Ideas about increasing Amtrak ridership

[tgstubbs1]

No, those would qualify as attack ads due to all the delays

What kind of demographic reads those Business Insider and Insider travel reports, like they had on Amtrak?

Social media seems to be very important to younger people and might be their only source of news.

 

[Northwestern]

Maybe Amtrak should hire Greta Thunberg to do its advertising.

I don't think you can increase revenue with limited services. Former Amtrak CEO Richard Anderson, after his cost slashing across the board, predicted that Amtrak, for the first time ,would be profitable in 2020. Really? You have to pretty much ignore Amtrak's method of accounting. I don't have a problem with cost cutting and overhead reduction, but no business or corporation can exist without offering a product or service people want. The Pacific Parlor Car, on the Coast Starlight, was so popular that they had to add an extra sleeper(s) to accommodate the higher ridership. An increase in revenue, no doubt. Amtrak needs to concentrate on the revenue side. My biggest gripe, with Amtrak, that it will not try new ideas to see how popular those ideas might be. Try the idea for a few months, such as peak season months, and evaluate. If the idea doesn't work, try something else.
Richard

 

[daybeers]

What kind of demographic reads those Business Insider and Insider travel reports, like they had on Amtrak?

Social media seems to be very important to younger people and might be their only source of news.

I was talking about the Amtrak Alerts Twitter account acting as attack ads against themselves due to all the delays they post about. You're right that social media is where many people get the news, and when something goes really wrong, it can be known widely very quickly. This is especially true in places where people are more connected to social media than, like the Acela getting stuck for SEVEN hours a couple weeks back, it went viral very quickly. Might not have been so widespread had it happened in North Dakota on the Empire Builder, for example.

 

[rs9]

I am a recent Amtrak convert, still awaiting my first long distance trip in May. So maybe I have a unique perspective, or I have no clue what I'm talking about. You decide!

- I wonder what it would take for Amtrak to be listed on a site like Google Flights (yes, a name change would be needed). Do the airlines pay a small commission for tickets purchased through a Google referral? One of the central problems as others have identified is that people do not intuitively think about train travel as an option. I certainly did not until recently.

- Don't make riding Amtrak an "insider" experience. My first Amtrak trip ever was on the Wolverine out of Chicago. Where do I go to wait for the train? I had no idea, because there's no signs and no info. My Lake Shore Limited trip this spring is in business class. Where do I go for priority boarding? Why am I asking people on Reddit for this info? It would take incredibly little effort to make things clear for first-time customers and maybe generate repeat customers.

- Create and define an overnight product beyond just sleepers. Yes, I know most people here love the sleepers. I can't afford it and I'm sure many others can't either. Could there be business class on every long distance route? Some sort of lay flat seat for price between business and sleepers?

- Get creative with regional/corridor travel. This is dependent on corridor service increasing. But you could give people a reason to take Amtrak on one-off occasions. A few ideas as a Chicago resident:

1. If there's a Chicago-Madison line eventually, run a college football special when Wisconsin visits Northwestern.
2. The Mendota station on the Carl Sandburg/Illini/Zephyr/Chief is within a reasonable drive of two state parks that are major draws from Chicago, but there's no public transport or reasonable taxi service. Contract out with a shuttle service and build that into a ticket package for day trips.
3. Not sure how this would work, but create group incentives for travel. I might go Chicago-Milwaukee-Chicago as a fare of $50 total for one person isn't unreasonable. If I'm in a group of four, are we really going to pay $200 when we could likely drive?

In the end, it really boils down to giving people a reason to take the train.

 

[BlackDiamond]

- Don't make riding Amtrak an "insider" experience. My first Amtrak trip ever was on the Wolverine out of Chicago. Where do I go to wait for the train? I had no idea, because there's no signs and no info. My Lake Shore Limited trip this spring is in business class. Where do I go for priority boarding? Why am I asking people on Reddit for this info? It would take incredibly little effort to make things clear for first-time customers and maybe generate repeat customers.

I basically agree with you although I think that is true for any mode of transport. Imagine if you had never flown before and were going to an airport for the first time, how confusing it would be with check in, dealing with baggage, TSA, etc. Especially now so much is basically self service rather than just walking up to a counter. However given that most people know about flying and driving but are unfamiliar with train travel, Amtrak should make an effort here to make it easier to understand for those new to rail travel.

 

[rs9]

I basically agree with you although I think that is true for any mode of transport. Imagine if you had never flown before and were going to an airport for the first time, how confusing it would be with check in, dealing with baggage, TSA, etc. Especially now so much is basically self service rather than just walking up to a counter. However given that most people know about flying and driving but are unfamiliar with train travel, Amtrak should make an effort here to make it easier to understand for those new to rail travel.

You're right, and my views are narrow as I've primarily used Chicago Union Station, so I can't apply this to the whole system. But, Chicago is certainly the #1 hub of the Amtrak system.

Even with no idea where to go at the airport, there are signs from the moment you enter for ticketing, baggage, security, "to all gates," etc. You've got the basics.

At Chicago Union Station, there is a sign that says "To All Trains." But this is a misleading sign, since most (but not all) corridor service trains assemble in the Great Hall. Adding to the confusion are television monitors that list the gates for corridor trains - gates you are not supposed to go to.

This isn't unique to the U.S. I found the Barcelona train station to be quite confusing, for example. There, trains are listed by the time of departure and the terminus city, which isn't much help if you are equipped with your train number and your own destination!

 

[west point]

There probably enough OBS personnel in the pipeline. However, I do not see enough replacement mechanical personnel being advertised to get all the bad order cars and locos into service. Example there has not been even one posting for Beech Grove.
EDIT"": Just checked, one opening for a trainer at Beech. 3 management at Wilmington/ That goes back to Jan 28th.

 

[BlackDiamond]

You're right, and my views are narrow as I've primarily used Chicago Union Station, so I can't apply this to the whole system. But, Chicago is certainly the #1 hub of the Amtrak system.

Even with no idea where to go at the airport, there are signs from the moment you enter for ticketing, baggage, security, "to all gates," etc. You've got the basics.

At Chicago Union Station, there is a sign that says "To All Trains." But this is a misleading sign, since most (but not all) corridor service trains assemble in the Great Hall. Adding to the confusion are television monitors that list the gates for corridor trains - gates you are not supposed to go to.

This isn't unique to the U.S. I found the Barcelona train station to be quite confusing, for example. There, trains are listed by the time of departure and the terminus city, which isn't much help if you are equipped with your train number and your own destination!

I agree CUS can be pretty confusing for a first time. Even as an experienced rail traveler I found it so on my first trip through there. Not bad if you have a sleeper once you learn to head to the Metropolitan lounge and wait for the "kindergarten walk".

 

[MARC Rider]

I agree CUS can be pretty confusing for a first time. Even as an experienced rail traveler I found it so on my first trip through there. Not bad if you have a sleeper once you learn to head to the Metropolitan lounge and wait for the "kindergarten walk".

Heh, you think Chicago is bad, try New York Penn Station. Two boarding levels in the old station, and now Moynihan, too, although most coach passengers will have walk down the length of the platform to find their car when they board from Moynihan, as the escalators are at the far west end of the platform. And the lower level of the old Penn Station is now a construction zone. The real thrill, if you're not familiar with the layout, is making a connection between Amtrak and NJT.

 

[BlackDiamond]

. The real thrill, if you're not familiar with the layout, is making a connection between Amtrak and NJT.

Yes I remember that from when my son and I were heading to PHL in May 2015. This was just after the 188 crash and we had to transfer to NJT to go to Trenton and get the shuttle to SEPTA West Trenton station. Fortunately the NJT train was boarding at a nearby platform and we made it just in time.

 

[bms]

I think Amtrak needs national advertising just to raise awareness that it exists. In Ohio, the most common reaction I get when mentioning train travel is that the person I'm talking to wasn't aware that intercity passenger rail service exists.

The amtrak.com site also needs to be much more user-friendly. Right now, you have to already know the routes to even know what to search for and understand what you're seeing. I don't think most people would be able to use that site to even figure out what destinations are available from their city.

 

[west point]

In one way it is simple but another very complicated.
1. Repair a quickly as possible all out of service cars.
2. Hire and train enough mechanical and operating crew members.
3. Return to 24/7 as soon as possible with some temporary changes in FRA rules and union rules.
4. Lower fares somewhat.
5. Get IT's work in gear.
6. Hire more reservation agents.

Simple? lots of luck.

 

[wildchicken13]

The amtrak.com site also needs to be much more user-friendly. Right now, you have to already know the routes to even know what to search for and understand what you're seeing. I don't think most people would be able to use that site to even figure out what destinations are available from their city.

Buying train tickets on Amtrak.com is little different than booking an airline flight or buying a bus ticket:

1. Select one-way or round-trip
2. Type in the city of origin
3. Type in the destination city
4. Enter the date(s) of travel
5. Select the number of travelers
6. Let Amtrak figure out the best routes

From there, it's a simple matter of selecting which service type you want (coach, business class, bedroom, etc.) and any additional upgrades (bicycles, pets, etc.) No need to know anything about the actual routes or how Amtrak operates.

The one thing I don't like about the Amtrak website is that it's hard to find published schedules/timetables. For example, if I Google "Amtrak Hiawatha schedule", the first result is from AmtrakHiawatha.com, a separate website from Amtrak.com.

 

[bms]

Buying train tickets on Amtrak.com is little different than booking an airline flight or buying a bus ticket:

1. Select one-way or round-trip
2. Type in the city of origin
3. Type in the destination city
4. Enter the date(s) of travel
5. Select the number of travelers
6. Let Amtrak figure out the best routes

From there, it's a simple matter of selecting which service type you want (coach, business class, bedroom, etc.) and any additional upgrades (bicycles, pets, etc.) No need to know anything about the actual routes or how Amtrak operates.

The one thing I don't like about the Amtrak website is that it's hard to find published schedules/timetables. For example, if I Google "Amtrak Hiawatha schedule", the first result is from AmtrakHiawatha.com, a separate website from Amtrak.com.

But the systems to route a plane trip will almost always find some routing because so many more planes are available compared to trains. You can't just search for any city pair and expect Amtrak to return any routing at all. And the timetables are pretty well hidden like you say.

At some better-designed sites, you put in the departure city and the arrival city field populates with a drop-down menu listing all the available destinations.

 

[joelkfla]

There are many issues with Amtrak ticketing on the web site. The biggest for me is that you can't make changes on the fly. If you want to change the date or destination of a search, you have to back out to the home page and essentially start over. And most of the time, when you do back out, you have to scroll down to find the search fields because the screen is filled with a useless ad.

Another is that you have to know what station your train goes to, not just the city. For example, if you were going to Richmond, you would first need to figure out whether your train stops at Main Street or Staples Mill. Which is a bit impossible, since there are no viewable schedules. And in some cities, you are presented with a list of bus stops in addition to the train station. And if you pick the wrong station, the system just returns a generic error message, which anyone could easily interpret to mean that there are no trains to your destination city.

Another problem is that discount fares are non-obvious. You need to have the knowledge that you must click on Traveler to reveal them. And even then, you need to scroll down, because the discount categories are beyond the bottom of the screen.

Once you do get to the schedule screen, figuring out how to display trip details and all available rooms is a whole new adventure.

And of course, there's the much-discussed lack of ability to display availability and fares for a range of dates, even just a few days.

 

[wildchicken13]

There are many issues with Amtrak ticketing on the web site. The biggest for me is that you can't make changes on the fly. If you want to change the date or destination of a search, you have to back out to the home page and essentially start over. And most of the time, when you do back out, you have to scroll down to find the search fields because the screen is filled with a useless ad.

You can make easily changes on the fly using the "New Search" button at the top of the page. It's not perfect, but it works.

Another is that you have to know what station your train goes to, not just the city. For example, if you were going to Richmond, you would first need to figure out whether your train stops at Main Street or Staples Mill. Which is a bit impossible, since there are no viewable schedules. And in some cities, you are presented with a list of bus stops in addition to the train station. And if you pick the wrong station, the system just returns a generic error message, which anyone could easily interpret to mean that there are no trains to your destination city.

I agree. As someone who's not from Boston, I don't know what the difference is between North Station, South Station, and Back Bay Station. Where does the Acela stop? Which one is closest to downtown? It is not at all obvious just by looking at the website.

Another problem is that discount fares are non-obvious. You need to have the knowledge that you must click on Traveler to reveal them. And even then, you need to scroll down, because the discount categories are beyond the bottom of the screen.

Amen.

Once you do get to the schedule screen, figuring out how to display trip details and all available rooms is a whole new adventure.

I agree. For multi-segment trips, it would be nice if there was a screen that would display the following information for each segment:

1. Station of departure (not just the name of the city, but the also name of the station for cities with multiple stations)
2. Date and time of departure
3. Station of arrival (again, the name of the station, not just the name of the city)
4. Date and time of arrival

I don't need to know the times of each intermediate stop, just where I get on and off. This would preferably be in some easily accessible format so that the user can easily compare multiple different alternatives. For example, say that I want to take the train from Chicago to Miami. Should I take the Cardinal or the Capitol Limited? The Silver Meteor or the Silver Star?

And of course, there's the much-discussed lack of ability to display availability and fares for a range of dates, even just a few days.

What we really need is one comprehensive website that compares options for flights, trains, buses, etc. Being able to compare options side-by-side and then purchase tickets without leaving the website would make travel planning a whole lot easier. Most people don't care if they are on a plane or a train or a bus. They just want to go from Point A to Point B.

 

[jis]

What we really need is one comprehensive website that compares options for flights, trains, buses, etc. Being able to compare options side-by-side and then purchase tickets without leaving the website would make travel planning a whole lot easier. Most people don't care if they are on a plane or a train or a bus. They just want to go from Point A to Point B.

The is something that the Googles, Expedias and Travelocity of the world are well placed to do. I would not hold my breath on any individual transportation company to do one of these. Even if they do, they will do so involving only themselves and their partners, not everyone.

 

[BlackDiamond]

And of course, there's the much-discussed lack of ability to display availability and fares for a range of dates, even just a few days.

This is especially annoying for cities only served triweekly such as Cincinnati. You have to know ahead of time what days the trains will run which in the old days you could get from the printed timetables, now not so easy.

 

[Amtrakfflyer]

The website absolutely needs a low fare calendar like any airline website has these days. They also need to make more lower fares available for sleepers. It may be great for revenue now but it will be short lived and will not foster repeat ridership. A great example is the family bedroom which for the most part is only sold at high bucket. We can afford the $2000 one way fares but I consider it wasting money when I can fly the family to where we’re going for $350. If and when they go down to the pre pandemic $900ish level we will be taking 3 trips a year for now it’s one every 12-18 months.

Improved food service and amenities in sleeper class also goes hand in hand with the fares and perceived value.

 

[Joe from PA]

Choices for Boston are South, Back Bay, and Rt.128. We get off at 128, which is closest to my daughter's house in Medway.

No choices for Philadelphia besides New Jersey and Delaware.

 

[toddinde]

In one way it is simple but another very complicated.
1. Repair a quickly as possible all out of service cars.
2. Hire and train enough mechanical and operating crew members.
3. Return to 24/7 as soon as possible with some temporary changes in FRA rules and union rules.
4. Lower fares somewhat.
5. Get IT's work in gear.
6. Hire more reservation agents.

Simple? lots of luck.

Let me add to that all scheduled mechanical work and overhauls are done timely.

 

[Northwestern]

Most of the vlogger content I see leaves out anything overtly negative. It shows the trains and stations which is nice, but it does not show how the staff treat customers, especially how long distance staff treat new and infrequent passengers. That kind of sanitizing can promote an expectation that Amtrak will struggle to meet. I was a big Amtrak booster for years and while I could get people to ride Amtrak once I could never get them to keep riding after they had interacted with the staff. Years later friends and family can still quote Amtrak staff reacting dismissively to questions and requests they felt were beneath them. That is not to say they are any worse than US flight attendants, but you really notice and remember attitudes when you spend more time reaching your destination.

****************************
I quite agree The best way to promote Amtrak is for Amtrak to clean up many of the problems it has. Problems relating to the on-board experience. Rude attendants and incompetent Amtrak staff, booking difficulties, unclean restrooms , poor food quality, and unacceptable on-time performance These things don't exactly promote interest and enthusiasm for potential Amtrak riders. I am getting to the point where I don't like to suggest an Amtrak trip to friends, as so many people have a negative experience after taking an Amtrak train.

I think Amtrak could be promoted with video route guides, not just on YouTube, but though other media outlets such as PBS. Let PBS have a series on Amtrak, showing many of their interesting train routes. Show various Amtrak train stops around the country, displaying fun things to see and places to go in each stop along the way. Have the videos, for a number of the routes, presented on the Amtrak website.

 

[Sidney]

****************************
I quite agree The best way to promote Amtrak is for Amtrak to clean up many of the problems it has. Problems relating to the on-board experience. Rude attendants and incompetent Amtrak staff, booking difficulties, unclean restrooms , poor food quality, and unacceptable on-time performance These things don't exactly promote interest and enthusiasm for potential Amtrak riders. I am getting to the point where I don't like to suggest an Amtrak trip to friends, as so many people have a negative experience after taking an Amtrak train.

I think Amtrak could be promoted with video route guides, not just on YouTube, but though other media outlets such as PBS. Let PBS have a series on Amtrak, showing many of their interesting train routes. Show various Amtrak train stops around the country, displaying fun things to see and places to go in each stop along the way. Have the videos, for a number of the routes, presented on the Amtrak website.

Only thing Amtrak can't control is on time performance. Everything else could be fixed. Let's begin with decent attendents and traditional dining returning to every train.

 

[Eric in East County]

Jeb Brooks' Amtrak Trip Report videos are the best "commercials" for Amtrak I've seen yet:

Amtrak California Zephyr from Chicago to San Francisco - Greener Grass

Amtrak Southwest Chief - Greener Grass

Amtrak Cardinal - Greener Grass

Travel on Amtrak's Empire Builder - Greener Grass

Amtrak Texas Eagle - Greener Grass

 

[joelkfla]

Jeb Brooks' Amtrak Trip Report videos are the best "commercials" for Amtrak I've seen yet:

Amtrak California Zephyr from Chicago to San Francisco - Greener Grass

Amtrak Southwest Chief - Greener Grass

Amtrak Cardinal - Greener Grass

Travel on Amtrak's Empire Builder - Greener Grass

Amtrak Texas Eagle - Greener Grass

Not so much the one about the overnight on the NEC.