How do feel about riding "Coach" ?

[MccfamschoolMom]

Did you grow up in Milwaukee then? My sister, the one who attended Concordia College in St. Paul, taught at a Lutheran school in Milwaukee after she graduated from Concordia.

No, but just South of there, in Racine and Kenosha.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

People tend to refer to having a sleeper as "1st Class" ... does that make Coach "2nd [Class]"?
That brings up the question .... what do you think about coach? Do you tend to think of those who ride coach as

• poor people
• people who only ride a train for transportation - not for fun
• not an "option" but something one "settles for"
• something to be avoided

What do you think?

Calling coach travel second class actually seems rather apt to me. This term comes with an extreme social stigma in the US, but that is precisely what modern coach travel represents in my view. Specifically, the way many staff treat coach travelers is distinctly low class. It doesn't really matter if it's Amtrak or an airline in all honesty. That is not to say everyone who travels in coach is poor or ignorant; just that this is how staff tend to treat coach passengers regardless of their means or education. I've traveled in coach more times than I can count and find coach seats rather uncomfortable for actual sleeping. For these and other reasons I mainly use coach for day trips now.

 

[Deni]

A conductor told me once that the lower level baggage area is a popular sleeping area too as long as it is clear. We used the top shelf once as a bar for a big party (suggested by a couple of crazy Coach Attendants) in the smoking lounge on the CZ. Several of us chipped in and a couple of folks ran across the street to the liquor store in GJT and got an assortment of booze and mixers. What a hoot! Specially the Attendants telling travel stories over the years. And NO they were not drinking any alcohol!

Those old smoking lounges were a lot of fun back in those days. I spent a lot of time in the ones on the EB. Became quite the party. Officially food and drink were not allowed but as long as you had a cool conductor it was all good. But I did see it get out of hand a couple of times.

 

[Deni]

It is February, 2003.

I believe those smoking lounges operated until 2004.

 

[Skyline]

If I can ride 2x1 Business Class instead of 2x2 coach, that's a small compromise if I can get a single. When younger and poorer, I almost always rode coach; slumbercoach if available. Now I'm older and have made a few bucks so try to book a sleeper. I just sleep better in a roomette or bedroom. Sadly, nothing comparable these days to the slumbercoach.

It has nothing to do with "classism." In fact, I think I've met a wider spectrum of the human race among those who travel coach. I like the diversity. On many trains, it's still possible to socialize with people from sleepers and coaches in lounge cars.

 

[fdaley]

Back in the late '80s, I used to ride #66 regularly from Newark to Boston to meet up with my girlfriend, now my wife. The coaches were unreserved, and a big crowd got off at NYP. From there I would usually have two seats to myself until at least Providence. I got very good at sleeping in fetal position across the two seats with my coat or jacket as a pillow, and I slept well.

Later, when we lived in Maine, I discovered the sleeper on the back of 66/67 and used it a number of times between Boston and PA or VA until the sleeper was taken off in 2003. On the long-distance trains, I take a sleeper whenever it's available.

Last year I needed to get from NJ to Boston, the schedule of #66 worked well, and I thought that even if there was no sleeper, I could manage OK and relive the experience of my youth. Fearing the coach might be crowded, however, I used an AGR coupon to upgrade to Business Class. That was a mistake. In the 2-and-1 seating arrangement used on that train, the two-seaters have a large armrest in the middle, making it impossible to sleep across two seats. So I took one of the single seats. It was a long night as I tried to contort myself into a position suitable for sleeping. I arrived exhausted, and my neck was sore for much of the next day. I guess that is the difference between being 20-something and 50-something.

 

[Qapla]

I guess that is the difference between being 20-something and 50-something.

I rode the Silvers in a Viewliner Coach seat.

Reclined the seat and laid my head back and drifted off to sleep with the rocking and swaying of the train. Woke up with no more aches and pains than I have when I sleep in my own bed ... guess that's what being in the upper 60's is like.

 

[fdaley]

I rode the Silvers in a Viewliner Coach seat.

Reclined the seat and laid my head back and drifted off to sleep with the rocking and swaying of the train. Woke up with no more aches and pains than I have when I sleep in my own bed ... guess that's what being in the upper 60's is like.

I suppose you're right. I don't sleep as well in my own bed as I did 30 years ago. But I do sleep better when I can lie down flat than when I'm reclining in a chair.

 

[Qapla]

I cannot sleep right when I lie down flat - can't breath right ... need my head elevated

I can't sleep on my back if not elevated. Also, if I lay on my left side, I cannot have my right leg straight while sleeping or I will have difficulty and pain trying to ben it when I get up - if I am on my right side, I can have my right leg straight or bent and be just fine - go figure

 

[CameraObscura76]

People tend to refer to having a sleeper as "1st Class" ... does that make Coach "2nd Coach"?

That brings up the question .... what do you think about coach? Do you tend to think of those who ride coach as

• poor people Maybe?
• people who only ride a train for transportation - not for fun Perhaps
• not an "option" but something one "settles for" Sometimes, yes
• something to be avoided For me, definitely yes.

What do you think?

Riding in a roomette as opposed to riding coach is more of a personal preference I admit it; while others enjoy the social aspect of coach and meeting new people, having to be seated next to a complete stranger makes me uncomfortable because I’m extremely shy. I like having the option of retreating to my private space or venturing out among other passengers.

 

[jloewen]

Back in the late '80s, I used to ride #66 regularly from Newark to Boston to meet up with my girlfriend, now my wife. The coaches were unreserved, and a big crowd got off at NYP. From there I would usually have two seats to myself until at least Providence. I got very good at sleeping in fetal position across the two seats with my coat or jacket as a pillow, and I slept well.

Later, when we lived in Maine, I discovered the sleeper on the back of 66/67 and used it a number of times between Boston and PA or VA until the sleeper was taken off in 2003. On the long-distance trains, I take a sleeper whenever it's available.

Last year I needed to get from NJ to Boston, the schedule of #66 worked well, and I thought that even if there was no sleeper, I could manage OK and relive the experience of my youth. Fearing the coach might be crowded, however, I used an AGR coupon to upgrade to Business Class. That was a mistake. In the 2-and-1 seating arrangement used on that train, the two-seaters have a large armrest in the middle, making it impossible to sleep across two seats. So I took one of the single seats. It was a long night as I tried to contort myself into a position suitable for sleeping. I arrived exhausted, and my neck was sore for much of the next day. I guess that is the difference between being 20-something and 50-something.

By chance my wife and I took the next-to-last sleeper from DC to BOS and then the first overnight train from BOS to DC that did NOT have a sleeper. Amtrak had sold us a sleeper both ways. We booked a bedroom up (so we could take a shower before speaking etc. in Boston) and a roomette back south. Northbound, the sleeper meant that we could eat anything we wanted (except alcohol) from the usual Amcafe. Not nearly as good as a diner, of course, but OK, especially for breakfast.
But when we boarded to go south, they told us the sleeper car had broken, so they refunded our ticket back to coach and then gave us Business Class, which did not include food, of course, only soft drinks. We did not sleep as well sitting up. So far as I know, Amtrak never repaired or replaced the sleeper. Why not?? Why doesn't RPA, AU, etc., ask for its return?

 

[Charles785]

Does anyone know why sleepers were taken off #66 and #67?

 

[Katibeth]

If I was traveling in a group, I wouldn't mind being in Coach. However, since I usually travel alone, I prefer a sleeper whenever possible.

 

[dlagrua]

On the NE corridor trains on trips up to about 6 hours, we always ride coach. On 8 -10 hour trips we usually book a roomette and on overnight trips we get a bedroom mainly because we are a middle age/senor couple. The seats on coach recline and are large enough to feel comfortable in. Many people feel perfectly fine sleeping in their seat while others do not. For instance on the overnight Autotrain most passengers take coach. Many take bed sized pillows aboard. It all depends on your budget and how you define your level of comfort.

 

[F900ElCapitan]

The way I see it, the different classes are already labeled, sleeper, first (Acela), business, and coach. I don’t view people any differently for whichever class they choose or are able to book. Nor do I consider there to be much of a need to re-label the classes just to fit a different labeling scheme. I have been fortunate enough in the past couple of years to have the option to make the choice that best suits me. That being said, I also do my due diligence and watch for the fares available per accommodation and make my booking choice for what I see as reasonable. Things like sleeping on an actual bed, privacy to run my scanner, and being able to bring alcoholic beverages are important to me. Shoot, my wife and I even booked a roomette from Oakland to San Luis Obispo because the upcharge was under $100 and we got breakfast and lunch included. But I have also ridden coach, (although not overnight) and really enjoyed it.

To sum it up, whichever choice that’s made, it’s always an adventure on Amtrak.

 

[fdaley]

Does anyone know why sleepers were taken off #66 and #67?

As I recall, the claim was that Amtrak didn't have enough Viewliner sleepers to go around. There was a period when the Cardinal had run with Superliner cars and terminated at Washington, so it may have had to do with re-equipping that train to resume through service to New York.

I remember that the sleeper came off in November 2003. We had booked a room on 67 at the end of that month to attend a wedding in northern Virginia. Our toddler son was kind of difficult at that point, and my wife especially felt that if we had to go all that way in coach, we and our fellow passengers would all go mad. But about two or three weeks before departure, Amtrak notified us the sleeper was being canceled. We wound up going in coach to New York, then had a room on the Crescent to Alexandria, which I felt lucky to get because of the proximity to Thanksgiving.

 

[Trogdor]

As I recall, the claim was that Amtrak didn't have enough Viewliner sleepers to go around. There was a period when the Cardinal had run with Superliner cars and terminated at Washington, so it may have had to do with re-equipping that train to resume through service to New York.

I remember that the sleeper came off in November 2003. We had booked a room on 67 at the end of that month to attend a wedding in northern Virginia. Our toddler son was kind of difficult at that point, and my wife especially felt that if we had to go all that way in coach, we and our fellow passengers would all go mad. But about two or three weeks before departure, Amtrak notified us the sleeper was being canceled. We wound up going in coach to New York, then had a room on the Crescent to Alexandria, which I felt lucky to get because of the proximity to Thanksgiving.

There was some overlap between the Cardinal going single-level and 66/67 losing the sleeper.

The Cardinal went single level in spring or summer 2002, after the April 2002 Auto Train derailment took Amtrak below the number of serviceable Superliners needed to maintain their network. A year or two after that, the route was extended to New York because, as I recall, it was easier to maintain the train and furnish spare equipment in New York where all the other Viewliner trains (save the on again, off again Boston Lake Shore sleeper and the on again, off again Twilight Shoreliner/Night Owl sleeper) vs. DC where the Cardinal was the only train with a Viewliner.

(On a side note, in April 2002, the Kentucky Cardinal, which had run with one or two Superliners attached to the Superliner-equipped Cardinal, had been planned to switch to single-level equipment including a Viewliner, connected to the transition sleeper on the Cardinal, but the effect of the Auto Train derailment converting the Cardinal to Viewliner meant the KC lost its sleeper completely.)

At the time, Amtrak was overtaxing the Viewliner fleet, which meant that any little thing resulted in a sleeper line being blanked and passengers being downgraded day of (I was the recipient of one such downgrade in January 2003 BOS-CHI, incidentally having arrived in BOS on train 66 which had a Viewliner in service).

Eventually reality set in and Amtrak had to pull sleepers from somewhere, and 66/67 were the obvious target (and 448/449 wound up losing their sleepers around the same time, though I don’t recall which was first; in fact, 448/449 were turned into a stub train ALB-BOS for a while, though I think that may have been due to track construction around Albany-Rensselaer station).

Other trains that wound up losing their Viewliners at the time were the Three Rivers (which ran with a Viewliner for maybe 6 months to a year after the last Heritage sleepers were retired), and the Silver Palm, which became the Palmetto. After Amtrak got Viewliner availability back to acceptable levels, they used that equipment to put the third sleeper back onto the Silver Meteor (which had been running with two).

 

[Skyline]

Those old smoking lounges were a lot of fun back in those days. I spent a lot of time in the ones on the EB. Became quite the party. Officially food and drink were not allowed but as long as you had a cool conductor it was all good. But I did see it get out of hand a couple of times.

Those lounges, and the myriad other "private" nooks and crannies in some of the heritage cars, were one of the attractions of rail travel during my youth. Looking back, I wonder how we all survived, as it sometimes had a Woodstock vibe.

 

[railiner]

Those lounges, and the myriad other "private" nooks and crannies in some of the heritage cars, were one of the attractions of rail travel during my youth. Looking back, I wonder how we all survived, as it sometimes had a Woodstock vibe.

The ultimate "party hardy" location in all of Amtrak, was in "Le Pub", on the Heritage era Montrealer, especially northbound on Friday nights, or southbound on Sunday nights...

 

[Maglev]

I have an interesting story about riding in coach and drinking on board. In early 1978, I was returning from Eugene to Boston by train, and rode the National Limited from Kansas City to New York. There was a group of military inductees heading for basic training with which I spent part of the evening socialising. After I retired, the train hit a car and was stopped for a while. Apparently some of the guys I was hanging out with got off the train and stole a case of beer. Later that night, in a large city station (the identity of which I am not certain), Military Police apprehended the entire gang. I'm lucky I wasn't part of that late night party!

 

[fdaley]

There was some overlap between the Cardinal going single-level and 66/67 losing the sleeper.

The Cardinal went single level in spring or summer 2002, after the April 2002 Auto Train derailment took Amtrak below the number of serviceable Superliners needed to maintain their network. A year or two after that, the route was extended to New York because, as I recall, it was easier to maintain the train and furnish spare equipment in New York where all the other Viewliner trains (save the on again, off again Boston Lake Shore sleeper and the on again, off again Twilight Shoreliner/Night Owl sleeper) vs. DC where the Cardinal was the only train with a Viewliner.

(On a side note, in April 2002, the Kentucky Cardinal, which had run with one or two Superliners attached to the Superliner-equipped Cardinal, had been planned to switch to single-level equipment including a Viewliner, connected to the transition sleeper on the Cardinal, but the effect of the Auto Train derailment converting the Cardinal to Viewliner meant the KC lost its sleeper completely.)

At the time, Amtrak was overtaxing the Viewliner fleet, which meant that any little thing resulted in a sleeper line being blanked and passengers being downgraded day of (I was the recipient of one such downgrade in January 2003 BOS-CHI, incidentally having arrived in BOS on train 66 which had a Viewliner in service).

Eventually reality set in and Amtrak had to pull sleepers from somewhere, and 66/67 were the obvious target (and 448/449 wound up losing their sleepers around the same time, though I don’t recall which was first; in fact, 448/449 were turned into a stub train ALB-BOS for a while, though I think that may have been due to track construction around Albany-Rensselaer station).

Other trains that wound up losing their Viewliners at the time were the Three Rivers (which ran with a Viewliner for maybe 6 months to a year after the last Heritage sleepers were retired), and the Silver Palm, which became the Palmetto. After Amtrak got Viewliner availability back to acceptable levels, they used that equipment to put the third sleeper back onto the Silver Meteor (which had been running with two).

Thank you for explaining that with much fuller context. I thought I remembered that there was a wreck that somehow figured into it, but couldn't recall the details. Your review of the sleeper services that disappeared in the early 2000s does underscore how much Amtrak service is still constrained by decisions on equipment orders that were made 25-30 years ago.

 

[Skyline]

The ultimate "party hardy" location in all of Amtrak, was in "Le Pub", on the Heritage era Montrealer, especially northbound on Friday nights, or southbound on Sunday nights...

Yes! I remember that! Only rode the Montrealer LePub a couple times tho.

The Broadway Limited had its own incarnation of LePub, albeit without the piano player when I rode. I used to take it RT between PGH and PHL twice a month for business purposes. And...it had a slumbercoach!

I later learned that some of the LePub style lounge cars were at one time converted to "hospital cars" during WW2.

Some of the western trains during the first decade of Amtrak had some of the best and worst rolling stock. You never quite knew what you'd get until boarding. But explorations sometimes revealed tight private-ish spaces that two, three, or four adults could occupy without being "caught." Of course if someone "lit up," all bets were off -- that stench was too difficult to mask. Superliners and Viewliners really don't compare. How did we all survive being young in the '60s and '70s?

 

[railiner]

Yes! I remember that! Only rode the Montrealer LePub a couple times tho.

The Broadway Limited had its own incarnation of LePub, albeit without the piano player when I rode. I used to take it RT between PGH and PHL twice a month for business purposes. And...it had a slumbercoach!

I later learned that some of the LePub style lounge cars were at one time converted to "hospital cars" during WW2.

Those Heritage 3100 series lounges were built new as hospital cars for the US Army during WWII. They are easily identified from outside by their lack of much window area. Before Amtrak got their allocation of them, the Alaska RR also inherited several. I rode the 1970 AuRoRa, and in their conversion they installed a working jukebox, which the college kids used to dance to along the way....

 

[Skyline]

Those Heritage 3100 series lounges were built new as hospital cars for the US Army during WWII. They are easily identified from outside by their lack of much window area. Before Amtrak got their allocation of them, the Alaska RR also inherited several. I rode the 1970 AuRoRa, and in their conversion they installed a working jukebox, which the college kids used to dance to along the way....

Good to learn. A club car attendant back in the day told me they were "converted," but they were built new as hospital cars?

 

[railiner]

http://railwaysurgery.org/Army.htm
http://railwaysurgery.org/Army2.htm