would've been 1684-2.

If I were the dispatcher, I would've sent the X3-45 back east to New York City and the Blue G to El Paso or maybe Portland. This doesn't make sense. All I can say is that maybe Greyhound has too much Package Express to haul. Denver should be all-Blue G in that case. X3-45s should stay East. I wonder if Denver-El Paso has much GPX, probably not.

A 'double' is a second section.

Where did you hear "peddle down"? In what context? Back in the CB Radio days...."Put the pedal to the metal", or "Hammer Down", was a common slang term to indicate that "Smoky The Bear".(state trooper's) were not around, and that it was 'safe' to speed above the "double-nickel" 55 MPH national speed limit....

Agree with your assessment of equipment usage. I will say that sometimes, a driver may find a coach defective, and may choose whatever else is handy, to avoid delaying a departure any further. So sometimes the "wrong bus" may be sent on a schedule. Eventually it will be sent back "where it belongs."

 

[mightyjoe1201]

Yes they do. A friend of my boss drives a prevost entertainer bus that has it in the baggage area. Don't know if it is all electric or if it's diesel powered tho. He says it does a pretty good job. It looks like it doesn't take up much space either

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Earl said it was "1684 eastbound peddle down", in that context.

What I really found weird is the report that Denver was "hoarding" X3-45s. They've been (rarely) running X3-45s on Denver-Portland instead of the standard D4505 or Blue G. Heck, all the Denver routes seem to see all the bus models.

Anyway, I found this presentation on engine fires: http://www.buses.org/files/BISC/2014_winter/presentations/Huczek-Jason-Motorcoach-Fires.pdf.

They showed models of MCI, Prevost, and Van Hool engine compartments, explaining why fires happen.

 

[railiner]

Earl said it was "1684 eastbound peddle down", in that context.

"Eastbound and Down" by Jerry Reed...make sure you've "got your ears on" for this link.....enjoy.....