How does a crazy fare happen?

[guest]

Booking a sleeper from New York to New Orleans.

The roomette price came up $450, the bedroom $370.

So the agent said, take the bedroom. We did.

I asked her how this could happen. She said that practically all the roomettes were taken, but none of the bedrooms.

But wouldn't the Amtrak fare algorithm always try to keep the bedroom price above the roomette price?

In any event, we feel lucky to have gotten a Viewliner bedroom to experience. Still seems a bit crazy, though.

Does anyone have a cogent explanation for how this happens, or how often it might happen on other routes as well?

 

[calwatch]

It is bucket pricing, much less granular than the airlines. http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/22144-please-explain-the-bucket-fare-pricing-system/

 

[Guest]

They are separate inventories. If they set the lowest bedroom fare to be higher than the highest roomette fare, the price of bedrooms would be astronomical.

The fares are managed by people and not a "fare algorithm."

While this is a rare occurrence, it can and does happen on any route.

 

[Acela150]

I can give an example of Roomette and Bedroom pricing. In February I took the CL and Cardinal. The "bucket" on the Roomette on the Cardinal was $48*.00 and the Bedroom was $48*.00. The price difference was $3. The Bedroom was more expensive but only by $3. So I took the Bedroom over the Roomette. I booked this trip on about a week out. The Cardinal runs with one sleeper and some Roomettes are taken by OBS. Their are 2 Bedrooms in a Viewliner. I got the first Bedroom about 7 Days before travel. After I booked the Bedroom on 50. The bucket almost doubled. So in this case, Most of the Roomettes had sold, but the 2 Bedrooms didn't. IIRC The other Bedroom sold day of departure.

 

[crescent2]

By checking on amsnag.net (a great resource for comparing fares for different dates and different accommodations, btw), I've seen bedrooms a little cheaper than roomettes on the Crescent (ATL-NOL) several times. I thought it was strange, but good.

 

[the_traveler]

As said, they are sold, and priced, separately. More roomettes were sold on that train then bedrooms.

Although not quite the same, I have even seen some Acelas (say BOS-PHL) priced lower than a regional BOS-PHL! People figure "an Acela costs more than a regional, so why even look at Acela?" - thus the lower bucket!

 

[FriskyFL]

Consider it a gift and certainly don't complain!

 

[Tracktwentynine]

Think of it this way:

Let's say that the day before you booked your trip, a roomette costed $130 and a bedroom cost $210.

That day, some guy from Peoria booked a roomette. After all, it was cheaper.

That booking knocked roomettes into the higher bucket, so now they costed $225 while bedrooms still cost $210.

So you come along and say, why would anyone book a roomette when bedrooms are cheaper? So you book the bedroom.

That knocks the bedroom into the next bucket, and now the prices are $225 for a roomette and $350 for a bedroom.

The next guy books a roomette because it's cheaper. See? It was entirely possible to book a bedroom cheaper, and no one was forced to make any non-rational choices.

 

[Acela150]

By checking on amsnag.net (a great resource for comparing fares for different dates and different accommodations, btw), I've seen bedrooms a little cheaper than roomettes on the Crescent (ATL-NOL) several times. I thought it was strange, but good.

Amsnag is a great tool. That is how I found out about the Bedroom pricing on the Cardinal.

Think of it this way:
Let's say that the day before you booked your trip, a roomette costed $130 and a bedroom cost $210.

That day, some guy from Peoria booked a roomette. After all, it was cheaper.

That booking knocked roomettes into the higher bucket, so now they costed $225 while bedrooms still cost $210.

So you come along and say, why would anyone book a roomette when bedrooms are cheaper? So you book the bedroom.

That knocks the bedroom into the next bucket, and now the prices are $225 for a roomette and $350 for a bedroom.

The next guy books a roomette because it's cheaper. See? It was entirely possible to book a bedroom cheaper, and no one was forced to make any non-rational choices.

That's a pretty good example. Possibly the best I've seen.

 

[zephyr17]

I was the beneficiary once of a roomette costing less than coach on the Empire Builder between Seattle and Chicago. I had been planning to drive, because the trip was planned late. But I was checking the Amtrak site regularly and about 5 days before I was planning to leave, a dead-cheap, lowest bucket roomette appeared, and coach was high bucket, so it was like $50 more than the roomette.

I grabbed it and got a reasonable low-mid bucket roomette for the return (which was more expensive than coach), so took Amtrak instead of driving.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Consider it a gift and certainly don't complain!

It's great for consumers who have flexible scheduling and are willing to shop around.

For the carrier it makes no sense whatsoever.

When was the last time you saw first class priced less than coach or business class on an airline?

That only happens on mistake fares, whereas it's obviously part of the SOP with Amtrak.

 

[guest]

As the OP, The replies here to my question are really interesting. I now understand how Amtrak operates its system.

But wouldn't it make sense for Amtrak to always keep the bedroom price above the roomette price, even if only at $25 or $30, because in terms of value and cost, the bedroom is a better accommodation and therefore valued at a higher price.

As one responder said, when has an airline ever had a coach seat be more expensive than a first class fare? Undoubtedly never. On Southwest, the cheapest "wanna get away" fares approach the much higher business and fully refundable fares as more cheap seats are sold, no matter whether the airline sells a single higher-priced fully refundable or business fare. And even on Amtrak, I don't believe that a regular coach seat fare ever sells for less than business class, no matter whether every coach seat is sold and there are aisles of business class remaining.

It just doesn't seem good business practice what Amtrak is doing with the sleeper fare pricing scheme. Aside to another responder, we are certainly happy to have taken the bedroom for such a low price, but that still doesn't stop me from feeling that something is not quite right with all of this.

 

[Acela150]

I think another thing that I haven't seen anyone mention is that it could be one person traveling and they want a Roomette, they don't see the need for a big room. Me personally, the choice between a Roomette and Bedroom goes by how far and long the ride is.

 

[BCL]

Not all roomettes are reserved with cash. Regardless of the cash pricing, getting a roomette or bedroom costs a fixed number of AGR points with the roomette always less. I thought a lot of people posting here talk about using points to get private rooms.

 

[Ispolkom]

As one responder said, when has an airline ever had a coach seat be more expensive than a first class fare? Undoubtedly never.

As far as I know that's true, but prices can be quite close. I've often seen 1st class tickets Chicago-Minneapolis priced less than $10 more than coach for a same-day ticket.

Not all roomettes are reserved with cash. Regardless of the cash pricing, getting a roomette or bedroom costs a fixed number of AGR points with the roomette always less. I thought a lot of people posting here talk about using points to get private rooms.

This is different from how airlines sell seats. I have used points for first class saver seats on American Airlines when they were the same price as coach regular redemptions on the same flight.

I assume that we see pricing anomalies on Amtrak because the cost of fixing the problem is higher than the expected increase in income.

 

[crescent2]

Hopefully, the people setting bucket prices have enough experience to know what usually maximizes revenue. As far as comparing bedrooms to airline first class, I'm wondering if Amtrak winds up with unsold bedrooms on some routes, and therefore comes out better pricing them very low. (ATL-NOL is a daytime trip in both directions, for example.) A low bucket sale is better than no sale. Sometimes it's hard to come up with apples to compare with apples.

Or maybe it's another instance of poor management? IDK, I'm just wondering.

 

[BCL]

As one responder said, when has an airline ever had a coach seat be more expensive than a first class fare? Undoubtedly never.

As far as I know that's true, but prices can be quite close. I've often seen 1st class tickets Chicago-Minneapolis priced less than $10 more than coach for a same-day ticket.

Not all roomettes are reserved with cash. Regardless of the cash pricing, getting a roomette or bedroom costs a fixed number of AGR points with the roomette always less. I thought a lot of people posting here talk about using points to get private rooms.

This is different from how airlines sell seats. I have used points for first class saver seats on American Airlines when they were the same price as coach regular redemptions on the same flight.

I assume that we see pricing anomalies on Amtrak because the cost of fixing the problem is higher than the expected increase in income.

I fly Southwest and use their Rapid Rewards program. The points needed are directly correlated with the current price for cash tickets. If you think of a point as being worth a penny (common assumption given credit card points typically get one gift cards at 10,000 points for $100 gift cards), they actually have something like a 40% discount compared to cash if you use points.