Hover boards banned on Amtrak Trains

[jis]

I've seen stuff like this:

http://www.kodak.com/eknec/documents/6e/0900688a8088d86e/us_dot_ban.pdf

On August 9, 2007, the U.S. Department of Transportation’s Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration (PHMSA) issued a final rule banning or restricting the transport of non-rechargeable lithium batteries and devices shipped with these batteries aboard passenger aircraft. These new rules become effective on January 1, 2008 and can be found in their entirety in the August 9, 2007 edition of the Federal Register, which is accessible via the internet through http://www.gpoaccess.gov/fr/index.html. These new rules supplant emergency interim rules issued in December 2004. This summary applies to non-rechargeable lithium batteries shipped from, into or within the United States.

NON-RECHARGEABLE LITHIUM BATTERIES

The transport of any amount of non-rechargeable lithium batteries is prohibited aboard passenger aircraft except for personal use as noted in the DOT Safe Travel website. In addition, the outer shipping container of all packages containing non-rechargeable lithium batteries must be marked as stated below.

I don't have the time to read all of this:

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/lishipmentpolicy.PDF

They have labels for boxes.

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTg-j89yEjJFja87uPm2_C6g9oO3f37g4hMcQC8aZwTmdE374Il

Your links refer to shipping rules for air cargo while Jis is discussing carry-on luggage, which has a different set of rules. I don't fly as much as Jis does but my personal experience is that carrying large lithium ion batteries with you into the passenger cabin is of no particular problem so long as you are also carrying portable equipment that would explain their purpose and use. This includes lithium batteries that are both physically large and energy dense.

Yes. I concur. I have carried laptop with a large battery attached and a second battery in tow. Similarly for my DSLR camera I always carry a second charged battery properly stored in the protective plastic casing which prevents an accidental short circuit. No problem at all. That is the reason that I had explicitly asked both United and Lufthansa for an opinion before doing any such.

OTOH, putting any in checked baggage is a no ... no these days. So much so that you cannot place Christmas gifts that contain batteries in checked baggage. And by extension if you have such an item in checked baggage even without a battery in it, your friendly TSA might open your bag for visual inspection, silly as it may sound. Also raises some interesting issues in gate check situations. Moral of the story - better to ship such things by Fedex or UPS rather than try to place it in a large bag that you want to try to carry on board.

I am not in the battery wholesale business so I don't keep track of what rules apply to large shipments.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

There are already restrictions on lithium batteries for air travel.

Yep. Ask Boeing about its 787 lithium battery fires.

 

[jis]

There are already restrictions on lithium batteries for air travel.

Yep. Ask Boeing about its 787 lithium battery fires.

Boeing 787s still carry similar but upgraded batteries with better protection. So strictly speaking there is no restriction on carrying operating huge LI batteries in planes provided it is engineered right and placed in a protective container that can vent the result of a catastrophic event to outside the plane.

That is very different from rules for carrying bulk loads of non-operating batteries, which in turn is very different from rules for carrying a few batteries as part of passenger operated equipment in their carry on baggage. Conflating all of this together since all involve Li ion batteries of very different, size, capability, energy density and total energy content, does not help and indeed hinders logical discussion of the matter.

 

[PVD]

To add to the fray, there are differences between the issues with primary (non-rechargeable) and secondary (rechargeable) batteries. The issues that have arisen due to problems witth charging circuits and batteries don't occur with primary batteries. They have had major issues themselves, just not that one.

 

[jis]

To add to the fray, there are differences between the issues with primary (non-rechargeable) and secondary (rechargeable) batteries. The issues that have arisen due to problems witth charging circuits and batteries don't occur with primary batteries. They have had major issues themselves, just not that one.

Exactly! I concur.

 

[Hal]

To add to the fray, there are differences between the issues with primary (non-rechargeable) and secondary (rechargeable) batteries. The issues that have arisen due to problems witth charging circuits and batteries don't occur with primary batteries. They have had major issues themselves, just not that one.

Just saw this video. Sheesh.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/14/10766976/hoveboard-catching-fire-video-bluebritish

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

To add to the fray, there are differences between the issues with primary (non-rechargeable) and secondary (rechargeable) batteries. The issues that have arisen due to problems witth charging circuits and batteries don't occur with primary batteries. They have had major issues themselves, just not that one.

Lithium itself is pretty nasty stuff, both chemically and nuclear-ly.

I wonder if someone came up with batteries made out of nitroglycerin, would people still be surprised when such batteries occasionally exploded?

 

[jis]

Isn't Hydrogen pretty nasty chemically and nuclearly too.

 

[PVD]

An element that may be highly reactive alone may be very stable as part of a compound. NaCl - sodium and chlorine individually are reactive and dangerous, plain salt only in extremes. Hydrogen, see any video of the Hindenburg, as H2O in combination with oxygen, one of the most stable compounds.

 

[jis]

An element that may be highly reactive alone may be very stable as part of a compound. NaCl - sodium and chlorine individually are reactive and dangerous, plain salt only in extremes. Hydrogen, see any video of the Hindenburg, as H2O in combination with oxygen, one of the most stable compounds.

Indeed, and for nuclearly take a look at an exploding Hydrogen Bomb

 

[PVD]

But lo and behold hydrogen fusion begets helium, which is extremely stable. And what is dangerous in one setting can be critically important to life in another. Hydrogen bomb vs the Sun. We live in a "sound bite" society, little snippets are used by most folks to formulate their opinions, rarely is the "big picture" view taken into account. So few folks like waiting for Paul Harvey to give us "the rest of the story"

 

[HenryK]

Nobody's said anything yet about the transportation of LiPo (lithium polymer) batteries commonly used in radio-controlled model airplanes, cars, boats and the like. Those batteries can set off a helluva fire just by sitting there. I keep and carry mine in a vented steel ammunition box but keep the box outside on a concrete-and-steel balcony where any incident won't ignite my condo.

The batteries are transported via UPS and Fedex (I don't know about USPS) from vendors to consumers at half charge, which renders them mostly safe but no LiPo battery is completely, utterly, 100 percent safe. Wouldn't drean of carrying them on an airplane or Amtrak train, although plenty of hobbyists do without thinking about it.

 

[PVD]

http://www.airsafe.com/issues/security/faa_batteries.pdf

this link covers rules for passengers on planes, bulk shipments are another story, at least one plane crash has been attributed to a cargo fire originating in a load of batteries. Regulations for air shipment of any Lithium containing battery without equipment changed last year, paperwork and certification is required, and since many contract carriers will not take them air shipment is not possible to all locations served by the major package haulers.

 

[jis]

But lo and behold hydrogen fusion begets helium, which is extremely stable. And what is dangerous in one setting can be critically important to life in another. Hydrogen bomb vs the Sun. We live in a "sound bite" society, little snippets are used by most folks to formulate their opinions, rarely is the "big picture" view taken into account. So few folks like waiting for Paul Harvey to give us "the rest of the story"

Yup. I was just pulling Choo Choo's leg anyway

 

[Thirdrail7]

While this may seem gimmicky in your mind, it address the question that has been asked by front line employees: Are these items allowed? For better or worse, you now have a direct answer. They are not allowed. A brand rule was added so there is no misunderstanding because the moment someone would have utilized the "Amtrak personnel may determine if an item not mentioned in this list is prohibited" rule, there would have been cries of "prove it", "where does it say that" , "the crew is making up their own rules," or "it's not in the blue book."

While there is still the prospect that some crews will not say anything and the policy may change , there is policy. Personally, I've never seen a hover board nor have I ever witnessed anyone riding one so I probably wouldn't recognize one even it you ran me over with it...unless you told me I was just run over by a hover board. ^_^

As currently written I can't transport or even possess a hollow hover board toy with batteries removed anywhere on Amtrak property, including open air pavement. Nevertheless it would appear that I can transport the batteries themselves and even some charger circuitry if I so chose, just so long as it wasn't attached to a hover board. Looking back over events that have actually harmed and even killed people on Amtrak trains, and/or are at least somewhat likely to do so in the future, hover boards are so far down the list that it’s hard to see this as any sort of critical safety issue. Meanwhile the primary areas that are statistically at greatest risk of hover board disasters and would benefit from some enforceable regulation (consumer homes and wallets) remain completely unprotected. Amtrak's luggage rules already state "Amtrak personnel may determine if an item not mentioned in this list is prohibited." so it's not like they needed a brand new rule with its own special category for a single fleeting toy fad. In my view this new rule is every bit as absurd and gimmicky as the device which spawned it.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Personally, I've never seen a hover board nor have I ever witnessed anyone riding one so I probably wouldn't recognize one even it you ran me over with it...unless you told me I was just run over by a hover board. ^_^

 

[Hal]

While this may seem gimmicky in your mind, it address the question that has been asked by front line employees: Are these items allowed? For better or worse, you now have a direct answer. They are not allowed. A brand rule was added so there is no misunderstanding because the moment someone would have utilized the "Amtrak personnel may determine if an item not mentioned in this list is prohibited" rule, there would have been cries of "prove it", "where does it say that" , "the crew is making up their own rules," or "it's not in the blue book."

While there is still the prospect that some crews will not say anything and the policy may change , there is policy. Personally, I've never seen a hover board nor have I ever witnessed anyone riding one so I probably wouldn't recognize one even it you ran me over with it...unless you told me I was just run over by a hover board. ^_^

As currently written I can't transport or even possess a hollow hover board toy with batteries removed anywhere on Amtrak property, including open air pavement. Nevertheless it would appear that I can transport the batteries themselves and even some charger circuitry if I so chose, just so long as it wasn't attached to a hover board. Looking back over events that have actually harmed and even killed people on Amtrak trains, and/or are at least somewhat likely to do so in the future, hover boards are so far down the list that it’s hard to see this as any sort of critical safety issue. Meanwhile the primary areas that are statistically at greatest risk of hover board disasters and would benefit from some enforceable regulation (consumer homes and wallets) remain completely unprotected. Amtrak's luggage rules already state "Amtrak personnel may determine if an item not mentioned in this list is prohibited." so it's not like they needed a brand new rule with its own special category for a single fleeting toy fad. In my view this new rule is every bit as absurd and gimmicky as the device which spawned it.

I saw one last week in the supermarket. Looked like the one in the video. Some ten year old was riding it and almost ran into me. I said somewhat loudly watch out and he fell off. His mother was about fitfteen feet behind and said don't yell at him he is just a kid. Then the kid and mother went off and the kid fell off the thing two or three times before they disapeared from sight.

If they ever allow them to be carried on the train they would still need to ban them from being riding them on the train platforms.

 

[chakk]

My hoverboard doesn't use batteries...it's a plug-in model. Is it still banned?

Are you saying you ride it everywhere while it remains plugged in to a wall outlet? And when you unplug it from the wall, it immediately goes dead?

 

[chakk]

And I don't suppose the smoke from the burning batteries and plastic is good for one's health, either.

Perhaps a few civil lawsuits will shut down the manufacturers before the CPSC does. Bring back the Hula Hoop! (i got one when they first came out, but couldn't do it then.)

 

[Chaz]

Now I see hover boards being carried aboard Boca Raton buses by youth instead of skate boards. I asked a driver if they were legal but he seemed out of the loop.