Heartland Flyer Meeting

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

https://csanders429.wordpress.com/2016/10/31/hearing-examines-heartland-flyer-operation/

My opinion is Oklahoma residents want to travel to Texas (Ft. Worth) than the other way around. It would seem more Oklahoma residents travel on the HF than Texas residents. Then again, the Dallas/Ft. Worth area gets many more visitors. Which state benefits more?

If the train just serves Ft. Worth, I don't see it different than the Hoosier State (Illinois doesn't pay do they?)

 

[Devil's Advocate]

So far as I can tell the HF's schedule is rubbish for TX residents. I looked into using the HF to take in an OKC Thunder game. Unfortunately the HF can't get me in early enough for a nighttime game and expects me to be up again at the crack of dawn after a night out on the town for its once a day trip back to TX. No thanks.

Edited to fix my bassackward initials for the Heartland Flyer.

 

[cirdan]

It's very difficult to know who benefits most and how much value is created in which state. For this you would have to do detailed surveys of the ridership and find out why they ae riding and what they are doing when they're there and how much they are spending and what effect this is having on the local economy there (multiplier effects and such). Such detailed surveys could easily end up costing in the same ballpark as the train itself.

Sometimes you just have to trust your gut instinct rather than investigate things to death.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Many folks ride the Heartland Flyer to connect with the Texas Eagle, and since there is no train to connect with on the OKC end (only a night bus to connect with the Southwest Chief), it only makes sense the heaviest ridership is to the south.

 

[Eric S]

Sort of the nature of the beast when we're stuck with just a single train a day.

And OlympianHiawatha basically beat me to the punch.

 

[afigg]

It's very difficult to know who benefits most and how much value is created in which state. For this you would have to do detailed surveys of the ridership and find out why they ae riding and what they are doing when they're there and how much they are spending and what effect this is having on the local economy there (multiplier effects and such). Such detailed surveys could easily end up costing in the same ballpark as the train itself.

Sometimes you just have to trust your gut instinct rather than investigate things to death.

Why would ridership surveys cost that much? Amtrak, as any transportation business would, does passenger surveys from time to time. Amtrak certainly knows where most of the passengers are coming from, since the vast majority of tickets are likely paid for with debit and credit cards, so they can dump zip code data for where the ticket buyers live. So they know how many OK residents are traveling to FTW, how many TX residents travel to OK, how many connect to the TE, and so on. For more data on how much money the passengers are spending, a survey or data mining from credit companies can fill a lot of that info in.

The Heartland Flyer is not having a good year for ridership. As of the August monthly report, for the first 11 months of FY2016, ridership was 61,864; down -4.2% from the previous year.

 

[amtkstn]

Most days the Flyer is two cars and all the passengers can fit in one car. On my last trip in April there were a lot of seats mot being used.

 

[Palmetto]

As always, the route needs more frequencies, with better connectivity to the north. Taking the train from Purcell, let's say, to St. Louis would be an ordeal, as just one example.

 

[Eric S]

As always, the route needs more frequencies, with better connectivity to the north. Taking the train from Purcell, let's say, to St. Louis would be an ordeal, as just one example.

Yep. Two trains/day, one in the morning, one in the afternoon/evening, opens up so many travel options that are virtually impossible, or at least less than tempting to most travelers, today.

And the Thruway connection Oklahoma City-Wichita-Newton is at least a *start* in offering some connectivity to the north.

But I'm not especially optimistic that some combination of KS-OK-TX will be jumping to fund either a second train or extending the existing train north of OKC. Right now the struggle seems to be to keep the existing service running.

 

[tonys96]

DA is right. The schedule favors traveling southbound. If one would want to make a weekend in OKC and spend some $$$$ there, you would have to make it a three day weekend......no good.

 

[DryCreek]

DA is right. The schedule favors traveling southbound. If one would want to make a weekend in OKC and spend some $$$$ there, you would have to make it a three day weekend......no good.

This is precisely correct. When my wife and I went up for a weekend, we arrived late Friday night and walked to our hotel in the Brickyard, had all day Saturday to get in some sightseeing, and the hoofed it back to the depot for an early Sunday return. Of course, the trip was half of the adventure...

Now, if they did have two trains daily, how would you connect? We rode 22 from CBR to FTW to connect, and then returned on 21. If I wanted to get on the early train, I'd have to drive to FTW and then find and pay for parking. Not my idea of starting out on a fun trip. I think that the inconvenient schedule has a lot to do with connecting with the TE. Maybe if they could extend the TRE down to Austin? With three FTW-AUS round trips daily?

 

[saxman]

With a single train per day, you can't make everyone happy. Ultimately what wins out is the connections to the Texas Eagle. Maybe we'll have corridor service to Austin-SA one day...

 

[Palmetto]

I think the UP is "in the way" concerning upped service between Austin and San Antonio. They pulled out of a pact in the last several months that would have allowed a nice service between those two cities. And: the Republic of Texas DOT could really care less, it seems.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Maybe we'll have corridor service to Austin-SA one day...

&

I think the UP is "in the way" concerning upped service between Austin and San Antonio. They pulled out of a pact in the last several months that would have allowed a nice service between those two cities. And the Republic of Texas DOT could really care less, it seems.

So far as I am aware every version of the proposed SAS-AUS corridor project is dead at this point.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Yep, all the various schemes involving Austin to anywhere Rail are DOA!!

"Liberal" Austin is fast becoming Anti-everything just like Bright Red Texas as New people move here and the Taxes continue to Rise!!

 

[MikeM]

One helpful suggestion - have stations open! Last time I rode the train, the Gainesville TX station was all locked down. Asked the train crew about it, they couldn't remember when it was unlocked. So about a dozen of us stood around under the eves waiting for the train in the rain. Nice waiting room, but doesn't do much good when it's closed down.

 

[DryCreek]

One helpful suggestion - have stations open! Last time I rode the train, the Gainesville TX station was all locked down. Asked the train crew about it, they couldn't remember when it was unlocked. So about a dozen of us stood around under the eves waiting for the train in the rain. Nice waiting room, but doesn't do much good when it's closed down.

We have the same issue with CBR. If it is after hours, a weekend, or holiday, the station is closed. That's not very convenient during inclement weather. Now, when it is open, it's a very nice place.

 

[Palmetto]

Perhaps TxARP ought to do something about this? Perhaps volunteers to open the waiting room around train times?

Then again, I used to be a member of this group, but gave up owing to the fact that they did zero to buy the recently torn up UP mainline through Brownsville. You know: the track that would be used by passenger trains envisioned in the 15-year old Texas Rail Plan that no one in Brownsville has heard of.

Sad state of affairs.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

One helpful suggestion - have stations open! Last time I rode the train, the Gainesville TX station was all locked down. Asked the train crew about it, they couldn't remember when it was unlocked. So about a dozen of us stood around under the eves waiting for the train in the rain. Nice waiting room, but doesn't do much good when it's closed down.

The Oklahoma stations do have local volunteers who open the stations for the southbound (morning) run. And many of them even take time to get a pot of coffee going. Throw in free parking which most also have and it makes for a nice way to start your Amtrak run.

 

[Palmetto]

One helpful suggestion - have stations open! Last time I rode the train, the Gainesville TX station was all locked down. Asked the train crew about it, they couldn't remember when it was unlocked. So about a dozen of us stood around under the eves waiting for the train in the rain. Nice waiting room, but doesn't do much good when it's closed down.

The Oklahoma stations do have local volunteers who open the stations for the southbound (morning) run. And many of them even take time to get a pot of coffee going. Throw in free parking which most also have and it makes for a nice way to start your Amtrak run.

That's good. Texas should follow suit.

 

[saxman]

One helpful suggestion - have stations open! Last time I rode the train, the Gainesville TX station was all locked down. Asked the train crew about it, they couldn't remember when it was unlocked. So about a dozen of us stood around under the eves waiting for the train in the rain. Nice waiting room, but doesn't do much good when it's closed down.

We have the same issue with CBR. If it is after hours, a weekend, or holiday, the station is closed. That's not very convenient during inclement weather. Now, when it is open, it's a very nice place.

I've boarded and alighted at CBR quite a few times and can't remember if I've ever been there on a weekend. It's been open for me though. Perhaps I can email a TEMPO person. It's not good to have stations locked, and CBR's calling times are actually pretty convenient!

 

[DryCreek]

One helpful suggestion - have stations open! Last time I rode the train, the Gainesville TX station was all locked down. Asked the train crew about it, they couldn't remember when it was unlocked. So about a dozen of us stood around under the eves waiting for the train in the rain. Nice waiting room, but doesn't do much good when it's closed down.

We have the same issue with CBR. If it is after hours, a weekend, or holiday, the station is closed. That's not very convenient during inclement weather. Now, when it is open, it's a very nice place.

I've boarded and alighted at CBR quite a few times and can't remember if I've ever been there on a weekend. It's been open for me though. Perhaps I can email a TEMPO person. It's not good to have stations locked, and CBR's calling times are actually pretty convenient!

I can tell you that on our big trip out to Tucson last year, the day we boarded it was raining cats and dogs. There were about seven of us waiting that day, so not much room for us to huddle out of the rain. The area around the benches under that small overhang were flooding. The wind kicked up and we were soaked by the time the already late 21/421 arrived. Things went downhill from there as we were bused from Temple (arrived at about 10 p.m.) to S.A. (arrived at 4 a.m.).

I must agree though, when the TE is running on time the station stop hours are great for us. Plus the free parking and dining options in Cleburne make it a great home station. I just wish that it was closer. It would be nice if a similar station was in Meridian or Clifton.