I did not even catch that but wow! What were they thinking, though I am not sure I agree with the current boundaries either I get most of the decisions.Some more time zone trivia…
One Atlantic state, and one Pacific state are onlr one hour apart….
FL and OR.
Interesting facts and notes in old railroad magazines
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Malheur County is on Mountain Time because it was served by UP's Oregon Short Line. West of Huntington, OR it was the Oregon-Washington Railroad & Navigation Co., running on Pacific Time and headquartered in Portland.Some more time zone trivia…
One Atlantic state, and one Pacific state are only one hour apart….
FL and OR.
As much of Malheur County's trade is with the Boise area, it makes sense to stay on Mountain time. The largest city, Ontario, was the westernmost Pioneer stop on Mountain Time.
2008 = Ontario OSL station waiting for the Pioneer.
Florida is a bit more complicated...there are nine counties in the Central Time Zone, and Gulf, one of those, is split...
https://www.floridasmart.com/articles/florida-panhandles-weird-time-zone-line
Trains July 1942 "The Twentieth Century" page 26. Consist is 13 cars not counting the locomotive power.
1st car Mail-baggage.
2nd car Lounge.
3rd car Roomette (17 roomettes).
4th car Roomette (17 roomettes).
5th car 10 roomettes and 5 double bedrooms.
6th car 4 double bedrooms. 4 compartments and 2 drawing rooms.
7th car Dining.
8th car Dining.
9th car 4 double bedrooms, 4 compartments and 2 drawing rooms.
10th car 10 roomettes and 5 double bedrooms.
11th car 13 double bedrooms.
12th car 4 double bedrooms, 4 compartments and 2 drawing rooms.
13th car Observation
1st car Mail-baggage.
2nd car Lounge.
3rd car Roomette (17 roomettes).
4th car Roomette (17 roomettes).
5th car 10 roomettes and 5 double bedrooms.
6th car 4 double bedrooms. 4 compartments and 2 drawing rooms.
7th car Dining.
8th car Dining.
9th car 4 double bedrooms, 4 compartments and 2 drawing rooms.
10th car 10 roomettes and 5 double bedrooms.
11th car 13 double bedrooms.
12th car 4 double bedrooms, 4 compartments and 2 drawing rooms.
13th car Observation
13-car trains seemed to be common on high-volume routes like New York City-Chicago. I once calculated that most of the Pennsy trains between those cities were also 13-car consists. I've never seen this explained, but it may have to do with motive power.
What is even more awe-inspiring was that westbound there was another all-Pullman train, the Commodore Vanderbilt, running ahead of it, and the all-Pullman Cleveland Limited behind it (to Cleveland, of course). These trains sometimes ran in second and third sections. As I've mentioned before, I've only seen engines displaying green lights twice in my 77 years. In WWII that was a common sight.
fdaley
OBS Chief
I think I recall reading that the New York Central ran consists up to 17 cars.
There was also the all-Pullman Detroiter between Grand Central and Detroit, departing about 7 p.m. from each terminal and arriving about 8 a.m.
What was the difference among drawing rooms, compartments and double bedrooms? I suppose drawing rooms were the best accommodation?
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I was think the difference is a compartment is what Harry Potter would on the train rides to Hogwarts.
I found this on another social media site "The drawing room was the most spacious (and expensive) private room generally available on a railroad car. They usually could accommodate 3 adults in comfort, for riding, dining or sleeping, and were equipped with a private toilet annex."
I am guessing the double bedroom would be two regular bedrooms with a door between them for a family. Much like what are on Viewliners now but maybe then without the shower and toilet.
I found this on another social media site "The drawing room was the most spacious (and expensive) private room generally available on a railroad car. They usually could accommodate 3 adults in comfort, for riding, dining or sleeping, and were equipped with a private toilet annex."
I am guessing the double bedroom would be two regular bedrooms with a door between them for a family. Much like what are on Viewliners now but maybe then without the shower and toilet.
The Pullman Company "Double Bedroom", was the standard Pullman private room for two. Similar to a "Bedroom" on Amtrak today. The "Compartment" was a slightly larger bedroom for two, with additional floor space. The "Drawing Room", was a bedroom with three beds (2 lowers and 1 upper) in the same room. A "Bedroom Suite" was two "Double Bedrooms" sold together, with the partition between them opened, yielding 4 beds and 2 restrooms.
There were also a rare "Master Room" on some roads, that was a large Compartment for two, with a private shower.
There may have been some Double Bedroom/Compartment suite combination's possible, but I'm not sure about that one, nor suites using drawing rooms as part...
There were also a rare "Master Room" on some roads, that was a large Compartment for two, with a private shower.
There may have been some Double Bedroom/Compartment suite combination's possible, but I'm not sure about that one, nor suites using drawing rooms as part...
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fdaley
OBS Chief
The drawing room had three berths -- one upper bunk and two lowers, one oriented along the side of the car and the other extending from the side toward the hallway. A "double bedroom" is just another way saying bedroom -- a room with two berths, as opposed to a roomette, which in the pre-Amtrak era (and in the east, until the Viewliners arrived in the 1990s) was for one person only. Two bedrooms with the partition between them removed was/is known as a "bedroom suite." A compartment was like a bedroom (two berths) but with more floor space. You can still ride in a compartment on the Canadian -- the Bedroom F on VIA's Manor cars was originally sold at a higher fare as a compartment, though VIA just treats it as another bedroom. Also, in VIA's Chateau cars, if you can ever find one in service, Room A is a drawing room (known as a "triple bedroom" in current VIA parlance).
Edit to add: Didn't mean to be repetitive; I was writing this as railiner was posting above.
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Interesting that the 20th Century didn't have any sections (upper and lower berths). Did any of the other NYC all Pullman trains have them? I know later in the 50s and 60s sections were pretty much gone but I imagine they were still around in the 1940s
Not interesting at all, really. The 20th Century, especially once streamlined in 1938 operated and advertised itself as an all private-room affair. Sections were, of course, operated on lesser trains.
Is that the description of one class of rooms, or is one of the "Compartment"s supposed to be something else, like "Drawing Room", which isn't listed in your comment?
fdaley
OBS Chief
The compartment was a particular type of room -- two berths, but more spacious than a bedroom. In the consist list above for the 20th Century, there are a few cars that each contained 4 double bedrooms, 4 compartments and 2 drawing rooms. On the New York Central these were treated as the premier sleeper cars -- note how they are positioned in the consist on either side of the diner and also next to the tail-end observation lounge. I believe the Central also made a point of turning them so that the view of the Hudson River would always be on the room side, rather the hallway side, for the benefit of these high-revenue customers.
Here are some pages from the Pullman Company brochure. There is some variation with the layout of each design depending on the builder and manufactured date. For instance a compartment has a variation with the two beds over each other, like Amtrak but a smaller couch. The compartment is comparable in size to Amtrak's bedroom with space for a separate chair. I didn't include the duplex roomette.
Were there any simple coach seats (non-sleeping) on these trains for those that could not afford the luxury
of a bedroom roomette drawing room ?
of a bedroom roomette drawing room ?
Can you scan and post as a PDF file the entire pamphlet? I want to see this is full resolution and all the pages.
fdaley
OBS Chief
In the '40s and '50s, the New York Central had a separate train, The Pacemaker, that was an "all-coach streamliner" for budget-minded travelers between New York and Chicago. It had dining, lounge and observation cars and ran on a similar overnight schedule, not quite as fast as the all-Pullman 20th Century Limited and Commodore Vanderbilt, but it left both ends about 3:30 in the afternoon and arrived in New York and Chicago between 7:30 and 9 a.m.
Willbridge's post above (#11 in this thread) mentions some of the other trains of the era that were geared toward coach travelers and competed for the many people who didn't want the extra cost of sleeper rooms.
Drawing Rooms had two windows (although the one in the Canadian observation-dome-cars has one lengthier window). The 2 Master Rooms in the PRR observation car had 3 chairs. They had the only showers on the train, and 2 two lower beds (one across & one sideways as in Drawing Rooms, but no upper berth). In 1964 Mom & I had a bedroom in Santa Fe's 4-4-2 car 'Regal Elm' but a woman from MI had two young sons in one of the Drawing Rooms and there was a door between that and a Compartment which her teen daughter occupied. In the common 12 Section + Drawing Room car the room had basically a Section (2 facing sofa-seats by day, upper & lower at night) by the room's only window and the 3rd bed was a sofa by day along the wall facing the 'Section.' Toilet & sink were in a small room with small translucent glass window. On some western trains there was a shower off the barber shop & perhaps one off a ladies' maid room or such.
I meant to add that bedrooms varied much. Some had a sofa with a smallish window because on the outer wall next to the window were the toilet & sink above it, so if the wall between rooms was fan-folded back toward the doors you had two toilets & two sinks next to each other and two sofas facing each other, each with a smallish window in the outside wall. Drinking water was in a Pullman jug up near the mirror above the sink. Nicer were the adjoining bedrooms with each having an enclosed toilet & sink, one bedroom with sofa and the other with a chair plus a sofa seat (thus beds running along outer wall not crosswise where long sofa was by day). Other bedrooms had two chairs by day and upper & lower beds crosswise of the car, and the sink was not in the enclosure with the toilet and was not a pull-down sink.
I can see it as clear as the scene in the movie Airplane! where the guy leaves the bathroom with a cut up face after trying to shave in all that turbulence. With all the bouncing now on a train with welded rail it could not have been smoother with jointed rail and such back then. I think I can hold off until the end of the trip for a haircut and certainly on a shave with or without a safety razor.
I meant to say the room for three was a "Drawing Room"...I have since corrected that error in my post...thanks!
Nice to see there are still others on this forum "Pullman knowledgeable"....
Here is a copy of a Go Pullman pamphlet I found online.
https://ucf.digital.flvc.org/island...o_Pullman_for__heart_of_town__Convenience.pdf
Thank You - oh to travel like that pamphlet described !
