How many sleepers can a diner handle?

[Anderson]

I'd like to note that it might be possible to outsource the cafe services on some routes (I know there have been some experiments in this direction; you might simply have to do a full shift-over of the operation, including staffing responsibilities), but the diner is probably un-outsourcable. The Fred Harvey Company is gone, after all...also, the scale needed to make a full-on private operation here make sense isn't there. If Amtrak was operating 30 LD routes, maybe, but not with only 14 routes.

And Potato, part of the problem is staff inconsistency...Amtrak might need to crack down on crews limiting access to the diner. I won't begrudge them one or two seats at one seating, but if a diner has more than that to spare at a seating and there's not a nasty food shortage, there should be standing orders that the diner team will open it to coach pax, either by reservation or upon request, no questions asked.

 

[had8ley]

I'd like to note that it might be possible to outsource the cafe services on some routes (I know there have been some experiments in this direction; you might simply have to do a full shift-over of the operation, including staffing responsibilities), but the diner is probably un-outsourcable. The Fred Harvey Company is gone, after all...also, the scale needed to make a full-on private operation here make sense isn't there. If Amtrak was operating 30 LD routes, maybe, but not with only 14 routes.

And Potato, part of the problem is staff inconsistency...Amtrak might need to crack down on crews limiting access to the diner. I won't begrudge them one or two seats at one seating, but if a diner has more than that to spare at a seating and there's not a nasty food shortage, there should be standing orders that the diner team will open it to coach pax, either by reservation or upon request, no questions asked.

The Downeaster is a definite winner in the outsourcing but is run by a seperate authority. I see nothing wrong with the crew being handed a tray and asked to go eat in the bottom section of the sightseer lounge. If OBS crew were on here they'd probably howl but you don't see the kitchen staff eating with customers at many restaurants...yes, I know it's a rolling restaurant but maximum revenue is Amtrak's ultimate goal is it not ???

 

[user 1215]

And I know of no restaurant chains that could possibly handle the volume demanded by Amtrak each day, much less do it at a better price than what Amtrak is currently being charged by Aramark. Again, I appreciate the thinking out of the box, but I don't see how they could possibly do it cheaper. Unless of course we're going to start talking McDonalds type food.

That's interesting. I would figure that most chain restaurants handle the volume of Amtrak Dining patrons over and over again on a daily basis, for much cheaper, with perhaps equivalent costs. I cannot fathom a single restaurant NOT having the daily volume of a SINGLE Amtrak Diner. Whereas we determined that capacity for dinner in a Diner is 204 patrons per meal, that would be 600 patrons per day. Each averages $20 per meal, and we're talking $12,000 per day, and almost $360,000 per month revenue per diner. We can all presume that ain't the actual load. We know that Breakfast and Lunch probably handle 50% and 75% of the dinner load, respectively. We're not even considering expenses yet.

Waffle House.

 

[AlanB]

And Potato, part of the problem is staff inconsistency...Amtrak might need to crack down on crews limiting access to the diner. I won't begrudge them one or two seats at one seating, but if a diner has more than that to spare at a seating and there's not a nasty food shortage, there should be standing orders that the diner team will open it to coach pax, either by reservation or upon request, no questions asked.

There is a standing order if you will, that coach passengers are not to be excluded from the diner.

The problem is that the polcies of SDS almost guarantee that on a busier train the amount of seats left over after taking sleeper reservations for coach passengers are almost non-existant.

Here's how things are supposed to work under SDS for dinner. Please note that this is when the diner is staffed with the bare minimum. As more crew members are added, the number of tables seated per time block increases.

5:00 PM seat 8 people or 2 tables

5:15 PM seat 8 people

5:30 PM no seating

5:45 PM seat 8 people

6:00 PM seat 8 people

6:15 PM no seating

6:30 PM seat 8 people

6:45 PM seat 8 people

7:00 PM no seating

7:15 PM seat 8 people

7:30 PM seat 8 people

7:45 PM no seating

8:00 PM seat 8 people

8:15 PM seat 8 people

8:30 no seating

8:45 PM seat 8 people

9:00 PM seat 8 people

So for those who don't want to do the math, that's a grand total of 96 people who get to eat dinner in the dining car. Two Superliner sleepers have a capacity of 88 if every room is maxed out. That would only leave 8 seats for people in coach. Sell 4 rooms in the Trans/Dorm and coach gets locked out. And this is why at least early on, SDS was a major problem on full trains.

Amtrak has, as I noted earlier, set up formulas to increase staffing as the train moves closer to a sold out condition. So for example, if they add one SA (aka waiter) to the dining car, then the 8 people per seating is increased to 12. Add a cook on top of that SA and each seating jumps to 16 or 4 tables now. But still, capacity is still far reduced from the days when they filled the entire dining car, like is still done on the EB and the AT.

I wrote an analysis on some of this way back at the time showing the lost revenue caused by SDS and questioning how they could possibly be coming out ahead despite the reduced staffing expenses. You can view that here.

 

[AlanB]

And I know of no restaurant chains that could possibly handle the volume demanded by Amtrak each day, much less do it at a better price than what Amtrak is currently being charged by Aramark. Again, I appreciate the thinking out of the box, but I don't see how they could possibly do it cheaper. Unless of course we're going to start talking McDonalds type food.

That's interesting. I would figure that most chain restaurants handle the volume of Amtrak Dining patrons over and over again on a daily basis, for much cheaper, with perhaps equivalent costs. I cannot fathom a single restaurant NOT having the daily volume of a SINGLE Amtrak Diner. Whereas we determined that capacity for dinner in a Diner is 204 patrons per meal, that would be 600 patrons per day. Each averages $20 per meal, and we're talking $12,000 per day, and almost $360,000 per month revenue per diner. We can all presume that ain't the actual load. We know that Breakfast and Lunch probably handle 50% and 75% of the dinner load, respectively. We're not even considering expenses yet.

Waffle House.

You've taken my statement out of context.

Sure there are plenty of restaurant chains that see the volume that Amtrak does in its dining cars. But there are no chains that pump out that volume in the form of take-out meals, which is what a chain would have to supply to Amtrak. And that was what Texas Sunset had suggested, that we get a chain to cater Amtrak.

Amtrak isn't going to pull the dining car up to the restaurant's door and have everyone get off to eat their meal in the restaurant. They need their meals in a to-go format and there are no restaurants that turn out that many to-go meals per day, except again maybe a McDonalds or a Burger King.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Aramark is a step up from the last caterer; a considerable step up.

We had Aramark as a caterer at one my previous job locations. Their prepared food was absolutely terrible in my view. However, they also had a fully stocked kitchen so if you wanted an omelet made with real eggs and real cheese with fresh veggies of your own choosing you could simply order it that way and receive a fresh quality meal for the same cost. You even had freshly made salsa which is a big deal down here in South Texas. On Amtrak you don't have any of those options. All you have is the fake egg substitute topped with gooey canned veggies and tasteless process cheese. The dry precooked burger patty warmed up in the convection-wave oven. The frozen pizza. The powdered potatoes. And so on. Maybe it's better than the worst Amtrak has ever had, but it's really nothing to be satisfied with either.

And the menus are being planned by world class chefs.

I honestly don't see the appeal of this. If I ask a celebrity chef to make me the freshest, tastiest, most mind-blowing meal he can think of but told him it has to come from a commissary that specializes in mass produced snack food I'd still expect just another crappy processed meal and that's exactly what I'd get. Garbage in, garbage out. All this world class chef association does is damage the reputations of everyone involved.

 

[GlobalistPotato]

So the problem with crappy food is Amtrak's vendor, not SDS?

And SDS is the reason why there are only half-filled diners?

Interesting.

Personally, I'd want to get rid of SDS on all main LD routes (such as trains 1-6, plus the Capitol Limited, LSL and Silver Meteor). Changing to a better vendor shouldn't have that much of a difference in price, and it can be implemented on ALL routes, LD or otherwise.

Of course if I had total liberty over Amtrak's food choices, I'd also include Coke products.

I would not be surprised if getting a better vendor and going back to pre-SDS staffing levels on LD trains would INCREASE food revenue and ridership on those routes. (Of course most of them are already at capacity, but this does raise the demand cap)

CZ is the first train that needs to go back to pre-SDS levels, IMO.

Also, don't real eggs and potatoes not cost any more than powdered ones?

 

[Cristobal]

Aramark is a step up from the last caterer; a considerable step up.

We had Aramark as a caterer at one my previous job locations. Their prepared food was absolutely terrible in my view. However, they also had a fully stocked kitchen so if you wanted an omelet made with real eggs and real cheese with fresh veggies of your own choosing you could simply order it that way and receive a fresh quality meal for the same cost. You even had freshly made salsa which is a big deal down here in South Texas. On Amtrak you don't have any of those options. All you have is the fake egg substitute topped with gooey canned veggies and tasteless process cheese. The dry precooked burger patty warmed up in the convection-wave oven. The frozen pizza. The powdered potatoes. And so on. Maybe it's better than the worst Amtrak has ever had, but it's really nothing to be satisfied with either.

On both the EB and the SWC a few weeks ago I was able to get my eggs served 'over easy'. That's quite a trick starting with "fake egg substitute". Granted the potatoes left something to be desired (obviously precooked and reheated) but the corned beef hash on the SWC was pretty tasty.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

On both the EB and the SWC a few weeks ago I was able to get my eggs served 'over easy'. That's quite a trick starting with "fake egg substitute". Granted the potatoes left something to be desired (obviously precooked and reheated) but the corned beef hash on the SWC was pretty tasty.

The trains I usually ride are the Texas Eagle and Sunset Limited. I've never once been able to get eggs over-easy. Maybe they just keep running out of the real eggs and so by the time I board we're stuck with the carton stuff. Maybe things are improving of late and I'm just not aware of it yet. I was on Amtrak last month but not on the LD network and I didn't eat any food on board. Normally I ride fairly often but lately the sleepers have been completely sold out on the days I could travel.

 

[Cristobal]

On both the EB and the SWC a few weeks ago I was able to get my eggs served 'over easy'. That's quite a trick starting with "fake egg substitute". Granted the potatoes left something to be desired (obviously precooked and reheated) but the corned beef hash on the SWC was pretty tasty.

The trains I usually ride are the Texas Eagle and Sunset Limited. I've never once been able to get eggs over-easy. Maybe they just keep running out of the real eggs and so by the time I board we're stuck with the carton stuff. Maybe things are improving of late and I'm just not aware of it yet. I was on Amtrak last month but not on the LD network and I didn't eat any food on board. Normally I ride fairly often but lately the sleepers have been completely sold out on the days I could travel.

I'm not doubting your experience (or the fact that omelets and/or scrambled eggs may indeed be made from a pre-whisked batch/carton/jug of eggs). I was simply pointing out that your generalizations are not completely true with travel on all of the Amtrak LD trains.

 

[AlanB]

Aramark is a step up from the last caterer; a considerable step up.

We had Aramark as a caterer at one my previous job locations. Their prepared food was absolutely terrible in my view.

Aramark provides what you pay for. Pay more and you get better quality. Pay less and you get crappy quality.

However, they also had a fully stocked kitchen so if you wanted an omelet made with real eggs and real cheese with fresh veggies of your own choosing you could simply order it that way and receive a fresh quality meal for the same cost. You even had freshly made salsa which is a big deal down here in South Texas. On Amtrak you don't have any of those options. All you have is the fake egg substitute topped with gooey canned veggies and tasteless process cheese. The dry precooked burger patty warmed up in the convection-wave oven. The frozen pizza. The powdered potatoes. And so on. Maybe it's better than the worst Amtrak has ever had, but it's really nothing to be satisfied with either.

Except on the Cardinal, Amtrak cooks all omelets fresh on the grill in the dining car. Going back to real eggs being cooked into omelets was the first change for the better, after the roll out of SDS. And even on the Cardinal, the omelet does not use powdered eggs or “fake egg substitutes.” In the regular dining cars you can request egg beaters should you be worried about cholesterol.

And the menus are being planned by world class chefs.

I honestly don't see the appeal of this. If I ask a celebrity chef to make me the freshest, tastiest, most mind-blowing meal he can think of but told him it has to come from a commissary that specializes in mass produced snack food I'd still expect just another crappy processed meal and that's exactly what I'd get. Garbage in, garbage out. All this world class chef association does is damage the reputations of everyone involved.

Well apparently the Chefs disagree with you. They're even putting their names behind the product right on Amtrak's website. And as noted earlier, these same chefs showed up on NTD at various stations to prepare the very selections that they created for Amtrak.

 

[AlanB]

And SDS is the reason why there are only half-filled diners?

Yes.

Personally, I'd want to get rid of SDS on all main LD routes (such as trains 1-6, plus the Capitol Limited, LSL and Silver Meteor). Changing to a better vendor shouldn't have that much of a difference in price, and it can be implemented on ALL routes, LD or otherwise.

I suspect that Amtrak in general would rather dump SDS; they never wanted it. It was the solution to the Congressional mandate to cut food service losses.

Of course if I had total liberty over Amtrak's food choices, I'd also include Coke products.

Amtrak has an exclusive with Pepsi; no Coke products.

I would not be surprised if getting a better vendor and going back to pre-SDS staffing levels on LD trains would INCREASE food revenue and ridership on those routes. (Of course most of them are already at capacity, but this does raise the demand cap)

No need for a different vender, if you want better than what's there now, just pay Aramark more. That said, food service on Amtrak in general IMHO is better right now than it has been in the last 10 years. Yes, it's not the Canadian. But I've gone into fancy restaurants here in NYC paying a lot more money and had food no better than what I've gotten on Amtrak. Yes, I've hit some where the food is much better too! But the days of fresh cooking everything in the dining car are over basically. Most countries no longer do that. VIA's Canadian is a rarity these days.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Aramark provides what you pay for. Pay more and you get better quality. Pay less and you get crappy quality.

They could charge me double what they charge now so long as the food was of sufficient freshness and quality. I don't mind spending good money on a well prepared meal. I just hate spending any money on a stale and tasteless meal with lots of empty calories but no freshness or flavor. Over time I've found a couple things I like, but most of the menu remains highly unimpressive.

Except on the Cardinal, Amtrak cooks all omelets fresh on the grill in the dining car.

If this is true then why does it look and taste just like Aramark's famous carton eggs? If they really have fresh eggs and a griddle why cant they make them in any way but scrambled or omelet? It just doesn't add up.

Well apparently the Chefs disagree with you. They're even putting their names behind the product right on Amtrak's website. And as noted earlier, these same chefs showed up on NTD at various stations to prepare the very selections that they created for Amtrak.

Nothing on the web page explains what any particular chef has done for Amtrak or what specific routes and entries they worked on. The list starts out talking about Ritz-Carton quality and then quickly devolves into chefs specializing in mass catering. Do they think we'll be impressed knowing the geniuses behind such culinary experts as Gate Gourmet are helping to pick our meals?

 

[AlanB]

Aramark provides what you pay for. Pay more and you get better quality. Pay less and you get crappy quality.

They could charge me double what they charge now so long as the food was of sufficient freshness and quality. I don't mind spending good money on a well prepared meal. I just hate spending any money on a stale and tasteless meal with lots of empty calories but no freshness or flavor. Over time I've found a couple things I like, but most of the menu remains highly unimpressive.

Please, this is not intended as an insult! You are in a minority in thinking that all Amtrak food is bad. You're also in a minorty I suspect in terms of being willing to actually pay double for a meal. I understand that you don't have a frame of reference like I do, but again you can rest assured when I tell you that things are far better today than they were when SDS first rolled out. Burried someplace on the BB is a topic by Jay about the first horrible SDS meal he had.

Have we achieved the level of the Ritz yet? No! But we are way ahead of where things were when SDS rolled out, and IMHO even slightly ahead of meals pre-SDS. Note: I started riding in 1999, so my experience doesn't go back to the early Amtrak days, much less freight RR days. But to perhaps try to give it some perspective, if we were to use a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the best, here's how I'd rate things.

The Canadian a 9

SDS rollout a 2

pre SDS rollout a 6 if you got a good chef down to potentially a 2 if you got a bad chef. Usually it was someplace in the middle.

Today a 6.

Except on the Cardinal, Amtrak cooks all omelets fresh on the grill in the dining car.

If this is true then why does it look and taste just like Aramark's famous carton eggs? If they really have fresh eggs and a griddle why cant they make them in any way but scrambled or omelet? It just doesn't add up.

Because too many special orders take time and because Amtrak had decreed what they can and can't make. With limited staffing you don't want too many choice. As for why you think things taste odd, I don't know. I do suspect that the chef isn't cracking the eggs right at the time of the order, more likely the chef cracked multiple eggs when he/she first got to the car that morning to prep things.

Well apparently the Chefs disagree with you. They're even putting their names behind the product right on Amtrak's website. And as noted earlier, these same chefs showed up on NTD at various stations to prepare the very selections that they created for Amtrak.

Nothing on the web page explains what any particular chef has done for Amtrak or what specific routes and entries they worked on. The list starts out talking about Ritz-Carton quality and then quickly devolves into chefs specializing in mass catering. Do they think we'll be impressed knowing the geniuses behind such culinary experts as Gate Gourmet are helping to pick our meals?

From the Amtrak site, main food page:

Culinary Advisory TeamThe Amtrak Culinary Advisory Team is a group Amtrak employees, suppliers and other culinary professionals led by expert chef Michel Richard, that put their food minds together to develop new menu options for Acela Express First Class passengers as well as other dining patrons on select routes throughout the Amtrak system.

And there have been other press releases, info at NTD's for the last 2 or 3 years, with demo's of the chefs actually preparing right in front of those attending NTD the very meals that they will see on the trains. And finally as I scan that list, I see more than one person who doesn't work for gate and a few that own restaurants or at least work in a restaurant.

While I've no desire to deprive you of your opinion, as someone who has eaten in many of the finest restaurants in NY, I personally think that your being far to critical of the current offerings in Amtrak's dining cars. Yes, again, they're not what one would have found 50 years ago on a train. But those days are pretty much long gone, except on VIA's Canadian. For what Amtrak has to work with in terms of budget constraints, and in part based upon what I've experienced in the last 12 years, Amtrak is actually doing a pretty decent job at present IMHO.

This is not to say that one still cannot hit some lump posing as a chef that does nothing to ensure what comes out is properly cooked/reheated, screws up cooking the steaks, etc. But in general things are better than they've been over the last 12 years.

 

[user 1215]

On my most recent trip, I had an omlette for breakfast on the Capitol Ltd. It was pretty bad. It was thin, runny, and not very tasty. It was, by far, the worst meal I had on my 3 day journey. Even the ham and egg sandwich from the cafe car on the Texas Eagle was better.

Alan, I respect your opinion, and I believe that most of the dinner entree's are well intentioned and carry wonderful flavor. The problem is biting into ice crystals in my vegetarian lasagne. 30 more seconds in the convection oven and it was much better (though could have used an extra 15 seconds more).

 

[jis]

Then again I had one of the best omelets on the Silver Star a month back. So ones mileage may vary. It is well known that Amtrak has a consistency of service problem, and well, that could be addressed I suppose. I tend to agree with Alan that food is as good or better than it was in the late 90s, but it still has room for improvement. Actually one big area of possible improvement is getting consistency in the delivery and presentation.

 

[user 1215]

I think to add to Texas Sunset's thoughts, it's not so much the recipie that is of concern or perhaps even the food stock as it is the preparation. Some Amtrak chefs can ruin a hard boiled egg.

 

[jis]

I think to add to Texas Sunset's thoughts, it's not so much the recipie that is of concern or perhaps even the food stock as it is the preparation. Some Amtrak chefs can ruin a hard boiled egg.

Must be that CSX track that sloshed all the water out while the egg was trying to boil

 

[Devil's Advocate]

But to perhaps try to give it some perspective, if we were to use a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the best, here's how I'd rate things.
The Canadian a 9

SDS rollout a 2

pre SDS rollout a 6 if you got a good chef down to potentially a 2 if you got a bad chef. Usually it was someplace in the middle.

Today a 6.

Put another way, it sounds like you're saying that Amtrak normally provides a meal that would receive a score of 60 out of 100. In other words, a big fat "F" in letter grade form. I really couldn't agree more. Glad we resolved that little dispute. ^_^

 

[Bob Dylan]

Have to use a Lawyer Term and say: "It Depends!" ^_^ The only less than Satisfactory Meals I have had on the LD Trains was on the Texas Eagle, even the Cardinal was OK (except for the Breakfasts!)Overall Considering the Restraints the LSA is under on the So Called Diner Lite! :help:

And even though I don't care for the CCCs, the Food on the CONO has been Excellent every time Ive ridden that Train! (Approximately 20 times). Of course the Best Overall Meals have been in the PPC on the Starlight with the Builder a Close Second. Even had some Outstanding Meals on the Sunset Ltd., that Route seems to be staffed with Very Senior OBS that seem to still Care about Service!

If we were going to give Grades Id say Overall Amtrak would rate a 7,(I'd give the Canadian and VIA a 10!!!!! :wub: ) which is a C in most Schools! As an old Timer have to Agree With Alan that the Food is Actually Better Overall than it was 10 Years Ago ( the Fiasco of SDS Mandates is Another Story!) Of course We'll Never see the Turquoise Room or the Super Chief Diner Days again! I DO Agree with Chris that like all Contracts that are Bidded Out that a Better Supplier Could Be Found and perhaps even train (no pun intended! :lol: )the Chefs better plus also provide Another Cook to help out in the Galley! Getting Rid of the Plastic Dishes and Paper "Table Cloths" Would be a Big Plus also IMO, Presentation is Important in the Food Industry!

 

[had8ley]

Have to use a Lawyer Term and say: "It Depends!" ^_^ The only less than Satisfactory Meals I have had on the LD Trains was on the Texas Eagle, even the Cardinal was OK (except for the Breakfasts!)Overall Considering the Restraints the LSA is under on the So Called Diner Lite! :help:

And even though I don't care for the CCCs, the Food on the CONO has been Excellent every time Ive ridden that Train! (Approximately 20 times). Of course the Best Overall Meals have been in the PPC on the Starlight with the Builder a Close Second. Even had some Outstanding Meals on the Sunset Ltd., that Route seems to be staffed with Very Senior OBS that seem to still Care about Service!

If we were going to give Grades Id say Overall Amtrak would rate a 7,(I'd give the Canadian and VIA a 10!!!!! :wub: ) which is a C in most Schools! As an old Timer have to Agree With Alan that the Food is Actually Better Overall than it was 10 Years Ago ( the Fiasco of SDS Mandates is Another Story!) Of course We'll Never see the Turquoise Room or the Super Chief Diner Days again! I DO Agree with Chris that like all Contracts that are Bidded Out that a Better Supplier Could Be Found and perhaps even train (no pun intended! :lol: )the Chefs better plus also provide Another Cook to help out in the Galley! Getting Rid of the Plastic Dishes and Paper "Table Cloths" Would be a Big Plus also IMO, Presentation is Important in the Food Industry!

Yeah Jim the prices are starting to get out of the take out papaer plate category... :help:

 

[Bob Dylan]

That's for sure Jay! :help: The Prices are Getting So High for Coach Pax in the Diner (2 Steaks would be almost $50!!! plus Tax/Title /License etc. )that if people could Book a Roomette at Low or Mid Bucket for 2 it might even be Cheaper on a LD Route than Riding Coach and paying for Meals 3 meals X2, Especially since A Room Drops the Rail Fare to Low Bucket! Lots of High Bucket Coach Fares Out there too! :excl: :excl: :excl:

 

[Big Iron]

But to perhaps try to give it some perspective, if we were to use a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the best, here's how I'd rate things.
The Canadian a 9

SDS rollout a 2

pre SDS rollout a 6 if you got a good chef down to potentially a 2 if you got a bad chef. Usually it was someplace in the middle.

Today a 6.

Put another way, it sounds like you're saying that Amtrak normally provides a meal that would receive a score of 60 out of 100. In other words, a big fat "F" in letter grade form. I really couldn't agree more. Glad we resolved that little dispute. ^_^

Put another way, would you rather date a woman that was a 2 or a 6??

 

[Anderson]

That's for sure Jay! :help: The Prices are Getting So High for Coach Pax in the Diner (2 Steaks would be almost $50!!! plus Tax/Title /License etc. )that if people could Book a Roomette at Low or Mid Bucket for 2 it might even be Cheaper on a LD Route than Riding Coach and paying for Meals 3 meals X2, Especially since A Room Drops the Rail Fare to Low Bucket! Lots of High Bucket Coach Fares Out there too! :excl: :excl: :excl:

Jim,

There's no tax, which is something that I factor into my evaluation of the prices. $25 plus tax for a steak alone (even if you added in the side salad) would be a bit on the high side. $25 tax-free for a steak and either a glass of tea or milk and an after-dinner coffee, on the other hand, is a very good deal. Likewise, let's throw an IHOP order in versus Amtrak's breakfast:

IHOP:

French toast (6 slices): $5.29

Bacon (4 slices): $2.99

Coffee: $1.69

Large juice: $2.49

Total: $12.46 plus tax (and the tax can easily add another $1-1.50 if the local "prepared foods" tax is bad)

Amtrak:

French toast (4 slices): $9

Bacon (4 slices): $3

Coffee/juice: Included

Total: $12, no tax

All in all, I'd call it a break-even proposition either way...you get a little less toast on Amtrak, but I think Amtrak has slightly larger slices (and honestly, at least in my experience, the four slices are enough).

 

[Bob Dylan]

Good Point about Breakfast and the Lunch Menu, but I am Mainly Talking about the Dinner Menu! I know there is No Tax, just refering to Tip/any Alcohol etc., plus Amtrak uses Pepsi Products and OverPrices the Sodas IMO! For Two Steaks with the AmVeggies, Instant Potatoes or Rice and a Not so great Roll and Am Salad, plus a desert and Coffe/Tea or Milk I still say that $50 is Too Much for the Quality of the Meal! Other Menu items such as so called Ribs on the Texas Eagle, Chicken, the Sea Food Enchilladas etc. are way Overpriced IMO, we're Talking $30+ for Chicken , $35-$40 for other Items that aren"t that Great! The Vegetarian Items seem to especially Underwhelming and Overpriced IMO!

When I ride Coach on LD Trains I usually Eat Breakfast and Lunch in the Diner since A La Carte Cafe Prices are Similar or even Higher @ these Meals, but not Diner, I'd rather save the Money to apply towards a Sleeper, which if there are 2 people together makers the Meals a Better Deal even if they Leave Something to Be Desired in Selection, Preperation and Presentation!