I-95 collapse effect on SEPTA and Amtrak

[Metra Electric Rider]

Anybody know - or cares to speculate I suppose - on how this will affect Amtrak or how Amtrak will react?

https://www.npr.org/2023/06/11/1181554188/i-95-collapse-fire-philadelphia

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Per my source, no impact on Amtrak. Though I suppose it could increase ridership.

I read something that implied to me that SEPTA is making some kind of modification to their schedules and/or routing

 

[Brian Battuello]

Nothing on the Amtrak website. Looks like the overpass was two long blocks away from the tracks.

 

[Brian Battuello]

A lot more info here:

https://www.inquirer.com/news/live/i-95-philadelphia-bridge-fire-collapse-traffic-20230611.html#

 

[jis]

Anybody know - or cares to speculate I suppose - on how this will affect Amtrak or how Amtrak will react?

https://www.npr.org/2023/06/11/1181554188/i-95-collapse-fire-philadelphia

Why should it affect Amtrak? It is two huge blocks (350m) away from the Amtrak RoW

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

Why should it affect Amtrak? It is two huge blocks (350m) away from the Amtrak RoW

I was thinking more along the lines of people not being able to drive and the potential carmageddon (love the word, but usually overstated) since it's such a heavily trafficked highway. In other words, how much will people turn to the train or alternate routes?

 

[jis]

I was thinking more along the lines of people not being able to drive and the potential carmageddon (love the word, but usually overstated) since it's such a heavily trafficked highway. In other words, how much will people turn to the train or alternate routes?

If SEPTA steps upto the plate and lengthens trains and adds frequency, I am sure they will potentially have many more riders.

Fortunately Cornwells Heights has a large parking lot. But I think it will prove to be insufficient.

Incidentally, relatively little of New York/NJ traffic to Philly take I-95 through there unless they are going to somewhere close to I-95. Most of the through traffic takes I-295 and NJ Turnpike on the other side of the river. So effect on through Amtrak ridership may be more muted.

When I lived in NJ, most of my acquaintances who commuted to Philly and did not do so by train, generally drove down the Turnpike and crossed over to Philly on the Betsy Ross Bridge. People from the Trenton area and Mercer County - some did take I-95 but they also took I-295 across the river.

Now closure of I-95 will transfer some traffic over to the other side of the river adding to traffic on the two major N-S highways there possible slowing down traffic some. That could cause some to use trains instead, giving Amtrak some additional ridership.

 

[west point]

Would suspect that a few NJ commuters to PHL might get on Amtrak. Now NJ Transit might take a lot to Trenton that will have to change to SEPTA? Or even Amtrak at Trenton?

There are many unknowns about installing a new bridge(s). The Atlanta I-85 fire and collapse was fortunate that no underground utilities were involved. The report of manhole covers exploding leaves the question are any utilities involved that would slow reconstruction. If southbound bridge OK or even just for cars it might be able to become temporary 2 way?

 

[Maverickstation]

Incidentally, relatively little of New York/NJ traffic to Philly take I-95 through there unless they are going to somewhere close to I-95. Most of the through traffic takes I-295 and NJ Turnpike on the other side of the river. So effect on through Amtrak ridership may be more muted.

Exactly, if you were, as an example, driving from Washington DC to New York City, you would not be on this section of 95, you would be on the NJ Turnpike connecting with 95, just before/after the Delaware Memorial Bridges. A major portion of Route 95 that would have travelled through Mercer and Middlesex Counties in New Jersey, connecting with Turnpike at Route 10 was never built, thus the NJ Turnpike wound up the substitute.

Ken

 

[dlerach]

Whenever I have driven to Philadelphia or to the Main Line suburbs, I have taken 95 rather than 295 from NYC.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

Would suspect that a few NJ commuters to PHL might get on Amtrak. Now NJ Transit might take a lot to Trenton that will have to change to SEPTA? Or even Amtrak at Trenton?

There are many unknowns about installing a new bridge(s). The Atlanta I-85 fire and collapse was fortunate that no underground utilities were involved. The report of manhole covers exploding leaves the question are any utilities involved that would slow reconstruction. If southbound bridge OK or even just for cars it might be able to become temporary 2 way?

I think they both collapsed - or that at least the other span was compromised. There's footage of a car driving over it and there appearing to be a dip in the roadway.

 

[jis]

Whenever I have driven to Philadelphia or to the Main Line suburbs, I have taken 95 rather than 295 from NYC.

Yup, and that traffic will now have to detour via I-295 or take the PA Turnpike perhaps. So as I said there will be some increase in congestion across the River. but it won't be the primary NEC traffic that Amtrak carries. In terms of Amtrak trains it would be more the Keystone Corridor traffic than NEC traffic.

 

[west point]

Read somewhere that the southbound bridge has a 12 inch sag in middle. Take it as only partially accurate. If the concrete has any limestone aggregate the heat causes mini explosions in the concrete.

 

[Septa9739]

Impact on AMTRAK will be minimal. Even a fair number of Philly to New York car trips don’t go this way, let alone from the south. Fares are too high and there aren’t seats available any way. I-95 is mainly a commuter route in this area. SEPTA’s Trenton Line could become very busy, should they choose to run decent service. Surface routes 14, 20, 50, 66, and 84 could also become busy as city RRD riders shift to the more reliable Market Frankfort El due to crowding and “surprise expresses.”

 

[Septa9739]

SEPTA has just announced additional service will happen on the Fox Chase, West Trenton, and Trenton lines. What that means is TBD. The Cynwyd dinky is being bustituted, probably to provide additional peak hour crews.

 

[joelkfla]

What that means is TBD

The newspaper link posted says they will be adding cars to normally scheduled trains, and the bussing was instituted to free up rolling stock.

 

[Septa9739]

I don’t doubt that will happen, but the link below from the agency mentions service and capacity. We’ll have to see. As to Cynwyd, the line only uses a single Silverliner, so I suspect the newspaper conjectured about that. They’re a lot shorter on crews than equipment. Unlike a certain other agency, SEPTA chose to keep up with maintenance and even catch up during COVID.

https://www5.septa.org/bulletins/un...city-and-service-due-to-i-95-bridge-collapse/

 

[John from RI]

I would not drive anywhere near I-95 in the Philadelphia area if I could possibly avoide it. A northbound overpass has fallen in on the street beneath it. Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro says the southbound lanes are "structurally unsound." This is ordinarily a very heavily traveled section of highway in the mid-Atlantic states. It connects Washingron, DC to New York City. There is a parallel highway on the New Jersey side which goes into Delaware. However, that is a toll road, the New Jersey Turnpike, which is why so many travel on the Pennsylvania side which is free. But now all over the road traffic will be diverted to the Turnpike. At best that will be very slow going. At worst the Turnpike will be a parking lot of several miles.

No doubt Amtrak and the airlines will get as high prices as they can because of the disaster. Still, if I had to travel I would pay what that price. But SEPTA and New Jersey Transit will not raise prices. They coordinate their trains in Trenton so it is possible to travel from Wilmington, DL, change trains in Philadelphia, travel to Trenton, change to a train on the same platform and go on to New York Penn Station. It will not be as fast as Amtrak but it will be a lot cheaper.

I hope the southbound lanes can be opened soon so that instead of a total disaster the highway can become an almost impossible bottle neck.

 

[PRR 60]

I would not drive anywhere near I-95 in the Philadelphia area if I could possibly avoide it. A northbound overpass has fallen in on the street beneath it. Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro says the southbound lanes are "structurally unsound." This is ordinarily a very heavily traveled section of highway in the mid-Atlantic states. It connects Washingron, DC to New York City. There is a parallel highway on the New Jersey side which goes into Delaware. However, that is a toll road, the New Jersey Turnpike, which is why so many travel on the Pennsylvania side which is free. But now all over the road traffic will be diverted to the Turnpike. At best that will be very slow going. At worst the Turnpike will be a parking lot of several miles.

No doubt Amtrak and the airlines will get as high prices as they can because of the disaster. Still, if I had to travel I would pay what that price. But SEPTA and New Jersey Transit will not raise prices. They coordinate their trains in Trenton so it is possible to travel from Wilmington, DL, change trains in Philadelphia, travel to Trenton, change to a train on the same platform and go on to New York Penn Station. It will not be as fast as Amtrak but it will be a lot cheaper.

I hope the southbound lanes can be opened soon so that instead of a total disaster the highway can become an almost impossible bottle neck.

I-95 through Philadelphia is not the primary route between New York and Washington. Most through traffic uses either the NJ Turnpike or, between NJ Turnpike Exit 7 and the Delaware Memorial Bridge, I-295 (toll-free). Even bus service between New York and Philly uses the NJ Turnpike from Exit 4 north. The bridge collapse is a very big deal locally (160,000 vehicles per day have to find some other route) but will have minimal impact on intercity travel in the NEC.

 

[allanorn]

Probably a second-order benefit at best for Amtrak if there isn't enough capacity on other alternative highways to absorb the traffic that would go on I-95. The more the other freeways are locked up because they didn't have capacity to begin with, the more Amtrak could benefit for regional and longer-distance travel.

SEPTA will get used a lot more locally, but that depends partially on recommendations to work from home until further notice.

 

[John from RI]

SEPTA will be adding extra cars to its trains because of an I-95 disaster. A truck carrying gasoline caught fire underneath an I-95 overpass. The heat from the blaze caused the steel supports holding the north bound lanes to loose strenght. The north bound lanes collapsed into the lower road The south bound lanes are structurally impaired and closed to all traffic. This will take weeks or months to repair. Meanwhile that section of I-95 is closed to all traffic.
Repairs for I-95 collapse in Philly expected to take months; Shapiro to issue disaster declaration

 

[railiner]

A

I-95 through Philadelphia is not the primary route between New York and Washington. Most through traffic uses either the NJ Turnpike or, between NJ Turnpike Exit 7 and the Delaware Memorial Bridge, I-295 (toll-free). Even bus service between New York and Philly uses the NJ Turnpike from Exit 4 north. The bridge collapse is a very big deal locally (160,000 vehicles per day have to find some other route) but will have minimal impact on intercity travel in the NEC.

Agreed… the history of I-95 in that area is large. It only was routed through Pennsylvania for political reasons, as PA did not want to be “bypassed”, and relegated to be on a “secondary” routing. The NJTP should have been given that number for its entire length, and its direct connection to Delaware, and I-295 or 495 given to the Interstate through PA.

 

[west point]

Three capacity questions.
1. How much spare cars does Septa have?
2. Can it use the AEMs for more trains? Maybe Trenton - non stop?
3. How many extra engineers and conductors does it have? That may mean more trains if enough?

 

[Fenway]

 

[daybeers]

Something something transit funding at adequate levels...