ideas

[Asst Conductor-okj]

Hi all-

QUOTE (Asst Conductor - okj @ Fri, May 22, 2009, 04:01 PM) 5. Lack of service - Dining car services being reduced, conductors not willing to sell en-route upgrades.

Is this official Amtrak policy? If not, I might have to rethink my top-10 list.

QUOTE (Asst Conductor - okj @ Fri, May 22, 2009, 04:01 PM)

Yes I am an AC (Ass Conductor) and I don't feel it takes alot of guts to ask, ...

Then let's just call it highly unusual.

Im not sure I understand what your asking. What I listed was observations summerising what everybody was positng. Maybe you could clairify what your asking and I can give you a better answer

For the second part of that, well I was trying to put Asst conductor, seems I didn't catch that one...opps... :blush:

the conductor is in charge of the train. HE CAN get on the other employees case if there slacking off etc. he control's the other employees. so a conductor can do something about the attitude of the employees on the train.

Yes, the conductor is in charge of the train, the Asst. (got it that time) is supposed to assist the conductor. When I notice TA's slaking in their duties I try to politley remind them, and assist them if we have a few minuetes available to do so. I do agree that a well kept car makes it a much more enjoyable expierence for all.

note im not talking about you but crews in general as allot seam to be like that. there was this one dining car employee who was out of her flipping mind. screaming yelling throwing stuff telling people to get lost we don't have the room for you (after sleeping car pax were told to go to the diner for dinner) also screaming how she just wants to quit. i read about her on this forum in a trip report.

Again I sincerly would like to apoligize on behalf of Amtrak for that expierence. That is Un-excusable. I would also strongly encourage you to write in to Amtrak about your expierence so that it can be documented and proper action taken.

Whoever posted this, I want to thank you profusely for having the cahones to and consideration to find out what they can do better. By the way, if I send a compliment letter to AMTK will it find it's way to the employee named?

YES! letters both good and bad make their way down the food chain back to the train crew. Amtrak has taken a very proactive stance on customer service recently and relishes the feedbck they recive from customers, both good and bad. This informaiton is used when it comes to promotions etc. Compliments tend to find their way back and the employee gets to read them. Complaints, they can go either way depending on the the complaint the employee may see it or it may just go "into their perminate record" so to speak. This is why I strongly encourage ALL passengers to write in about their expierences.

Thanks for the compliment, I appreciate it.

Now to recap where we are thus far:

1. Communication - interact with the passengers, making frequent rounds to greet and interact with passengers, determine how they are enjoying their trips. Make announcments when unusual conditions occure, including updates as to the status of prolonged delays or other affore mentioned conditions. Making sure to sound sincere when talking to passengers, and not giving the impression of 'blowing them off'.

2. Service - Ensuring that equipment is well kept or marked as out of order on commuter trains, on the long hauls seeing that routine cleanings of facilities, specifically restrooms are clean and sanitary. Snack/Cafe/Dinig cars are equipmed for service, and if not resolving the problem as soon as possible. Providing an acceptable solution when service expectations can not be met. Ensuring that ALL employee's are doing their proper jobs, not just the ones they choose.

----

I think that sums up what I can do to personaly make your expierence more enjoyable. As for the food service (or lack there of) I would again strongly recomend that you write in a tell Amtrak if you like the selection or what is needed to improve it. After all it is YOUR tax dollars that funds the company!

BTW: I have noticed reference to SAS and SAC's, as lame as it may sound I am unfamilliar with those terms. I can't help but guess that your may be refereing to TAC and TAS (Train Attendent Coach/Sleeper respectively). Some clairificaiton would be appreciated, thanks.

 

[ourlouisiana]

Congratulations to you for requesting input as to how to serve better !!!!

Many good ideas have been brought forth, the only thing that we can add is for us, the revenue passenger, to communicate to Amtrak

via telephone, snail mail, feedback form, or personal e-mail your personal experience.

Give them train numbers and dates, and names if possible. If not they can figure out which employee you atr wtiying about. But it helps to specify, conductor Ted was very cheerful and helpful, he noticed we were taking photos and stopped by to tell us about what was ahead; or the reverse, conductor Ted rudely told us to put our cameras away.

Hopefully we have provided you with ideas.

 

[PaulM]

QUOTE (Asst Conductor - okj @ Fri, May 22, 2009, 04:01 PM) 5. Lack of service - Dining car services being reduced, conductors not willing to sell en-route upgrades.

Is this official Amtrak policy? If not, I might have to rethink my top-10 list.

QUOTE (Asst Conductor - okj @ Fri, May 22, 2009, 04:01 PM)

Yes I am an AC (Ass Conductor) and I don't feel it takes alot of guts to ask, ...

Then let's just call it highly unusual.

I'm not sure I understand what your asking. What I listed was observations summarizing what everybody was positng. Maybe you could clarify what your asking and I can give you a better answer

For the second part of that, well I was trying to put Asst conductor, seems I didn't catch that one...opps... :blush:

I'll tackle you second question first. When I used the term "guts" (I believe someone else used the term cahones), I was referring to the fact that most people find it hard to open themselves up to criticism, even constructive criticism, and thus it take courage to do so. When you disagreed; I backed off by saying it was merely unusual. As far as "Ass Conductor" is concerned, I assumed that was "in" railroad jargon.

Now for your first question. I was referring to your point #5, which I interpreted to be your response to my son's complaint that the conductor would not sell an upgrade when there were rooms available. You seemed to admit that this is normal practice; and that it has something to do with the SDS. When I referred to Amtrak policy, it was my diplomatic way of asking whether Amtrak management is aware that employees are refusing to sell a product, or has Amtrak stopped offering on-board upgrades. When I said I might rethink my top-10 list of complaints (by adding conductor's who won't sell upgrades to it), this was a light-hearted attempt to disagree with your response.

Incidentally, this question/complaint comes up regularly on this forum. It gets into strategies to employ and the proper time and most diplomatic way to do it. I seem to remember a post by a conductor that severely criticized customers who asked for an upgrade. He called them cheap skates who wasted his valuable time. He was especially critical of customers who consult the internet or Julie to see whether there is space available. His attitude was "How dare you call me a liar?"

The connection between not selling upgrades and dining car service would make for an interesting thread all by itself.

 

[Asst Conductor-okj]

QUOTE (Asst Conductor - okj @ Fri, May 22, 2009, 04:01 PM) 5. Lack of service - Dining car services being reduced, conductors not willing to sell en-route upgrades.

Is this official Amtrak policy? If not, I might have to rethink my top-10 list.

QUOTE (Asst Conductor - okj @ Fri, May 22, 2009, 04:01 PM)

Yes I am an AC (Ass Conductor) and I don't feel it takes alot of guts to ask, ...

Then let's just call it highly unusual.

I'm not sure I understand what your asking. What I listed was observations summarizing what everybody was positng. Maybe you could clarify what your asking and I can give you a better answer

For the second part of that, well I was trying to put Asst conductor, seems I didn't catch that one...opps... :blush:

I'll tackle you second question first. When I used the term "guts" (I believe someone else used the term cahones), I was referring to the fact that most people find it hard to open themselves up to criticism, even constructive criticism, and thus it take courage to do so. When you disagreed; I backed off by saying it was merely unusual. As far as "Ass Conductor" is concerned, I assumed that was "in" railroad jargon.

Now for your first question. I was referring to your point #5, which I interpreted to be your response to my son's complaint that the conductor would not sell an upgrade when there were rooms available. You seemed to admit that this is normal practice; and that it has something to do with the SDS. When I referred to Amtrak policy, it was my diplomatic way of asking whether Amtrak management is aware that employees are refusing to sell a product, or has Amtrak stopped offering on-board upgrades. When I said I might rethink my top-10 list of complaints (by adding conductor's who won't sell upgrades to it), this was a light-hearted attempt to disagree with your response.

Incidentally, this question/complaint comes up regularly on this forum. It gets into strategies to employ and the proper time and most diplomatic way to do it. I seem to remember a post by a conductor that severely criticized customers who asked for an upgrade. He called them cheap skates who wasted his valuable time. He was especially critical of customers who consult the internet or Julie to see whether there is space available. His attitude was "How dare you call me a liar?"

The connection between not selling upgrades and dining car service would make for an interesting thread all by itself.

Ok so I think I have a better grasp on your question.

I was not admitting anyting, (can not confirm or deny). I apoligize if it was poorly written, my intent was to state that I had previously read it. The official policy is that when upgrades are available, their is to be an announcement made in regaurds to such.

Off the record, I Know that they are not always 'sold' when availble for a number of reasons, usualy being most conductors are not comfortable doing the paperwork correctly, so its eaiser to just say that everything is sold out. Conductors are responsible for any difference in the revenue if not collected properly. Simillarly the LSA's are responsible for any difference in their sales reports. Again, this is nothing that I can confirm or deny, and is off the record.

In the future I would suggest asking a relieving Train and Engine crew or different conductor about upgrades futher down the line. If you still belive that upgrades are availble one could always call 800-USA-RAIL and ask Julie to speak with an Agent.

Personaly, I havent had the oppertunity to work a train where upgrades are availble, however I do agree that if there is space upgrades should be promoted and sold en-route.

 

[AlanB]

BTW: I have noticed reference to SAS and SAC's, as lame as it may sound I am unfamilliar with those terms. I can't help but guess that your may be refereing to TAC and TAS (Train Attendent Coach/Sleeper respectively). Some clairificaiton would be appreciated, thanks.

Your guess would be correct. Not everyone knows the official Amtrak designations, so they come up with their own codes that seem to make sense. I believe that he meant Service Attendant Sleeper (SAS) and Service Attendant Coach (SAC). SCA is also often used to refer to a Sleeping Car Attendant around her.

Amtrak of course calls them TAC and TAS as you've noted.

 

[Everydaymatters]

Your guess would be correct. Not everyone knows the official Amtrak designations, so they come up with their own codes that seem to make sense. I believe that he meant Service Attendant Sleeper (SAS) and Service Attendant Coach (SAC). SCA is also often used to refer to a Sleeping Car Attendant around her.
Amtrak of course calls them TAC and TAS as you've noted.

Alan, maybe you could give us all a rundown of who is who. Even after 48,000 miles and 1000 posts on this forum, I still don't know who's who and what job each does. Also, the abbreviation for each position.

Thanks,

Betty

 

[Asst Conductor - okj]

Your guess would be correct. Not everyone knows the official Amtrak designations, so they come up with their own codes that seem to make sense. I believe that he meant Service Attendant Sleeper (SAS) and Service Attendant Coach (SAC). SCA is also often used to refer to a Sleeping Car Attendant around her.
Amtrak of course calls them TAC and TAS as you've noted.

Alan, maybe you could give us all a rundown of who is who. Even after 48,000 miles and 1000 posts on this forum, I still don't know who's who and what job each does. Also, the abbreviation for each position.

Thanks,

Betty

Im not alan, but perhaps I can assist.

Conductor = usualy just refered to as of the T&E crew

Engineer = Again, refered to as the T&E crew

Asst. Conductor = AC, also refered to as T&E crew

T&E= Train and Engine

OBS= On board services

LSA = Lead Service Attendent

Steward = Dining Car Supervisor, same as LSA

TA = Train Attendent

SA = Service Attendent (susaly the wait staff in Dining Cars)

TAC = Train Attendent Coach

TASC = Train Attendent Sleeping Car

Chef = Chef, cooks the food

Conductor -

Responsible for the safe movement of the train. Revenue and Ticket Collection. Conduct of OBS crews. Safe Boarding and Detraing of passengers.

Assistant Conductor -

Assit the conductor in their duties

Engineer -

Responsible for the saftey of the locomotive cab forward. Oversees any individuals in the cab. Responsible for the safe operation of the train

LSA -

Responsible for the saftey of all passengers. Provides a high level of service to passengers, impliments on board polices and procediurs as thye affect passengers and OBS employees. Directly responsible for the conduct of OBS staff.

SA, TAC, TASC, TA -

Responsible for the cleanliness of their asigned cars. Makes sure the customers saftey and comfort expectains are met. Reminds passengers when their station is approaching. Assists with the boarding and detraing of passengers. Serves food/beverages to passengers. Etc.

NOTE : This is NOT and official listing of the crews duties. Thi is a partial list, and each crew member has many more responsibilties in the course of their job. This list is simply for your enjoyment and is in no way all inclusive.

 

[GoldenSpike]

Sportbiker:

...the AC does have control and management duties concerning service. In that context, I do think it's appropriate to talk about SAC and SAS performance.

I agree. On one trip on the TE DAL-LAX, most complained to the TA in our sleeper of the oppressive heat in the area

of the upper roomettes. Eventually the conductor or AC heard about it. Nothing was done.

The next day enroute to ELP, we got the ear of the new crew about the miserable heat. When he verified the steaming

conditions, he was steaming when he found out we complained the day before arriving in SAS and it had been kissed off.

He took charge big time by calling ahead to ELP to have their passenger/luggage transport waiting trackside by our sleeper

when we arrived. He then took a poll of those wanting to move to another sleeper. On arrival, we were promptly moved near

the head of our train.

This professional gave new meaning to what customer service means.

 

[GoldenSpike]

TA = Train AttendentSA = Service Attendent (susaly the wait staff in Dining Cars)

Our sleeper attendant on a recent trip who had been with Amtrak six months said he was classified as a TASA, explaining he could be required to also work in the diner.

 

[daveyb99]

I have had little or not problem with how the crew handles notifications. I was just on the City Of New Orleans and Texas Eagle, and both seemed to be announcing what was going on even before it was going on - know what I mean.

 

[darien-l]

I second the complaint about onboard upgrades. My biggest single issue with conductors is that they seem to sell upgrades only when they feel like it. Here's a post from a while ago detailing some of my experiences: http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?...st&p=142048

Thanks for listening!

 

[PaulM]

Ok so I think I have a better grasp on your question. ....

Regarding your #5, thanks for the clarification.

 

[ThayerATM]

Your guess would be correct. Not everyone knows the official Amtrak designations, so they come up with their own codes that seem to make sense. I believe that he meant Service Attendant Sleeper (SAS) and Service Attendant Coach (SAC). SCA is also often used to refer to a Sleeping Car Attendant around her.
Amtrak of course calls them TAC and TAS as you've noted.

Alan, maybe you could give us all a rundown of who is who. Even after 48,000 miles and 1000 posts on this forum, I still don't know who's who and what job each does. Also, the abbreviation for each position.

Thanks,

Betty

Im not alan, but perhaps I can assist.

Conductor = usualy just refered to as of the T&E crew

Engineer = Again, refered to as the T&E crew

Asst. Conductor = AC, also refered to as T&E crew

T&E= Train and Engine

OBS= On board services

LSA = Lead Service Attendent

Steward = Dining Car Supervisor, same as LSA

TA = Train Attendent

SA = Service Attendent (susaly the wait staff in Dining Cars)

TAC = Train Attendent Coach

TASC = Train Attendent Sleeping Car

Chef = Chef, cooks the food

Conductor -

Responsible for the safe movement of the train. Revenue and Ticket Collection. Conduct of OBS crews. Safe Boarding and Detraing of passengers.

Assistant Conductor -

Assit the conductor in their duties

Engineer -

Responsible for the saftey of the locomotive cab forward. Oversees any individuals in the cab. Responsible for the safe operation of the train

LSA -

Responsible for the saftey of all passengers. Provides a high level of service to passengers, impliments on board polices and procediurs as thye affect passengers and OBS employees. Directly responsible for the conduct of OBS staff.

SA, TAC, TASC, TA -

Responsible for the cleanliness of their asigned cars. Makes sure the customers saftey and comfort expectains are met. Reminds passengers when their station is approaching. Assists with the boarding and detraing of passengers. Serves food/beverages to passengers. Etc.

NOTE : This is NOT and official listing of the crews duties. Thi is a partial list, and each crew member has many more responsibilties in the course of their job. This list is simply for your enjoyment and is in no way all inclusive.

OKJ, Thanks for that break-down. I think I now understand what the Conductor can do something about, and what he/she can't do anything about.

I've always considered the Conductor to be "in charge" of the train. The engineer drives the train, and the conductor is in charge of everything that goes on aft of the engine. The conductor is the boss of bosses aft of the engine. Working down the food chain, the conductor is the "boss" of a LSA. Right? And a LSA is the "boss" of a SA. Right?

I don't want to pin this down too tight, but I'd just like to know to whom I should address my concern (if I have one) while on the train.

Rule 1) Take a concern up through the food chain on the train. Right?

Rule 2) Take it up with Amtrak if it's something that the Conductor has no control over. Right?

Rule 3) Don't sweat the small stuff. The SA can usually resolve the issue. Right?

 

[AlanB]

OKJ, Thanks for that break-down. I think I now understand what the Conductor can do something about, and what he/she can't do anything about.I've always considered the Conductor to be "in charge" of the train. The engineer drives the train, and the conductor is in charge of everything that goes on aft of the engine. The conductor is the boss of bosses aft of the engine. Working down the food chain, the conductor is the "boss" of a LSA. Right? And a LSA is the "boss" of a SA. Right?

I don't want to pin this down too tight, but I'd just like to know to whom I should address my concern (if I have one) while on the train.

Rule 1) Take a concern up through the food chain on the train. Right?

Rule 2) Take it up with Amtrak if it's something that the Conductor has no control over. Right?

Rule 3) Don't sweat the small stuff. The SA can usually resolve the issue. Right?

Seems like a good list to me.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Actually, you have to remember that the conductor is also incharge of the engineer. The train doesn't move an inch without the conductor saying it can do so.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Actually, you have to remember that the conductor is also incharge of the engineer. The train doesn't move an inch without the conductor saying it can do so.

Even when 449 backs into the engineless 49 at ALB?

 

[Asst Conductor-okj]

ThayerATM,

I would. Sounds like a good sumery of the chain of command.

Joel N Weber II,

Yes, the engineer can not move the train without the 'highball' from the conductor.

------

Thank you all for your input. I greatly apperciate your insight. I will be trying very hard to implement, or in some cases continue to practice the ideas I have learned from all of you. Please keep any suggestions, comments, concerns, or questions comming. thanks.

 

[rayray]

ThayerATM,
I would. Sounds like a good sumery of the chain of command.

Joel N Weber II,

Yes, the engineer can not move the train without the 'highball' from the conductor.

------

Thank you all for your input. I greatly apperciate your insight. I will be trying very hard to implement, or in some cases continue to practice the ideas I have learned from all of you. Please keep any suggestions, comments, concerns, or questions comming. thanks.

whenn a train stops does the conductor tell him when to stop or does the engineer know when and where to stop :unsure:

 

[user 1215]

My suggestions may require a complete overhaul of 100 years of railroading in the US. I think that there should be two in the cockpit. I believe that the conductor should have full access to control of the train should something happen to the engineer. In this regards, the conductor should have the full duty to operate the train - from the cab.

From here, the Assistant Conductor should be in control of revenue and other purser duties.

Now back to California and the survey at hand.

I would like the cab car on the PacSurf to alway carry passengers, not arbitrarily when the cab car is used to drive the train.

I would like the conductor to assist passengers with luggage to find a seat when they are having a hard time asking people to get their cello or laptop bag or shopping bag out of a seat. And if the conductor isn't willing to help a passenger find a seat, then they should stop telling them to sit down.

I wasn't aware that there were quiet cars in California...

 

[AlanB]

ThayerATM,
I would. Sounds like a good sumery of the chain of command.

Joel N Weber II,

Yes, the engineer can not move the train without the 'highball' from the conductor.

------

Thank you all for your input. I greatly apperciate your insight. I will be trying very hard to implement, or in some cases continue to practice the ideas I have learned from all of you. Please keep any suggestions, comments, concerns, or questions comming. thanks.

whenn a train stops does the conductor tell him when to stop or does the engineer know when and where to stop :unsure:

Depends on the station and the train. Most commuter/short haul trains have markers to tell the engineer where to stop on the platform. In the case of the LD's, if the platform is long enough or it's the end of the line, then the engineer usually knows where to stop. On shorter platforms the conductor will coach the engineer to a stop by telling him via the radio how many more car lengths he has until he has to stop.

 

[Shanghai]

Alan,

I was on the eastbound LSL last week when the train stopped at Schenectady, NY. The platform there must have been too short for the entire train, so the train stopped first to disembark coach passengers then it was to have moved forward so an elderly couple in the sleeper was to have disembarked. The train did not stop the second time but swiftly proceeded to Albany. When the conductor was informed of the mistake, he came to the couple and apologized and told them he would drive them to their home. He also lived in Schenectady.

 

[catblue]

Ideas and suggestions and even complaints could be of a great use to any business that wanted to improve. If it was only that easy.

Getting the people with the power to make the changes and improvements from these ideas, suggestions and complaints is the problem.

 

[Crescent ATN & TCL]

ThayerATM,
I would. Sounds like a good sumery of the chain of command.

Joel N Weber II,

Yes, the engineer can not move the train without the 'highball' from the conductor.

------

Thank you all for your input. I greatly apperciate your insight. I will be trying very hard to implement, or in some cases continue to practice the ideas I have learned from all of you. Please keep any suggestions, comments, concerns, or questions comming. thanks.

whenn a train stops does the conductor tell him when to stop or does the engineer know when and where to stop :unsure:

Depends on the station and the train. Most commuter/short haul trains have markers to tell the engineer where to stop on the platform. In the case of the LD's, if the platform is long enough or it's the end of the line, then the engineer usually knows where to stop. On shorter platforms the conductor will coach the engineer to a stop by telling him via the radio how many more car lengths he has until he has to stop.

I have been at Anniston, AL when the Crescent blew by the platform at full speed with the conductor yelling over the scanner that they missed the station. Apparently a new engineer was training and everyone in the cab was so caught up with that that they completely forgot to stop. After flood of swearing over the scanner and a failed attempt to get NS to give them a back up authorization, the conductor escorted the small group of passengers from the platform nearly a mile up the track to the train.

I also witnessed a dead head Crescent consist running a few minutes ahead of the scheduled NB Crescent a few years ago at Anniston also. Apparently a hurricane canceled the NB train and the SB continued into NOL, so they ended up with two consists in NOL. I guess they decided to run the extra consist separately to get crews back in proper rotation. When they approached Anniston they flew by at full track speed with all the passengers screaming they had been left while running down the platform after it. It wasn't until they called the next signal with a different train number that I realized what was going on. A few minutes later 19 rolled to a stop.

 

[haolerider]

My suggestions may require a complete overhaul of 100 years of railroading in the US. I think that there should be two in the cockpit. I believe that the conductor should have full access to control of the train should something happen to the engineer. In this regards, the conductor should have the full duty to operate the train - from the cab.
From here, the Assistant Conductor should be in control of revenue and other purser duties.

Now back to California and the survey at hand.

I would like the cab car on the PacSurf to alway carry passengers, not arbitrarily when the cab car is used to drive the train.

I would like the conductor to assist passengers with luggage to find a seat when they are having a hard time asking people to get their cello or laptop bag or shopping bag out of a seat. And if the conductor isn't willing to help a passenger find a seat, then they should stop telling them to sit down.

I wasn't aware that there were quiet cars in California...

What you have described in the first part of your comment is exactly what VIA did several years ago. They moved the Conductor into the cab and have a Customer Service Manager taking care of ticket collection, seating and taking care of the Customer. It works quite well.

 

[rayray]

My suggestions may require a complete overhaul of 100 years of railroading in the US. I think that there should be two in the cockpit. I believe that the conductor should have full access to control of the train should something happen to the engineer. In this regards, the conductor should have the full duty to operate the train - from the cab.
From here, the Assistant Conductor should be in control of revenue and other purser duties.

Now back to California and the survey at hand.

I would like the cab car on the PacSurf to alway carry passengers, not arbitrarily when the cab car is used to drive the train.

I would like the conductor to assist passengers with luggage to find a seat when they are having a hard time asking people to get their cello or laptop bag or shopping bag out of a seat. And if the conductor isn't willing to help a passenger find a seat, then they should stop telling them to sit down.

I wasn't aware that there were quiet cars in California...

What you have described in the first part of your comment is exactly what VIA did several years ago. They moved the Conductor into the cab and have a Customer Service Manager taking care of ticket collection, seating and taking care of the Customer. It works quite well.

the engineer and the conductor are suppose to work together but how come they dont