Horrific Timekeeping (Crescent and Silvers)

[drakejings]

The timekeeping of the Crescent, both trains 19 and 20 is abysmal. This situation has gone on for over half a year. The Silver Meteor and Silver Star are a bit better, but not much, and getting worse. Yes, customer relations have been helpful to me; travel vouchers to compensate for excessively late trains. However, that dance can get tiresome. I'm suspecting many passengers are just saying "NEVER AGAIN !"

No one really gives a damn what the reasons are, not when it's a daily occurrence. I can't help but think this is a case of deliberate neglect. I love the train, but I won't ride the Crescent; there's a limit, and my wife's limit is less than mine. So if you're driving me off, what does that say about the average customer?

I know that Mr. Anderson has some supporters on this site. I don't get it. Unless you're riding the Northeast Corridor, what is positive or progressive about Amtrak? Mr. Anderson won't communicate with railfan friendly media, aloof is the word that comes to mind. He should welcome our interest. We're not all "Bring back china to the dinner" types. The new Viewliner Diners are really nice, quite classy. They should be utilized better. But I'm afraid, like the long distance trains, Mr. Anderson really doesn't know what to do with them.

 

[John Bobinyec]

You raise many points. The only point that I'll address is that the Crescent timekeeping has been negatively affected recently by NS freight train interference. See this thread.

jb

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

Definitely many points, as John says. I will address the one about Richard Anderson. Yes, he does have some supporters here, and some willing to give him a chance.

However, look up a few threads, and you will see a "Fire Richard Anderson" thread that has many posts and lots of interesting content.

 

[frequentflyer]

The timekeeping of the Crescent, both trains 19 and 20 is abysmal. This situation has gone on for over half a year. The Silver Meteor and Silver Star are a bit better, but not much, and getting worse. Yes, customer relations have been helpful to me; travel vouchers to compensate for excessively late trains. However, that dance can get tiresome. I'm suspecting many passengers are just saying "NEVER AGAIN !"

No one really gives a damn what the reasons are, not when it's a daily occurrence. I can't help but think this is a case of deliberate neglect. I love the train, but I won't ride the Crescent; there's a limit, and my wife's limit is less than mine. So if you're driving me off, what does that say about the average customer?

I know that Mr. Anderson has some supporters on this site. I don't get it. Unless you're riding the Northeast Corridor, what is positive or progressive about Amtrak? Mr. Anderson won't communicate with railfan friendly media, aloof is the word that comes to mind. He should welcome our interest. We're not all "Bring back china to the dinner" types. The new Viewliner Diners are really nice, quite classy. They should be utilized better. But I'm afraid, like the long distance trains, Mr. Anderson really doesn't know what to do with them.

Amtrak trains have been late under all of Amtrak previous CEOs including the Great Mr. Claytor. Same reason, freight interference or equipment break down. What does this have to do with Anderson?

 

[west point]

Delays for the Crescent are complicated and different for separate sections of the route.

1. Laurel / Meridian <> Anniston is the first due to interference from the KCS meridian speedway entering south of Meridian station. Then the excess freight traffic from Meridian thru BHM to Aniston (ATN ). Freight traffic at BHM yard backed up trains into sidings waiting to get into the yard. Now the Chattanooga yard hump is restarting the load on BHM may be reduced ?

2. ATN <> ATL station is delayed by NS IM traffic that has to turn at Austell to the NS IM terminal on the Chattanooga line. As well there are both NS and CSX freight tracks that the Crescent must cross at Howell interlocking to get to the ATL station. Best times between ATN <> ATL are observed to be :30 under schedule but average :35 over schedule.

3. ATL <> Gastonia ( 22 miles west of Charlotte ) seems to loose an average of 10 - 20 minutes.

4. Gastonia <> Danville usually gains 30 - 45 minutes due to the 2 Main tracks from CLY - Greensboro enabling quick travel.

5. Danville <> WASH seems to be able to maintain schedule time to 10 minutes under.

Until NS can get enough track capacity from Meridian - ATL in our opinion the Crescent will continue to loose 2 - 4 hors each way.

In January when Crescent did not run south west of ATL it ran very close or under schedule arrivals in WASH.

 

[MikefromCrete]

The problems are basically with Norfolk Southern's handling of the train. Some of this results from interference from CSX. Write to the CEO's of these corporations as well as the Wall Street investors who think NS should be following in the steps of CSX and downgrading operations in order to make more money.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

No one really gives a damn what the reasons are, not when it's a daily occurrence. I can't help but think this is a case of deliberate neglect.

Deliberate neglect is easy enough.

Mr. Anderson won't communicate with railfan friendly media, aloof is the word that comes to mind.

Communication would help. Town Hall meeting in Chicago anyone?

But I'm afraid, like the long distance trains, Mr. Anderson really doesn't know what to do with them.

Back to deliberate neglect.

Amtrak trains have been late under all of Amtrak previous CEOs including the Great Mr. Claytor. Same reason, freight interference or equipment break down. What does this have to do with Anderson?

So we should just give up? Anderson the guy in charge, who else is going to fix this problem? Can I file a lawsuit against the freight railroads? How do I a simple passenger get my train to run on time?

 

[keelhauled]

How do I a simple passenger get my train to run on time?

I generally use prayer. Once or twice, it has even worked.

 

[Thirdrail7]

One of the things that was left out is the concepts discussed In the Longer & Longer consists thread. These longer trains are breaking apart and causing interference. Operationally, they may exceed the line profile of the railroad they are operating on. A CSX train had drawbar failure on the same subdivision a few days apart. It caused delays to trains throughout the region.

Until there are financial penalties severe enough to decide the risk isn't worth it, there isn't much Mr. Anderson can do accept file complaints...and sour relations with your hosts.

 

[drakejings]

Frequent Flyer, under the "Great Mr. Claytor" AutoTrain was started. Diners, in terms of food and service were better. Amtrak was more of a national system [The Pioneer and The Desert Wind]. The Twilight Shoreliner ran with a sleeper. Claytor was a railroad man AND a politician. Far from a recluse, he was advocating sensible expansion of Amtrak; very much in the public eye. Like David Gunn, L. Stanley Crane, and other notable railroad presidents, he got out on the line, rode the trains, and communicated. Yes, some trains ran late. But with all due respect, that generalization is a weak argument in excusing what many see [including Trains Magazine], as deliberate, or at the least, passive neglect.

 

[Thirdrail7]

If you're calling neglect, then you haven't followed ongoing court battles regarding Amtrak's OTP. After the Supreme Court kicked it down to a lower court last year, the appeals recently decided: Court ruling allows Amtrak, FRA to set on-time standards

Last week's ruling overturned a previous appellate court decision from 2015 that found a section of a 2008 law unconstitutional and allowed Amtrak to set standards that benefited its own interests, according to a press release issued by the Rail Passengers Association (RPA), which has filed an amicus curiae brief in the long-running case.

In a prepared statement, Amtrak officials expressed satisfaction with the ruling.

"Since this law was first overturned, we have seen continued deterioration of on-time performance over freight railroads driven primarily by freight-train interference," Amtrak officials said in an email. "This decision will allow the FRA to set on-time and other performance standards that would help ensure that our customers and the American taxpayer get the high-quality passenger service they deserve."

Arguing that it violated due process, the court also removed a portion of the law allowing Amtrak to create regulations for others in the “market” for rail right of way capacity, effectively viewing Amtrak as a competitor, RPA officials noted.

However, you can bet your bottom dollar on an appeal from the freight operators.

The comparison to David Gunn and Graham Claytor is irrelevant as there were different railroads, different philosophies and market conditions during their tenure. They may not fare that if they were presently serving as CEO. .

 

[daybeers]

I could be wrong, but I don't think the OP meant for the two paragraphs to be connected.

 

[AGM.12]

What has been Amtrak's on time performance on tracks it dispatches, as well as tracks operated by commuter rail operators?

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

The Silver Meteor and Silver Star are a bit better, but not much, and getting worse.

OK, I'll toss the gantlet down. What's your documentation supporting that the Silvers are getting worse, than say, 24 hours late?

 

[acelafan]

Here are some charts from ASMAD - arrivals on 91/97 at MIA and 92/98 at NYP.

Northbound Meteor (98) seems to have a slight upward trend since the spring.

 

[JRR]

The 97 Silver Meteor was about 1/2 hour early at DFB yesterday! That was a first for us. Always late on our other trips.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

Here are some charts from ASMAD - arrivals on 91/97 at MIA and 92/98 at NYP.

Northbound Meteor (98) seems to have a slight upward trend since the spring.

And how is this worse than anytime in the past?

 

[acelafan]

And how is this worse than anytime in the past?

I didn't look at all of them, but for #98 arriving at NYP Jan 1-July 31 of this year the average AR delay is 1 hour and 13 minutes late, median 42 minutes late.

For the same period in 2017 it was 57 minutes and 29 minutes late, respectively.

So yeah, it's worse this year.

 

[drakejings]

For June and July in 2017 the median delay for the Silver Meteor into NYP was 43 min. For July and August 2018 the median delay is 1 hour and 23 minutes. It's too early in the morning to look at the numbers for the Crescent. We can only hope that legislation allowing Amtrak to set on time standards won't be embroiled in the usual horse manure that takes forever to resolve. I'm looking at a by line from an issue of Trains Magazine from 2006; "Why Amtrak Is Always Late On CSX."

 

[GaSteve]

For June and July in 2017 the median delay for the Silver Meteor into NYP was 43 min. For July and August 2018 the median delay is 1 hour and 23 minutes. It's too early in the morning to look at the numbers for the Crescent. We can only hope that legislation allowing Amtrak to set on time standards won't be embroiled in the usual horse manure that takes forever to resolve. I'm looking at a by line from an issue of Trains Magazine from 2006; "Why Amtrak Is Always Late On CSX."

And of course the Crescent is on NS.

 

[drakejings]

The Crescent, train 20 has these median delays into NYP for July and August through the years. 2016 median delay 38 minutes, 2017 median delay 1 hour and 52 minutes, 2018 median delay 2 hours 13 minutes. GaSteve, that's why I said it was to early in the morning to look, I knew it would be grim.

Passengers will understand; it's freight train congestion, no it's a freight train derailment, no it's a heat restriction, no it's a signal malfunction, no it's CSX at Meridian, no it's Wick Moorman's Private Car slowing us down. As we all know, it's always something. And "always" is becoming much more frequent.

 

[west point]

Tour comparing the arrival time at NYP is not addressing the real problems of freight RRs. Almost every trip of silvers, Crescent, & Cardinal when operating on NEC north bound will have them being quicker than schedule. A better measurement is these trains arrivals at WASH.

 

[neroden]

It's been documented that most of the class I railroad managements are hardened professional criminals; they've been trained in a criminal culture of criminality to order their dispatchers to delay Amtrak trains, despite the fact that this has been illegal since day one.  When dealing with a host with a culture of criminality, there's only one thing which can get them to behave: take the tracks away from them.  Buy them.

There have been delays on state-owned or commuter-rail-owned tracks, but you don't see the same culture of criminality.  They're *trying*.  Similarly, BNSF's culture was reformed by Matt Rose, and CP's culture was, mysteriously, reformed recently.  UP is a mixed bag; I would guess the criminal culture is only in some departments.  The culture at NS was getting better but since Moorman left it has gotten worse. 

The culture at CSX and CN has been blatantly and consistently criminal for a long time.  Both also have a criminal culture of undermaintenance.  We can blame a lot of that on Hunter Harrison, whose timely death may help things somewhat; but it was bad before that.  They think they're above the law, but rather than waste time fighting them in court, the solution is to buy the tracks off them.

Because they're run by short-termers looking only at the next quarterly report, they WILL sell the tracks, and CSX did sell tracks to Massachusetts and "lease" them to NY, and CN sold tons of tracks to Ontario.  NS also sold tracks to Michigan. If they demand too much money, Congress members can threaten them until they charge a more reasonable price, which is what Massachusetts did.  I have no idea what's wrong with Virginia or Illinois, which are persistently not buying the tracks when they ought to, and as a result getting held up for ridiculous ransoms every couple of years over every little upgrade.  Virginia got looted for "Acca Yard Bypass tracks" three times, if I count correctly, all of which ended up being stolen by CSX for freight parking; CSX relies on the short memories of legislators.

I certainly don't trust NYS government with track ownership given its history of trying to dismantle operating railroad lines, but it's better than CSX.