If You Could Initiate One New Amtrak Route..........

[AlanB]

Having a re-furbed Budd Car to connect Ogden to Salt Lake City would be like getting biscuits with your beer! I imagine Amtrak would use buses since they may be cheaper in the short term, though. Or is there commuter rail already on that stretch?

UTA's Frontrunner commuter trains already connect Ogden to Salt Lake City, and even on to Provo come later this year.

 

[Ziv]

I think that the Pioneer: Seattle - Portland - Boise - Ogden - Cheyenne - Denver plus going through to Houston via Colorado Springs, Amarillo, Lubbock, Killeen and College Station would cover the most territory, and would bring in cities (that either had never had Amtrak service or lost that service) with a total population of more than 2,000,000, plus all the surrounding countryside. I am not sure that the tracks are in place to add College Station, but a Pioneer that covered nearly 2500 miles in two days covering the US in SE/NW direction that is so lacking... Well it would be a world class train for scenery! A good mix of mountains, desert, plains and everything in between.

Having a re-furbed Budd Car to connect Ogden to Salt Lake City would be like getting biscuits with your beer! I imagine Amtrak would use buses since they may be cheaper in the short term, though. Or is there commuter rail already on that stretch?

Yep mine is very similar. For connectivity purposes, and because I would love the scenery that currently can't be viewed, I would choose a route that goes Seattle-Spokane-Missoula-Helena-Laurel (motorcoach for Billings) - Wind River Canyon - Cheyenne - Denver - Trinidad - Amarillo - Wichita Falls - Fort Worth - Dallas - Houston - New Orleans - Mobile - Jacksonville - Miami (either FEC or Orlando, I don't have a preference). I would go past just to allow the benefit of Sunset East.

Johnny, as a native Montanan, I see certain details of your route that are pretty cool! Missoula to Helena to Livingston is one of the more scenic routes of the state. I will abandon Pocatello to hang out with my friends in Missoula and Helena! Sorry Ogden! I am not sure how easy it would be to get around all the coal trains without delays, but that would be a great route!

 

[Railroad Bill]

An Amtrak route from Detroit/Toledo to Cincinnati--I-75 Corridor through KY and TN to Atlanta and south to Florida.

If the track systems were still available, this route would have a large ridership. (Especially if there were connections to Cardinal, Crescent, etc. along the way.

 

[Agent]

I think I would have a train between the Twin Cities and Kansas City via Des Moines.

 

[railiner]

A daytime multi-train corridor service Chicago-Toledo-Cleveland, splitting there to serve Buffalo and Pittsburgh. However, realizing that would probably require a pro-rail state government in Ohio:

A daytime multi-train corridor service Chicago-Milwaukee-Madison-Twin Cities. It could even use the Hiawatha name and CHI-MKE schedule slots. :lol: Yes, I realize that would also require state support, but IMHO the prospect of Minnesota and Illinois ponying up for increased CHI-MSP service (and ignoring or working around Wisconsin's almost-certain non-contribution) is somewhat more likely than Ohio doing so. :blink:

Yes, I live just outside of Chicago, how did you guess? :giggle:

I find this suggestion the most practical. While it would be nice to bring back many of those long distance routes others have mentioned, I think this is more in line with what the future of Amtrak and rail travel will develope.

Personally, I favor a strong multi-train Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati corridor, but it will be difficult to accomplish due to the lack of political will. At least for now.....hopefully things will change in the near future.

 

[NY Penn]

It's possible for a train to serve the PDX-DEN-HOU line, with almost perfect scheduling for the major cities and markets. Although the schedule even connects with the CZ, it still wouldn't be feasible economically, rendering this a moot point.

Schedule:

Spoiler

Here's an approximate schedule I posted here quite a while ago for a theoretical PDX-DEN-HOU Pioneer, based on the 1997 timetable, Google Maps, and a US Rail Atlas:

S-B........N-B.......Station

9 AM........9 PM.....Portland, OR

1 PM........6 PM......Pendleton, OR

9 PM.......10 AM.....Boise, ID

4 AM........3 AM......Ogden, UT

3 PM........5 PM......Cheyenne, WY

8 PM........9 AM.....Denver, CO

1 AM........4 AM......Colorado Springs, CO

5 AM.......12 AM......Trinidad, CO

10 AM......5 PM......Amarillo, TX

6 PM........9 AM.....Wichita Falls, TX

9 PM.......6 AM......Fort Worth

11 PM.....5 AM......Dallas

7 AM.......9 PM.....Houston

Another possibility is the Floridian. Anybody notice that although Amtrak's network has three main N-S corridors, there are no 'diagonal' ones? So two of the biggest gaps in the system are the Pioneer to TX and the Floridian/Midwest AT.

 

[amtkstn]

Bring back the Texas chief/lone star.

 

[johnny.menhennet]

It's possible for a train to serve the PDX-DEN-HOU line, with almost perfect scheduling for the major cities and markets. Although the schedule even connects with the CZ, it still wouldn't be feasible economically, rendering this a moot point.

Schedule:

Spoiler

Here's an approximate schedule I posted here quite a while ago for a theoretical PDX-DEN-HOU Pioneer, based on the 1997 timetable, Google Maps, and a US Rail Atlas:

S-B........N-B.......Station

9 AM........9 PM.....Portland, OR

1 PM........6 PM......Pendleton, OR

9 PM.......10 AM.....Boise, ID

4 AM........3 AM......Ogden, UT

3 PM........5 PM......Cheyenne, WY

8 PM........9 AM.....Denver, CO

1 AM........4 AM......Colorado Springs, CO

5 AM.......12 AM......Trinidad, CO

10 AM......5 PM......Amarillo, TX

6 PM........9 AM.....Wichita Falls, TX

9 PM.......6 AM......Fort Worth

11 PM.....5 AM......Dallas

7 AM.......9 PM.....Houston

Another possibility is the Floridian. Anybody notice that although Amtrak's network has three main N-S corridors, there are no 'diagonal' ones? So two of the biggest gaps in the system are the Pioneer to TX and the Floridian/Midwest AT.

Even with extensive padding, I'm not quite with you on the 5-hours-70-miles DEN-Colorado Springs, 2-hours-30-miles FTW-DAL, as well as the 5-hour-100-mile Denver - Cheyenne and the Dallas Houston times as well. Just in general, it doesn't need to take 70 hours to go this route. If you wanted service along the Pioneer route north of Ogden, I have a good schedule provided that would serve as a second frequency to the CS between LAX and PDX, conveniently serving LAX as well. Would take a lot of strain off the CS. I have the schedule prepared and ready but it's on my laptop at my mom's. I'll link it tomorrow. That is a good route though. But I think going via Montana and the Wind River Canyon there would be more political support as well because except for the last 15 miles into Billings, it gives you the intra-state service Montana wants via the NP line.

 

[NY Penn]

Here's an approximate schedule I posted here quite a while ago for a theoretical PDX-DEN-HOU Pioneer, based on the 1997 timetable, Google Maps, and a US Rail Atlas:

Spoiler

S-B........N-B.......Station

9 AM........9 PM.....Portland, OR

1 PM........6 PM......Pendleton, OR

9 PM.......10 AM.....Boise, ID

4 AM........3 AM......Ogden, UT

3 PM........5 PM......Cheyenne, WY

8 PM........9 AM.....Denver, CO

1 AM........4 AM......Colorado Springs, CO

5 AM.......12 AM......Trinidad, CO

10 AM......5 PM......Amarillo, TX

6 PM........9 AM.....Wichita Falls, TX

9 PM.......6 AM......Fort Worth

11 PM.....5 AM......Dallas

7 AM.......9 PM.....Houston

Even with extensive padding, I'm not quite with you on the 5-hours-70-miles DEN-Colorado Springs, 2-hours-30-miles FTW-DAL, as well as the 5-hour-100-mile Denver - Cheyenne and the Dallas Houston times as well. Just in general, it doesn't need to take 70 hours to go this route. If you wanted service along the Pioneer route north of Ogden, I have a good schedule provided that would serve as a second frequency to the CS between LAX and PDX, conveniently serving LAX as well. Would take a lot of strain off the CS. I have the schedule prepared and ready but it's on my laptop at my mom's. I'll link it tomorrow. That is a good route though. But I think going via Montana and the Wind River Canyon there would be more political support as well because except for the last 15 miles into Billings, it gives you the intra-state service Montana wants via the NP line.

The route via MT would require the train to take a ridiculously circuitous route via Boise or go via SPK, which is redundant to the EB. The areas of MT you mention would be better served by an NCH in my opinion.

Here's a better schedule. IIRC those ridiculous times are errors from editing the schedule, or layovers.

Here's a corrected version. The DAL-HOU times appear about right, given that it's around the same distance as DAL-SAS, which is 7 hours. The two hours for FTW-DAL is similar to the TE schedule and are mostly padding. This schedule corrected the rest of what you mentioned and introduced, in typical Amtrak fashion, lots of padding towards the end of the route.

Spoiler

S-B........N-B.......Station

9 AM........8 PM.....Portland, OR

1 PM........5 PM......Pendleton, OR

9 PM.......7 AM.....Boise, ID

4 AM........1 AM......Ogden, UT

3 PM........12 PM......Cheyenne, WY

5 PM........9 AM.....Denver, CO

8 PM........7 AM.....Denver, CO

1 AM........4 AM......Colorado Springs, CO

5 AM.......12 AM......Trinidad, CO

10 AM......5 PM......Amarillo, TX

6 PM........9 AM.....Wichita Falls, TX

9 PM.......6 AM......Fort Worth

11 PM.....5 AM......Dallas

7 AM.......9 PM.....Houston

As for the alternative for the CS, wouldn't that be better served by a longer CS or even a revived Desert Wind split at SLC? Nobody would ride the Pioneer as a CS alternative if it went via SLC, so it doesn't have to be a direct train.

Here's the link to the US Rail Atlas.

 

[Ziv]

Here's an approximate schedule I posted here quite a while ago for a theoretical PDX-DEN-HOU Pioneer, based on the 1997 timetable, Google Maps, and a US Rail Atlas:

Spoiler

S-B........N-B.......Station

9 AM........9 PM.....Portland, OR

1 PM........6 PM......Pendleton, OR

9 PM.......10 AM.....Boise, ID

4 AM........3 AM......Ogden, UT

3 PM........5 PM......Cheyenne, WY

8 PM........9 AM.....Denver, CO

1 AM........4 AM......Colorado Springs, CO

5 AM.......12 AM......Trinidad, CO

10 AM......5 PM......Amarillo, TX

6 PM........9 AM.....Wichita Falls, TX

9 PM.......6 AM......Fort Worth

11 PM.....5 AM......Dallas

7 AM.......9 PM.....Houston

Even with extensive padding, I'm not quite with you on the 5-hours-70-miles DEN-Colorado Springs, 2-hours-30-miles FTW-DAL, as well as the 5-hour-100-mile Denver - Cheyenne and the Dallas Houston times as well. Just in general, it doesn't need to take 70 hours to go this route. If you wanted service along the Pioneer route north of Ogden, I have a good schedule provided that would serve as a second frequency to the CS between LAX and PDX, conveniently serving LAX as well. Would take a lot of strain off the CS. I have the schedule prepared and ready but it's on my laptop at my mom's. I'll link it tomorrow. That is a good route though. But I think going via Montana and the Wind River Canyon there would be more political support as well because except for the last 15 miles into Billings, it gives you the intra-state service Montana wants via the NP line.

The route via MT would require the train to take a ridiculously circuitous route via Boise or go via SPK, which is redundant to the EB. The areas of MT you mention would be better served by an NCH in my opinion.

Here's a better schedule. IIRC those ridiculous times are errors from editing the schedule, or layovers.

Here's a corrected version. The DAL-HOU times appear about right, given that it's around the same distance as DAL-SAS, which is 7 hours. The two hours for FTW-DAL is similar to the TE schedule and are mostly padding. This schedule corrected the rest of what you mentioned and introduced, in typical Amtrak fashion, lots of padding towards the end of the route.

Spoiler

S-B........N-B.......Station

9 AM........8 PM.....Portland, OR

1 PM........5 PM......Pendleton, OR

9 PM.......7 AM.....Boise, ID

4 AM........1 AM......Ogden, UT

3 PM........12 PM......Cheyenne, WY

5 PM........9 AM.....Denver, CO

8 PM........7 AM.....Denver, CO

1 AM........4 AM......Colorado Springs, CO

5 AM.......12 AM......Trinidad, CO

10 AM......5 PM......Amarillo, TX

6 PM........9 AM.....Wichita Falls, TX

9 PM.......6 AM......Fort Worth

11 PM.....5 AM......Dallas

7 AM.......9 PM.....Houston

As for the alternative for the CS, wouldn't that be better served by a longer CS or even a revived Desert Wind split at SLC? Nobody would ride the Pioneer as a CS alternative if it went via SLC, so it doesn't have to be a direct train.

Here's the link to the US Rail Atlas.

NY PENN, am I reading your schedule right? I have it taking 70 hours or almost 3 days to do from Portland to Houston. That is less than 2300 miles, so you are talking about an average speed of around 33 mph. I worried about the coal trains slowing the route if it went through Wyoming, but the EB averages 50 mph even with the heavily padded schedule, and the CZ does 55 mph on average. Why would the Pioneer do 33 mph?

 

[NY Penn]

Wow, you're right. According to the 1992 schedule, the Pioneer averaged 49mph PDX-DEN, while my schedule averages 45mph. That's a bit less than optimal, but IMHO shouldn't be sacrificed to preserve connections with the CZ in Denver without a four-hour layover there like the Pioneer had.

On the southern segment, however, the average speed does turn out to be 33 mph. I apparently included numerous layovers SB and then forgot to remove them when I changed the schedule.

Here's the new version.

Spoiler

S-B........N-B.......Station

9 AM........8 PM.......Portland, OR

1 PM........5 PM......Pendleton, OR

9 PM.......7 AM........Boise, ID

4 AM........1 AM......Ogden, UT

3 PM........12 PM...Cheyenne, WY

5 PM........9 AM......Denver, CO

8 PM........7 AM......Denver, CO

9 PM........6 AM......Colorado Springs, CO

11 PM.......4 AM.....Trinidad, CO

4 AM.......11 PM.....Amarillo, TX

9 AM........6 PM......Wichita Falls, TX

11 AM.......4 PM.....Fort Worth

12 PM.....3 PM......Dallas

7 PM.......7 AM.......Houston

This schedule gets the north section to 45mph and the south section to 46mph. Some more time could be trimmed out of the schedule, but this is better.

 

[xyzzy]

If there was a viable Charlotte NC to Columbia SC passenger rail connection, Amtrak would likely re-route the Silver Star along the entire Piedmont route to Charlotte and then south to Columbia. This was briefly discussed in last year's Product Improvement Plan report for the Silver Star, but the report states that "there is no direct connection between NS’s Charlotte-to-Columbia rail line over which the train would be rerouted and the CSX rail line that serves Amtrak’s Columbia station, and significant investments would be required for equipment and other capital costs."

Speculation that I don't understand. Raleigh-Charlotte-Columbia is 90 miles longer than Raleigh-Hamlet-Columbia. Yes, much of the track Raleigh-Hamlet-Columbia is 60 mph and bumpy. But you're still going to get over the road faster on the ex-SAL than via Charlotte. Charlotte-Columbia is even slower (50 mph), and somebody would have to spend money to increase speeds.

Charlotte-NEC passengers already have trains to choose from; Charlotte-Florida passengers can connect in Cary or Raleigh.

As far as I know, Amtrak and CSX have a status quo agreement to maintain Raleigh-Hamlet-Columbia at FRA Class 3 with signals indefinitely. So what's the point? Closing the stations at Southern Pines, Hamlet, and Camden?

 

[Notelvis]

I think I would have a train between the Twin Cities and Kansas City via Des Moines.

I believe that this would be my second choice for adding 'just one route'. A day train Twin Cities - Kansas City would tap a huge potential market offering connections to/from points west on both the California Zephyr and Southwest Chief. Imagine St. Paul to Denver or Albuquerque qithout having to go through Chicago.

Yes - I'd love to see the Pioneer or Desert Wind or Sunset Limited East or Broadway Limited return to the timetables. For the purpose of this thread I was primarily looking for favorite fantasy train serving city pairs where passenger service had ended before Amtrak arrived...... though I wasn't clear in stating that.

Palmland - INTERESTING..... why had I never thought of just relocating the station nearer the junction as opposed to locating funding for major trackwork in Columbia.

Finally - for a rerouted Silver Star, I find it unlikely now that the state of North Carolina would be supportive of this given the major station renovation undertaken in Hamlet and, to a lesser degree, Southern Pines. I think that the NCDOT.....arguably Amtrak's best state partner in the south..... has a vested interest in keeping the train on what remains of the original Seaboard main.

 

[henryj]

Wow, you're right. According to the 1992 schedule, the Pioneer averaged 49mph PDX-DEN, while my schedule averages 45mph. That's a bit less than optimal, but IMHO shouldn't be sacrificed to preserve connections with the CZ in Denver without a four-hour layover there like the Pioneer had.

On the southern segment, however, the average speed does turn out to be 33 mph. I apparently included numerous layovers SB and then forgot to remove them when I changed the schedule.

This schedule gets the north section to 45mph and the south section to 46mph. Some more time could be trimmed out of the schedule, but this is better.

I worked up a schedule for a 'Texas Pioneer' a long time ago that is a little different. You allow too much time between Dallas and Houston. Four or five hours is plenty. Or you could use the former Lone Star route Houston to Fort Worth which was around 6 hours. You are running a bit fast between Denver and Amarillo. I also connected with the CZ in Denver, the Eagle and Heartland Flyer in Ft Worth and sent the HF on up to KC and MSP. In other words everything connected with everything. Here it is if you can read it. I left out all the connecting trains as too complicated to put on here. It's on Word and also Excel if you want all the details. Of course Amtrak has no equipment nor any orders for more so all this is just for fun.

TEXAS PIONEER

Texas Texas

Pioneer Pioneer

lv VANCOUVER BC arr 10:45 PM

7:30 AM lv SEATTLE arr 6:20 PM

11:00 AM arr PORTLAND lv 2:50 PM

11:30 AM lv PORTLAND(PT) arr 1:00 PM

10:55 PM arr BOISE lv 2:40 AM

11:00 PM lv BOISE arr 2:35 AM

1:20 AM arr SHOSHONE(MT) lv 12:40 AM

11:00 PM lv SUN VALLEY arr 3:00 AM

1:00 AM arr SHOSHONE lv 1:00 AM

1:25 AM lv SHOSHONE arr 12:35 AM

3:10 AM arr POCATELLO lv 10:50 PM

12:00 AM lv WEST YELLOWSTONE arr 2:00 AM

3:00 AM arr POCATELLO lv 11:00 PM

3:25 AM lv POCATELLO arr 10:35 PM

6:10 AM arr OGDEN lv 7:50 PM

6:30 AM lv OGDEN arr 7:30 PM

10:20 AM arr GREEN RIVER lv 3:40 PM

10:25 AM lv GREEN RIVER arr 3:35 PM

3:55 PM arr CHEYENNE(BOWIE) lv 10:05 AM

4:00 PM lv CHEYENNE(BOWIE) arr 10:00 AM

6:00 PM arr DENVER lv 8:15 AM

6:45 PM lv DENVER arr 7:30 AM

8:30 PM arr COLORADO SPRINGS lv 5:45 AM

8:45 PM lv COLORADO SPRINGS arr 5:30 AM

10:00 PM lv PUEBLO lv 4:30 AM

6:00 AM arr AMARILLO lv 9:45 PM

6:30 AM lv AMARILLO arr 9:15 PM

1:30 PM arr FT WORTH lv 3:00 PM

2:00 PM lv FT WORTH arr 2:30 PM

3:00 PM arr DALLAS lv 1:30 PM

3:30 PM lv DALLAS arr 1:00 PM

4:10 PM lv WAXAHACHIE lv 12:20 PM

4:40 PM lv CORSICANA lv 11:50 AM

5:11 PM lv TEAGUE lv 11:19 AM

5:58 PM lv N. ZULCH lv 10:31 AM

7:45 PM arr HOUSTON lv 8:45 AM

 

[Bob Dylan]

Id have to go with a CHI to Florida Train through the South but not an AutoTrain! Think it would do huge business, especially in the Winter!! The various Texas proposals I also agree with, especially extending the Heartland Flyer and Trains through Colorado! Also think a Train to Vegas would be a huge hit if done right, but have exceeded my Quota of one, wishful thinking tends to do that!! <_<

 

[Texan Eagle]

Nobody mentioned a west-to-east link bypassing Chicago? Why should folks traveling from south to south, like Los Angeles to Atlanta or Florida have to be routed via Chicago. If I could tell Amtrak to start one new route, I'd suggest something like Dallas-Atlanta, connecting to Texas Eagle and Heartland Flyer in the west and Crescent in the east.

 

[afigg]

Speculation that I don't understand. Raleigh-Charlotte-Columbia is 90 miles longer than Raleigh-Hamlet-Columbia. Yes, much of the track Raleigh-Hamlet-Columbia is 60 mph and bumpy. But you're still going to get over the road faster on the ex-SAL than via Charlotte. Charlotte-Columbia is even slower (50 mph), and somebody would have to spend money to increase speeds.

Charlotte-NEC passengers already have trains to choose from; Charlotte-Florida passengers can connect in Cary or Raleigh.

As far as I know, Amtrak and CSX have a status quo agreement to maintain Raleigh-Hamlet-Columbia at FRA Class 3 with signals indefinitely. So what's the point? Closing the stations at Southern Pines, Hamlet, and Camden?

Direct service with the Silver Star to Charlotte and Greensboro, which are much bigger population centers than Southern Pines and Hamlet NC. Southern Pines had 7,234 passengers in FY11 and Hamlet 4,820. Not all that busy. Greensboro to Charlotte will be getting fully double tracked along with other improvements to the Piedmont corridor with the $546 million in HSIPR grants that NC received. Some temptation to take advantage of those improvements.

But unless the Charlotte to Columbia route is improved with better connections, the Silver Star is not going to be re-routed through Charlotte. NC could always approach SC about a daytime Raleigh to Columbia corridor train to maintain service over that route if the Star were to someday shift.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Nobody mentioned a west-to-east link bypassing Chicago? Why should folks traveling from south to south, like Los Angeles to Atlanta or Florida have to be routed via Chicago. If I could tell Amtrak to start one new route, I'd suggest something like Dallas-Atlanta, connecting to Texas Eagle and Heartland Flyer in the west and Crescent in the east.

Think that as was said, the restart of a National Ltd. via STL with a Connection from Denver and Kansas City would fill this bill! Back in the day even the riders of the crack Trains from NYC (the 20th Century Ltd. and the Broadway Ltd.) had to change in CHI for Trains such as the Super Chief, various Zephyrs etc.)

 

[Shortline]

1346193982[/url]' post='390229']The most obvious missing link is Texas to Colorado, the most visited state by Texans. Houston, DFW, Amarillo, up the front range to Denver. Other than that all of the above including extending the Heartland Flyer south to Houston and North to Kansas City and MSP.

That. Would love to use the train for OKC-KC. I make that drive WAY too often for work. It's too far to enjoy the drive, too close to justify a flight. Plus, it might then be possible to connect to a Westbound train. (not sure, but right now if I want to go OKC-SEA its the Sunset or nothing. Would prefer to go up to a connection with the CZ, or Builder in CHI.

Also, would be nice to be able to go from the mid-South West to FL without having to cross cross the country to Chicago and Washington.....our trip to Miami would take 23 hours to drive. Takes 4 days 3 nights by train. I guess you could say we're going for the experience, rather than convenience!

 

[NY Penn]

Here's something that's actually practical: the Crescent Star (NYP-Meridian-Dallas), split from Crescent at Meridian.

That would be the Chicago bypass and also give new life to an underused part of the route.

That should be a PRIIA study.

 

[BNSFboy]

A Dallas to Denver connecting route via Amarillo, La Junta on to Denver. The route was considered but never operated but was dubbed the Caprock Express.

 

[Anderson]

I think that the Pioneer: Seattle - Portland - Boise - Ogden - Cheyenne - Denver plus going through to Houston via Colorado Springs, Amarillo, Lubbock, Killeen and College Station would cover the most territory, and would bring in cities (that either had never had Amtrak service or lost that service) with a total population of more than 2,000,000, plus all the surrounding countryside. I am not sure that the tracks are in place to add College Station, but a Pioneer that covered nearly 2500 miles in two days covering the US in SE/NW direction that is so lacking... Well it would be a world class train for scenery! A good mix of mountains, desert, plains and everything in between.

Having a re-furbed Budd Car to connect Ogden to Salt Lake City would be like getting biscuits with your beer! I imagine Amtrak would use buses since they may be cheaper in the short term, though. Or is there commuter rail already on that stretch?

FrontRunner is supposed to cover that stretch at some point, though I can't recall the timeframe on that.

For me, the question is a bit more complex as it comes down to a question of whether I more or less have to "make do" with existing track conditions (notwithstanding limited upgrades to allow passenger train use) or whether substantial upgrades are possible as part of a "package deal". Likewise, I'm excluding added frequencies on existing routes from my list for the most part; do note that I consider a sleeper train of some sort to be materially different from a daytime corridor train.

If I'm stuck with as-is tracks and we exclude already-in-process trains, I would probably go for one of the following:

-Overnight SoCal-Bay Area service a la the Lark or the Spirit of California.

-A Piedmont Limited revival to offer daylight service from Atlanta to the Northeast.

-The Montrealer.

-An overnight train on the FEC/through Florida (be it a Palmetto extension or a separate operation).

-Corridor service on the Front Range.

In general, the emphasis is on overnight trains between major cities...preferably with slightly-better-than-Amcafe OBS.

If I can get a large slab of track improvements to go with the deal, my first instinct is to force some sort of rail connection between LA and the Bay Area, even if it has to go through Techiapi. This is a bit of a copout because of CAHSR, but it's definitely #1. Excluding that, though, I would probably go for either a set of through cars on the Cardinal to link Hampton Roads on one side and STL/KCY on the other without having to go through Chicago. After that, my big item would be extending the FEC's passenger network beyond JAX, ideally with a decently-timed connecting service to Atlanta and to Savannah on the one side, and to Naples, FL from Tampa on the other.

 

[xyzzy]

Direct service with the Silver Star to Charlotte and Greensboro, which are much bigger population centers than Southern Pines and Hamlet NC.

Charlotte and Greensboro already have two trains to/from New York. They don't need a third, especially since the northbound Star would pass through Charlotte and Greensboro about an hour before 80 does.

 

[trainviews]

While new LD's would be nice to have I'm definately going to go with a corridor train, preferably with multiple frequencies, which I think will provide daily transportation opportunities to much more people. I also don't think overnight trains should be the first frequency. They provide awful times for intermediate markets and they are inherently expensive to run as labor costs rise significantly.

If HSR is part of this survey, acutally gettng the California project finished will be at the top of my list. LA to Bay Area is an obvious alignment with a perfect distance and it is possible to build because of the vast rural stretches in between. And if/when finished it is going to change the paradigm for train travel in America... :wub:

But for conventional trains I agree with Henry and others that Texas is arguably the most underserved region in the country. A Dallas-Houston (-Galveston) corridor tops my list, and getting it going at conventional speed is much more important than a multi decade, costly and politically controversial HSR project. If the first one is a succes the other will come later.

A close second will be anything Atlanta-based (for much the same reasons - underserved large population centre and reasonable corridor distances to other centers). A day train to Charlotte.-Washington and maybe NYP should probably be the first, but almost any direction is feasible.

And if I have to point to a desired long distance train I'm going to combine the two and go for the Crescent split at Meridien, so you get a NYP-Atlanta-Birmingham-Meridien-Jackson-Shreveport-Dallas train. It is probably also the LD that can be done for the lowest cost.

 

[Beth]

I'd like to see a route through South Dakota...maybe starting in Minneapolis (or Chicago) and heading down through South Dakota, Montana, southern Idaho, and probably ending up in Portland. On a side note, does anyone know why Amtrak does not currently serve South Dakota?