Hoosier State Going from IPH Back to Amtrak

[jis]

More on the subject from INDOT.

http://wlfi.com/2017/01/30/hoosier-state-changes-over-to-amtrak-beginning-in-march/

Amtrak is taking over the fulfillment of the operating contract (and apparently not service level part of it) for the balance of the time of the contract that IP is unable to fulfill. The break was initiated by IP.

 

[Bob Dylan]

It was fun while it lasted!

As several of our members say, catch it while you can when it comes to uniuque trains and special routes!

( I wasn't among those fortunate ones who got to ride the IP run CONO excursions or Hoosier State Trains!)

 

[seat38a]

Well theres been plenty of ranting and raving about how good the BC product was and why Amtrak couldn't do the same thing, shame on Amtrak etc. etc.. Well the only one laughing now is Amtrak. Can't say I didn't see thing coming. As a former idealist, turned realist, there are no such things as rainbow unicorns!

 

[Seaboard92]

I can say I know several people whom have completed work for IPH and are still waiting on checks from last year. IPH is in major trouble not just the train they ran for Indiana.

 

[me_little_me]

Amtrak is taking over the fulfillment of the operating contract (and apparently not service level part of it) for the balance of the time of the contract that IP is unable to fulfill.

Uh! Oh! Back to dirty bathrooms?

 

[seat38a]

Amtrak is taking over the fulfillment of the operating contract (and apparently not service level part of it) for the balance of the time of the contract that IP is unable to fulfill.

Uh! Oh! Back to dirty bathrooms?

Would you rather have no train at all, or suck it up with the dirty bathrooms?

 

[Palmetto]

I'd rather have both multiple train frequencies / and clean bathrooms.

Whatever happened to the Midwest High Speed Rail Initiative, anyway?

 

[John Bobinyec]

But why were the bathrooms dirty? Were the overnight cleaning crews not doing a proper job or did the bathrooms start out on a trip being clean and then became dirty enroute? When the latter happens, there's not much to do except tolerate it - after all who was it that got the bathrooms dirty in the first place?

jb

 

[Riverviewer]

Local coverage, courtesy of the Lafayette (IN) Journal & Courier:

http://www.jconline.com/story/money/2017/01/30/indot-yanks-hoosier-state-train-contract/97257928/

 

[jis]

Reading that article it seems like IP mistakenly bid under cost for the contract, and tried to get that fixed down the line, and INDOT baulked.

What we learn from the article is that $500,000 is not enough to cover the cost of what IP was providing - equipment lease and OBS over 18 months. They are getting $300,000 more to run it for another month, which presumably recoups some of the previous shortfall too.

In short, they were apparently taking a financial bath to provide the service they were providing.

My understanding is that all the cost of equipment move etc. is not on IP's plate. That is paid for by INDOT directly to Amtrak - part of the $3.9 million.

It will be interesting to see what happens after June, and even before that how much Amtrak and INDOT settle on for Amtrak to provide the service that IP was providing. The issue of equipment usage charges comes up again, where Amtrak has apparently tried to strong arm both New York and Pennsylvania in the past and ultimately backed off.

 

[rtabern]

Amtrak is taking over the fulfillment of the operating contract (and apparently not service level part of it) for the balance of the time of the contract that IP is unable to fulfill.

Uh! Oh! Back to dirty bathrooms?

Would you rather have no train at all, or suck it up with the dirty bathrooms?

No trains at all, honestly... atleast for me. I like train travel... but heck... I have no problem just driving or flying than deal with a filthy train -- especially nasty bathrooms. Who else is with me? That is just gross.

We're not made of money, but we would gladly pay more for a train with nice services and amenities like Iowa Pacific was offering or the Canadian or the Parlour Cars on the Coast Starlight. Amtrak's increasingly lazy and surly employees... insane boarding procedures now in Chicago for coach passengers, combined with food service cuts (Silver Star, Hiawatha, etc.) and food downgrades (Cardinal, City of New Orleans, etc.)... increasing prices for sleepers... and the poor value Amtrak Guest Rewards has become... has lead to us flying and driving a lot more in the past two years. I used to maybe spend 20-25 overnights a year on Amtrak in a sleeper. In 2017, it will be down to just 2 overnights. Those little cuts here and there do add up, atleast in my book, and make train travel less appealing. I am definitely not going on a train with nasty bathrooms. No, thanks. For the money you spend on a sleeper you can fly first class on most major air carriers.

 

[jis]

Unfortunately we are again moving away from focusing on details of Hoosier State, IPH, INDOT and Amtrak issue, to more general stuff. We have multitude of other threads to ***** about Amtrak, so let us not add this thread to that collection while losing focus.

 

[A Voice]

Local coverage, courtesy of the Lafayette (IN) Journal & Courier:

http://www.jconline.com/story/money/2017/01/30/indot-yanks-hoosier-state-train-contract/97257928/

From the tone of that article, I'm wondering if Iowa Pacific (IP) is really as bankrupt as we've assumed (and is rumored), or if they just had to get out from under a money losing contract. Clearly there are financial problems at IP, else they would have continued, and given reports of layoffs and curtailed operations the issues are serious. But is the company as a whole going belly up?

 

[Lonestar648]

If their CFO and CEO were on top of their business operations, a separate corporation would have been created just for the Hoosier contract. The primary corporation usually protects itself from unproven operations. I do not know if IP has done this, but if they haven't, and the other operations are marginal, the whole company could crash.

 

[Maglev]

When I rode the Cardinal from Washington to Chicago (departing Sunday, January 22), we picked up what I think was a complete Hoosier State train set (locomotive, dome, and two coaches) in Indianapolis and towed it to Chicago. Are deadhead moves such as this a regular part of Iowa Pacific's service?

 

[jis]

I think the thing that some are missing here is that it is not Hoosier State that caused the problem in IPH, The fact that they are shedding the Hoosier State is a result of other problems in IPH. As Seaboard will explain, Hoosier State is not the first thing they have shed in the current blood letting. Saratoga and North Creek Winter Operations was discontinue way before they came to Hoosier State. Many others who have provided service to IPH remain unpaid to this date.

 

[Seaboard92]

Local coverage, courtesy of the Lafayette (IN) Journal & Courier:

http://www.jconline.com/story/money/2017/01/30/indot-yanks-hoosier-state-train-contract/97257928/

From the tone of that article, I'm wondering if Iowa Pacific (IP) is really as bankrupt as we've assumed (and is rumored), or if they just had to get out from under a money losing contract. Clearly there are financial problems at IP, else they would have continued, and given reports of layoffs and curtailed operations the issues are serious. But is the company as a whole going belly up?

The entire company is going belly up. And has been for the last two years. For an example (not the Hoosier State) the Piedmont and Northern train to Christmas town. (For the record very hard to lose money on Christmas trains) First year of operation (2015) ran too many trains and ended up losing money.

Second year

In November prior to his trains running he didn't pay for the lot he was using for his station in a nice neighborhood. Forced to move to a rough neighborhood for it.

Trains supposed to start Black Friday. Unable to start due to no equipment available.

December rescheduled week one (dec first week) forced to cancel because the hodge podge of card weren't ready. Disgusting cars as well that didn't match and mechanically were awful.

Second week of December. New start date. Locomotives ordered still weren't there ended up leasing a MP15E from NS and a CSX SD50-2. Ran first trips.

Third week of December the promised F units finically arrived. But arrived inoperable.

Fourth week still running with the leased freight engines.

That's the state of IP on what should be a profitable and easy to run train

 

[CoachSlumber]

Local coverage, courtesy of the Lafayette (IN) Journal & Courier:

http://www.jconline.com/story/money/2017/01/30/indot-yanks-hoosier-state-train-contract/97257928/

From the tone of that article, I'm wondering if Iowa Pacific (IP) is really as bankrupt as we've assumed (and is rumored), or if they just had to get out from under a money losing contract. Clearly there are financial problems at IP, else they would have continued, and given reports of layoffs and curtailed operations the issues are serious. But is the company as a whole going belly up?

Are they showing any signs of planning or running any excursions right now? Not a good sign. And Ellis's own FB page has been quiet.

 

[keelhauled]

When I rode the Cardinal from Washington to Chicago (departing Sunday, January 22), we picked up what I think was a complete Hoosier State train set (locomotive, dome, and two coaches) in Indianapolis and towed it to Chicago. Are deadhead moves such as this a regular part of Iowa Pacific's service?

Yes. I forget the exact pattern but I think they happen once a week in each direction. My understanding is Indiana pays Amtrak to handle the deadheading equipment.

 

[Hotblack Desiato]

I'd rather have both multiple train frequencies / and clean bathrooms.

Whatever happened to the Midwest High Speed Rail Initiative, anyway?

Whatever happened to the money to implement it?

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

It will be interesting to see what happens after June, and even before that how much Amtrak and INDOT settle on for Amtrak to provide the service that IP was providing. The issue of equipment usage charges comes up again, where Amtrak has apparently tried to strong arm both New York and Pennsylvania in the past and ultimately backed off.

Equipment for the Hoosier State? Got a couple of Talgo set sitting near office of the InDOT. Just in case Amtrak get too frisky with the usage charges for 20 year equipment with original seats and carpets. Comes with its own maintenance team.

 

[edjbox]

I remember last year Iowa Pacific was mentioned as being a candidate to operate the Heartland Flyer service that Amtrak operates now. That route I believe might be a better candidate for Iowa Pacific than the Hoosier State was, since it is a daily route, tracks are better, etc. Also, the current Amtrak Superliner equipment and locomotives could be better used somewhere else in the system rather than being stuck in Fort Worth (where no other trains terminate/originate plus only one other train passes through).

Perhaps Iowa Pacific wanted to end their contract on the quad-weekly and slow Hoosier State in order to look at making a serious bid on a train like the Heartland Flyer. Unless Iowa Pacific is really in trouble (as mentioned earlier in this topic) they could make their Heartland Flyer work.

 

[PerRock]

It will be interesting to see what happens after June, and even before that how much Amtrak and INDOT settle on for Amtrak to provide the service that IP was providing. The issue of equipment usage charges comes up again, where Amtrak has apparently tried to strong arm both New York and Pennsylvania in the past and ultimately backed off.

Equipment for the Hoosier State? Got a couple of Talgo set sitting near office of the InDOT. Just in case Amtrak get too frisky with the usage charges for 20 year equipment with original seats and carpets. Comes with its own maintenance team.

From my understanding, those are heading out west to CA.

peter

 

[A Voice]

Local coverage, courtesy of the Lafayette (IN) Journal & Courier:

http://www.jconline.com/story/money/2017/01/30/indot-yanks-hoosier-state-train-contract/97257928/

From the tone of that article, I'm wondering if Iowa Pacific (IP) is really as bankrupt as we've assumed (and is rumored), or if they just had to get out from under a money losing contract. Clearly there are financial problems at IP, else they would have continued, and given reports of layoffs and curtailed operations the issues are serious. But is the company as a whole going belly up?

The entire company is going belly up. And has been for the last two years. For an example (not the Hoosier State) the Piedmont and Northern train to Christmas town. (For the record very hard to lose money on Christmas trains)First year of operation (2015) ran too many trains and ended up losing money.

Second year

In November prior to his trains running he didn't pay for the lot he was using for his station in a nice neighborhood. Forced to move to a rough neighborhood for it.

Trains supposed to start Black Friday. Unable to start due to no equipment available.

December rescheduled week one (dec first week) forced to cancel because the hodge podge of card weren't ready. Disgusting cars as well that didn't match and mechanically were awful.

Second week of December. New start date. Locomotives ordered still weren't there ended up leasing a MP15E from NS and a CSX SD50-2. Ran first trips.

Third week of December the promised F units finically arrived. But arrived inoperable.

Fourth week still running with the leased freight engines.

That's the state of IP on what should be a profitable and easy to run train

Thanks for the explanation. Sounds like they should have been shuttering operations - and selling off equipment - long ago.

It will be interesting to see what happens after June, and even before that how much Amtrak and INDOT settle on for Amtrak to provide the service that IP was providing. The issue of equipment usage charges comes up again, where Amtrak has apparently tried to strong arm both New York and Pennsylvania in the past and ultimately backed off.

Equipment for the Hoosier State? Got a couple of Talgo set sitting near office of the InDOT. Just in case Amtrak get too frisky with the usage charges for 20 year equipment with original seats and carpets. Comes with its own maintenance team.

The Talgo sets are, as already noted, bound for California. At this point in the Nippon-Sharyo fiasco, the Midwest states surely wish those Horizon cars were only twenty years old (they're approaching 30). .

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

From my understanding, those (Talgo) are heading out west to CA.

peter

My understanding too, and yet they have not left. The Talgo are still in Indiana with no published date to be leaving for California.