how many hours does a amtrak engerneer work

[amtrakwolverine]

is there a rule or law too how long the engineer can drive the train. lets say for the SWC he drives it from Chicago to ABQ which is a service stop which means driving it through the night over 12 hours. is that possible or do they change drivers more often then that. I know for short routes like the wolverine Pontiac to Chicago he drives it all the way sense its only 6 hours

 

[jackal]

is there a rule or law too how long the engineer can drive the train. lets say for the SWC he drives it from Chicago to ABQ which is a service stop which means driving it through the night over 12 hours. is that possible or do they change drivers more often then that. I know for short routes like the wolverine Pontiac to Chicago he drives it all the way sense its only 6 hours

Yes. Federal law (the Hours of Service Act, to be precise) prevents railroad crews from working more than twelve consecutive hours. At the twelve-hour mark, the train crew must stop the train. If a railroad crew is forced to work longer than twelve hours, the railroad is subject to a fairly hefty fine by the FRA.

Also, after a shift of any length up to 11 hours and 59 minutes, crew members must be given a minimum of eight hours off. After a shift of 12 hours (or more, if they exceed their hours of service), they must receive a minimum of 10 hours off.

Due to the way extra boards and being on call work, railroad crews on an extra board can use this in their favor: if they work right up to the 12-hour mark, a railroad crew wanting overtime and extra money might actually have the conductor mark their timesheet for 11 hours and 59 minutes so that the crew will be eligible for a particular job that's called, say, 9 hours after the crew ties up (where they would be ineligible under a 12-hour tie-up). Personally, I value my sleep, so I always voted for a 12-hour tie-up, and even when we did an 11:59 tie-up, I was actually rarely called right on rest.

Glossary of terms used in the railroad industry that relate to this:

Hours of service: time worked

Tying up: ending the shift

Call time: time your shift starts

Dying, going dead, dying on the law, going dead on the law: reaching a crew's maximum hours of service

Dogcatching: a relief crew going to pick up a train stopped somewhere on the main (or in a siding) because of the crew going dead on the law

Extra board: An on-call list of railroad employees

FRA: Federal Railroad Administration

 

[the_traveler]

I was once on the LSL that had locomotive problems. It stopped in a freight year, but was there for so long that the crew died (hours of work). So they had to drive in another crew. (I don't know where from.) We were stopped for something like 6 or 7 hours!

 

[Green Maned Lion]

As the others have said, there is a very strict set of rules for this stuff!

 

[had8ley]

Just one addition to a very good synopsis. There is a term called "short-rested." You can work, tie up and be called out again in four hours. You can only work up until the total of your time on duty adds up to twelve. Example; You're called for #22 out of SAS, with a fireman, and tie up in Austin after 4 hours on duty. Four hours later an extra north pax train comes into town with a sick engineer. The engineer off of #22 can be called for the extra and work an additional eight hours, IF he has a fireman (second engineer). The National agreement calls for engineer only runs of six hours or less.

Believe me; if you saw all that was involved in being on the front end of a train doing 79 mph (or 150 in the NEC) you'd understand the reasoning behind the six hour rule. Perhaps the best way to get a taste of what goes on in the head end is to buy an inexpensive scanner.

 

[jackal]

Just one addition to a very good synopsis. There is a term called "short-rested." You can work, tie up and be called out again in four hours. You can only work up until the total of your time on duty adds up to twelve. Example; You're called for #22 out of SAS, with a fireman, and tie up in Austin after 4 hours on duty. Four hours later an extra north pax train comes into town with a sick engineer. The engineer off of #22 can be called for the extra and work an additional eight hours, IF he has a fireman (second engineer). The National agreement calls for engineer only runs of six hours or less.Believe me; if you saw all that was involved in being on the front end of a train doing 79 mph (or 150 in the NEC) you'd understand the reasoning behind the six hour rule. Perhaps the best way to get a taste of what goes on in the head on is to buy an inexpensive scanner.

I was going to include something on this but figured my post was already confusing enough... :lol:

We did this when working the coal turn from Fairbanks to Healy. We'd take the train down (about a three-hour run, give or take), pull it into the Usibelli siding, and then a crew from the Healy extra board would come down and take over. We'd be driven up to the hotel, get four hours off and take a nap (we called it "going on release"), and then get called to take the now-loaded coal train back up to Fairbanks. We'd then spend the last five or so hours of the shift spotting the coal cars at the three coal power plants in Fairbanks.

 

[ThayerATM]

Just one addition to a very good synopsis. There is a term called "short-rested." You can work, tie up and be called out again in four hours. You can only work up until the total of your time on duty adds up to twelve. Example; You're called for #22 out of SAS, with a fireman, and tie up in Austin after 4 hours on duty. Four hours later an extra north pax train comes into town with a sick engineer. The engineer off of #22 can be called for the extra and work an additional eight hours, IF he has a fireman (second engineer). The National agreement calls for engineer only runs of six hours or less.Believe me; if you saw all that was involved in being on the front end of a train doing 79 mph (or 150 in the NEC) you'd understand the reasoning behind the six hour rule. Perhaps the best way to get a taste of what goes on in the head on is to buy an inexpensive scanner.

I was going to include something on this but figured my post was already confusing enough... :lol:

We did this when working the coal turn from Fairbanks to Healy. We'd take the train down (about a three-hour run, give or take), pull it into the Usibelli siding, and then a crew from the Healy extra board would come down and take over. We'd be driven up to the hotel, get four hours off and take a nap (we called it "going on release"), and then get called to take the now-loaded coal train back up to Fairbanks. We'd then spend the last five or so hours of the shift spotting the coal cars at the three coal power plants in Fairbanks.

Do these rules and regulations apply to just the people "driving" the train? What are the rules and regulations for the service people on the train? We took the short 12 hour trip from CHI to ROC, but the train hit a truck on the way back, and the time was almost 17 hours, including waiting for the police to complete their investigation. Same car attendant the whole trip. I don't know if there was a switch of engineers earlier.

 

[Rail Freak]

As the others have said, there is a very strict set of rules for this stuff!

I would have thought you guys would have volunteered! LOL :lol:

 

[AlanB]

Do these rules and regulations apply to just the people "driving" the train? What are the rules and regulations for the service people on the train? We took the short 12 hour trip from CHI to ROC, but the train hit a truck on the way back, and the time was almost 17 hours, including waiting for the police to complete their investigation. Same car attendant the whole trip. I don't know if there was a switch of engineers earlier.

Those rules and regulations only apply to what we call the operating crew. The operating crew consists of the Engineer, Fireman (not all runs have a fireman), and the conductors.

The car attendants, cafe attendants, dining car workers, sleeping car attendants and others are considered the OBS (On Board Service) crew and they are not subject to the above rules. They work whatever it takes basically.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

And TAs and Sleeper attendants are on call 24 hours a day. Keep that in mind next time you notice your sleeping car attendant looking a little tired!

 

[the_traveler]

And TAs and Sleeper attendants are on call 24 hours a day. Keep that in mind next time you notice your sleeping car attendant looking a little tired!

And they're on duty for the entire run.

Example - On the EB, they don't leave at Minneapolis or Spokane. they're on duty from Chicago to Seattle (or Portland) - even if the train happens to be 12 hours late!

 

[amtrakwolverine]

so what happens if the train is X hours late and time is up. do they just stop the train on the tracks if they can't get to a siding in time or does the driver get it to a station and go over the time limit. can't see the freight railroads letting Amtrak block the main line just because there over the 12 hour limit.they would send one of there drivers to move the train.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

so what happens if the train is X hours late and time is up. do they just stop the train on the tracks if they can't get to a siding in time or does the driver get it to a station and go over the time limit. can't see the freight railroads letting Amtrak block the main line just because there over the 12 hour limit.they would send one of there drivers to move the train.

Crews are to notify dispatcher 2 hours(some roads 3 hours) before outlawing, so arrangements can be made as to where they can be relieved.

If Dispatcher lets them outlaw on mainline to bad, the train stops.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

so what happens if the train is X hours late and time is up. do they just stop the train on the tracks if they can't get to a siding in time or does the driver get it to a station and go over the time limit. can't see the freight railroads letting Amtrak block the main line just because there over the 12 hour limit.they would send one of there drivers to move the train.

Crews are to notify dispatcher 2 hours(some roads 3 hours) before outlawing, so arrangements can be made as to where they can be relieved.

If Dispatcher lets them outlaw on mainline to bad, the train stops.

not if the freight railroad can help it i bet they would send a engine and "tow" the train to the rest of the journey just so they can can get rid of it instead of having it sit and block freight traffic

 

[had8ley]

so what happens if the train is X hours late and time is up. do they just stop the train on the tracks if they can't get to a siding in time or does the driver get it to a station and go over the time limit. can't see the freight railroads letting Amtrak block the main line just because there over the 12 hour limit.they would send one of there drivers to move the train.

Crews are to notify dispatcher 2 hours(some roads 3 hours) before outlawing, so arrangements can be made as to where they can be relieved.

If Dispatcher lets them outlaw on mainline to bad, the train stops.

not if the freight railroad can help it i bet they would send a engine and "tow" the train to the rest of the journey just so they can can get rid of it instead of having it sit and block freight traffic

WOW !!! Your analogy is comparable to hijacking a train. Amtrak is capable of moving its own trains. You would have to have permission from Amtrak to couple into their train and have a really good reason to move the train (dead engine,etc.) It's not like parking in a No Parking zone. Amtrak would have to initiate any movement of THEIR train.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

so what happens if the train is X hours late and time is up. do they just stop the train on the tracks if they can't get to a siding in time or does the driver get it to a station and go over the time limit. can't see the freight railroads letting Amtrak block the main line just because there over the 12 hour limit.they would send one of there drivers to move the train.

Crews are to notify dispatcher 2 hours(some roads 3 hours) before outlawing, so arrangements can be made as to where they can be relieved.

If Dispatcher lets them outlaw on mainline to bad, the train stops.

not if the freight railroad can help it i bet they would send a engine and "tow" the train to the rest of the journey just so they can can get rid of it instead of having it sit and block freight traffic

Wow in your first few post your asking, but in this one all of sudden your authority on what can be done ??

Yes a freight railroad could move the train with another crew, but if said Railroad damages the train or injures a passenger they are held liable.

Again its up to Dispatcher to after being notified to get train in clear or set up meet with a new crew.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Trains sitting on the Main with dead crews are a problem for the freight road- but the freight roads trains sitting dead on the main have also historically been a problem for Amtrak, as well.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

so what happens if the train is X hours late and time is up. do they just stop the train on the tracks if they can't get to a siding in time or does the driver get it to a station and go over the time limit. can't see the freight railroads letting Amtrak block the main line just because there over the 12 hour limit.they would send one of there drivers to move the train.

Crews are to notify dispatcher 2 hours(some roads 3 hours) before outlawing, so arrangements can be made as to where they can be relieved.

If Dispatcher lets them outlaw on mainline to bad, the train stops.

not if the freight railroad can help it i bet they would send a engine and "tow" the train to the rest of the journey just so they can can get rid of it instead of having it sit and block freight traffic

Wow in your first few post your asking, but in this one all of sudden your authority on what can be done ??

Yes a freight railroad could move the train with another crew, but if said Railroad damages the train or injures a passenger they are held liable.

Again its up to Dispatcher to after being notified to get train in clear or set up meet with a new crew.

someones got a attitude problem your said if they sit on a main line tough the train stops. so i replied back with my comment as freight railroads hate Amtrak so there not going to let amtrak block freight trains. blocking Amtrak is a different story cause there not making money off of Amtrak so they will block Amtrak all they want

 

[Green Maned Lion]

You can't move an Amtrak train without that Amtrak train's conductors say-so. If that conductor is dead on the law, another, Amtrak approved conductor must be the one to move that train. Amtrak can, of course, arrange with a freight road, or allow a freight road to, move their train- but that is at Amtrak's discretion. The Capitol Limited would represent $30,000,000 or so of Amtrak property. They no more have a right to move that train than my neighbor has of moving my car.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Yes a freight railroad could move the train with another crew, but if said Railroad damages the train or injures a passenger they are held liable.

But if a freight train collides with an Amtrak train, the freight railroad isn't liable?

 

[Ryan]

Yes a freight railroad could move the train with another crew, but if said Railroad damages the train or injures a passenger they are held liable.

But if a freight train collides with an Amtrak train, the freight railroad isn't liable?

The freight would have to run a red signal to get to the Amtrak train, so it (the freight) would most definitely be in the wrong.

 

[AlanB]

Yes a freight railroad could move the train with another crew, but if said Railroad damages the train or injures a passenger they are held liable.

But if a freight train collides with an Amtrak train, the freight railroad isn't liable?

The freight would have to run a red signal to get to the Amtrak train, so it (the freight) would most definitely be in the wrong.

Yes, but there is a difference between wrong and liable. A freight train running a red signal and slamming into Amtrak god forbid, would still see the freight company fixing their train and the tracks, and Amtrak fixing their train and paying out any lawsuit settlements.

 

[P42]

I would take exception to a freight crew moving an Amtrak train. Our agreement is in place to specifically provide Amtrak crews to move Amtrak trains. While we do use freight engineers as pilots when operating over unfamiliar territory, we do not allow those pilots to operate the engine.

 

[AlanB]

Well most pilots haven't been checked out on operating a P42, so they can't operate it.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Do you have to be checked out on a P42 to use it to provide HEP, if you're using a freight locomotive to actually haul the train?