Hoosier State/Iowa Pacific Transition Thread

[Ryan]

That's disappointing, unless Amtrak knows something that we don't.

 

[user 1215]

I am sorry to hear of the Hoosier State's discontinuance but all is not lost. The Cardinal still runs from Indianapolis to Chicago three days per week.

Somehow I don't think that helps people who use the train for their daily commute.

These trains aren't for daily commuters. The closest station to Chicago on the Hoosier State/Cardinal is Dyer, IN. If you are commuting, you're going to pay $24/day round trip for a job in Chicago that you can only be at for 7 hours?

Maybe it's critical for those living in Lafayette who work in the tiny town of Rensselaer.

Relying on the Cardinal for your JOB is pretty irresponsible considering its ontime performance.

Don't mean to come across as snarky, but let's keep it real.

I don't disagree with daily service, but it's for long distance passengers, not commuters. But I don't think it was the Hoosier State that was in the way. The Cardinal could have absorbed that decades ago. As others have mentioned, I still think that the blockade to daily service is Buckingham Branch.

 

[jis]

I suspect Amtrak expects that a solution would be worked out.

BTW, isn't there this 6 month or whatever notice thing? Or does that not apply because the Cardinal will continue to serve the route?

 

[Metra Electric Guest]

These trains aren't for daily commuters. The closest station to Chicago on the Hoosier State/Cardinal is Dyer, IN. If you are commuting, you're going to pay $24/day round trip for a job in Chicago that you can only be at for 7 hours?

If you live in Dyer and work in the loop and want to commute by train you hop in your car and drive over to Illinois and take Metra Electric. My coworker does just that and says the parking lot is usually between 25%/ one third Indiana cars. They chose Metra over NICTD for cheaper fares and more frequent trains (and for many, it's quicker to get to the stations in Illinois than say Hammond).

And this is totally irrelevant to this thread. I'm still appalled that Indiana is as anti-rail as it is. Unfortunately, as any reasonable Chicago-East Coast connections need to go through Indiana, I can't picture a round the lake via Sault Ste. Marie and Canuckia to New York connection being realistic (though it might be very scenic).

 

[jis]

As long as it is a National Network train say - NYP to CHI or STL, it does not matter whether Indiana is pro-rail or anti-rail. What matters more is getting reasonably priced trackage on CSX and NS.

It on;y n the case of state funded PRIIA 209 trains that it matters how Indiana feels about funding such or not.

 

[John Bredin]

I suspect Amtrak expects that a solution would be worked out.

Or would run a Thruway bus in lieu of the Hoosier State and honor post-4/1 reservations on that bus. Amtrak runs a fair number of Thruway routes without state support, IIRC, including as feeders to the LD trains.

 

[jis]

Typically Thruway buses require an attached train leg in the itinerary, but there could be exceptions I suppose.

 

[PRR 60]

Typically Thruway buses require an attached train leg in the itinerary, but there could be exceptions I suppose.

Seattle to Vancouver BC is one such exception where a bus can be booked without an associated train segment.

 

[jis]

Looks like there are 4 Thruway buses from CHI to IND (all must book with train) and the bus is faster than the train.

 

[MrFSS]

U.S. Sen. Dan Coats wants to save the Hoosier State — the passenger rail route, that is.

The Indiana republican sent a letter to the Federal Railroad Administration asking it to reconsider a position that the state says dooms the Amtrak line.



The Indiana Department of Transportation announced last week that the Indianapolis-to-Chicago four-days-a-week train will stop running April 1. The agency says the federal rail agency’s insistence that the state act as the rail carrier under a new proposed partnership is too expensive to keep the train alive.

LINK

 

[afigg]

Fred Frailey of Trains Magazine has a column on what the FRA is up and the dispute which provides more information: FRA must hate passenger trains (available to all). What the heck is going on at the FRA? Is this something that was in the planning stages while Szabo was running the agency or is something that the upper level staff are now moving ahead on because they have an acting head of the agency who has no background in railroad operations at all?

Excerpts:

I have gotten from three state government sources some clarification of what the real issue is between the Federal Railroad Administration and the Indiana Department of Transportation, and it is a bit bizarre. By the end of this year, the FRA expects to have rules in effect that require all state governments that subsidize passenger train services to register with the agency as railroads. FRA’s intentions were revealed to state transportation officials on February 17 at a meeting in Washington, D.C.

This strange and abrupt course of action is almost certain to ignite a firestorm of protests. Already, Indiana, the first state to be confronted by this requirement, has said it will drop support for the Hoosier State and that the Chicago-to-Indianapolis train will cease to exist at the end of this month (see "The Great Hoosier State Fiasco"). Besides Indiana, seven other states that underwrite Amtrak trains are led by Republican governors, few of whom are likely to welcome this intrusion of the federal government into the affairs of their administrations.

....

Then last month in Washington, at a meeting of the American Association of State Transportation Officials, Paul Nissenbaum, FRA’s deputy administrator for railroad policy, laid out the plan going forward. By late spring, he said, FRA will publish its interim policy in the Federal Register, starting a 60-day comment period. A final policy will be issued late this summer or early fall. “We want to get this right,” he told the meeting, inviting feedback and comments.

 

[MrFSS]

30 day extension given.

http://www.jconline.com/story/news/2015/03/13/hoosier-state-line-gets-day-extension/70283594/

 

[Ryan]

Excellent - hopefully the FRA is made to see the light.

 

[afigg]

30 day extension given.

http://www.jconline.com/story/news/2015/03/13/hoosier-state-line-gets-day-extension/70283594/

The Hoosier State may indeed survive and keep running. If this eventually leads to a daily HS on a separate schedule from the Cardinal, the drama and risk taken will be worth it. Because the next step after that would be annual capital investment funding from the state to incrementally improve the service.

Relevant excerpt from the news article:

Officially, INDOT said the announcement Friday followed a phone call between officials from the Federal Railroad Administration and INDOT Commissioner Karl Browning. During the conversation, Sarah Feinberg, acting commissioner for the railroad administration, indicated the federal agency would reconsider the position that would force the end of the Hoosier State passenger line, according to INDOT.

Certainly appears that the backlash and protests from the states and the Senators & Congressman is causing the FRA to back down. Would not be surprised if in a few weeks or months, the FRA quietly announces on a late Friday afternoon that they are dropping their plan entirely for extensive new regulations for the state DOTs.

 

[neroden]

Fred Frailey of Trains Magazine has a column on what the FRA is up and the dispute which provides more information: FRA must hate passenger trains (available to all). What the heck is going on at the FRA? Is this something that was in the planning stages while Szabo was running the agency or is something that the upper level staff are now moving ahead on because they have an acting head of the agency who has no background in railroad operations at all?

Excerpts:

I have gotten from three state government sources some clarification of what the real issue is between the Federal Railroad Administration and the Indiana Department of Transportation, and it is a bit bizarre. By the end of this year, the FRA expects to have rules in effect that require all state governments that subsidize passenger train services to register with the agency as railroads. FRA’s intentions were revealed to state transportation officials on February 17 at a meeting in Washington, D.C.

This strange and abrupt course of action is almost certain to ignite a firestorm of protests. Already, Indiana, the first state to be confronted by this requirement, has said it will drop support for the Hoosier State and that the Chicago-to-Indianapolis train will cease to exist at the end of this month (see "The Great Hoosier State Fiasco"). Besides Indiana, seven other states that underwrite Amtrak trains are led by Republican governors, few of whom are likely to welcome this intrusion of the federal government into the affairs of their administrations.

....

Then last month in Washington, at a meeting of the American Association of State Transportation Officials, Paul Nissenbaum, FRA’s deputy administrator for railroad policy, laid out the plan going forward. By late spring, he said, FRA will publish its interim policy in the Federal Register, starting a 60-day comment period. A final policy will be issued late this summer or early fall. “We want to get this right,” he told the meeting, inviting feedback and comments.

North Carolina will probably sue. California will probably sue. Illinois will probably sue. New York will probably sue. Maine will probably sue. (Not to mention Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Michigan, Oregon, Washington, Oklahoma, Texas, Missouri, Pennsylvania, and probably Maryland and Florida as well.) They're going to get stomped on by Congressmen from all over and Amtrak is going to file a complaint as well. What is Nissenbaum thinking? Was he tricked into this by crooked execs at the Class Is?
Or is the FRA simply living up to the nickname I gave it a few years back, the Federal Prevention of Railroad Service Administration? Frankly, it should be abolished.

 

[jis]

FRA first needs to explain what exactly is wrong with the status quo, and what problems has it led to that the new proposed policy is trying to address. Their current explanation is pretty wishy-washy to say the least. Otherwise it seems like a bunch of bureaucrats trying to justify their presence by doing something .... anything.

 

[Who's Your Fate]

Szabo hate passenger trains???

Amtrak loves Szabo! http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-83020927/

...or at least Boardman does.

 

[MikefromCrete]

Szabo hate passenger trains???

Amtrak loves Szabo! http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-83020927/

...or at least Boardman does.

Szabo is no longer with the Federal Railroad Administration.

 

[Whoose Your Scape]

Gee whiz. This site needs to lighten up. Who said Szabo is still with the FRA? Why are posters here so often eager to assume other posters are ignorant when compared to themselves?

My comment was in reference to a post quoted two posts before my earlier one which wondered if the mess in Indiana was in the works when Szabo was still at the FRA.

 

[NorthShore]

Gee, if they could get some Szbaro pizza and pasta on this route, it could really make a difference.

 

[me_little_me]

Gee, if they could get some Szbaro pizza and pasta on this route, it could really make a difference.

But not for the better. and Sbarro Pizza is worse.

 

[CHamilton]

U.S. Sen. Dan Coats wants to save the Hoosier State — the passenger rail route, that is.

The Indiana republican sent a letter to the Federal Railroad Administration asking it to reconsider a position that the state says dooms the Amtrak line.



The Indiana Department of Transportation announced last week that the Indianapolis-to-Chicago four-days-a-week train will stop running April 1. The agency says the federal rail agency’s insistence that the state act as the rail carrier under a new proposed partnership is too expensive to keep the train alive.

LINK

This story is also discussed here: http://thehill.com/policy/transportation/235834-gop-senator-wants-to-save-indiana-amtrak-route

 

[afigg]

Fred Frailey of Trains Magazine posted a column on Sunday reporting that the FRA and INDOT may have reached an understanding, so the prospects of the HS surviving past the end of April are getting better: Hoosier State darts and laurels. The FRA clearly overreached on their attempt at new regulations.

Excerpt:

Indiana and the Federal Railroad Administration are reported to have smoked the peace pipe, as to the Chicago-Indianapolis Hoosier State. At issue was whether Indiana had to become a railroad under FRA’s supervision to insure that safety rules are obeyed. As I understand it, the two parties agreed to draw up a memorandum of understanding, thus ending a standoff that threatened to end the life of this state-supported passenger train.

The memorandum will spell out each party’s role in safely operating this train. FRA wants a impermeable chain of responsibility for its rail-safety regulations — someone to ultimately answer for all the bits and pieces of a train’s operation. A lofty goal, to be sure, but what a way to go about it . . . .

 

[neroden]

I am glad that Indiana DOT's decision to make publicity out of the FRA's bizarre behavior has resulted in FRA backing down.

(Kids, this is why sometimes you need to escalate conflicts and insult people and organizations in public. It seems clear that the worst would have happened if Indiana hadn't sicced newspapers and Congressmen on the FRA.)

 

[MrFSS]

From another forum. the rest of Mr Frailey's comments:

So now that a truce has been declared and participants have holstered their pistols, it’s time to issue darts and laurels to people and institutions.

DART to the Federal Railroad Administration. No no, guys, this isn’t the way to retain credibility. First of all, you acted like bullies. Second, you jumped first of all on the only two states that have acted to run part of their passenger services outside of Amtrak auspices, North Carolina and now Indiana, creating the impression you are in cahoots with Amtrak. And third, you unilaterally tried to impose an expensive, unwieldy (and possibly unconstitutional) process in order to increase your comfort level. Tsk tsk.

LAUREL to Indiana transportation commissioner Karl Browning. His goal all along has been to try to offer Hoosiers a better transportation product at lower cost. To his credit, INDOT has been almost totally transparent in pursuing this goal, documenting the entire process on its website. A lot of other states, unhappy at the high cost of their subsidies for shorter-distance passenger trains and at the total lack of transparency in Amtrak’s accounting practices, are watching how this attempt to go it alone plays out. Browning comes out of this looking like a strong leader and a straight shooter.

DART to acting FRA administrator Sarah Feinberg. I know her only by reputation, and it is that she is a smart, savvy, politically attuned person. So how on earth could she have been so tone deaf to the hue and cry that would erupt from 19 states when her agency wrote a rule requiring these states to take on the trappings of railroads? I mean, she is new to railroads but at least she’s supposed to have sharp political antennae. Those smarts deserted her on this.

DARTS to the other 17 affected state departments of transportation, who fiddled while North Carolina was being told to become a railroad in 2008 and then Indiana in 2015. You folks will be next. So where were you this time? Hiding behind your fear of FRA, perhaps. The time to push back on the Federal Railroad Administration’s ill-chosen decision is now, and the more publicly, the better.

LAUREL to Ed Ellis, president of Iowa Pacific Holdings, for sticking it out as the middle man. His short line company is to manage the Hoosier State and supply its equipment (Amtrak would continue to furnish engineers and conductors). I would not want to be in his shoes. Going forward, FRA people will arrive to inspect IPH passenger cars wearing white gloves and dark intentions, one suspects.—Fred W. Frailey