Is 2011 Becoming the Worst Year for Delays and Disruptions?

[Devil's Advocate]

Maybe it's all just in my head but it sure seems like 2011 has been a cursed year for Amtrak thus far. I have a huge 8,000 mile trip planned for later this month and I'm starting to wonder if there is any chance at all that this trip could go smoothly. These days it seems you're lucky just to be several hours late. On a trip with seven connections it seems rather improbable that it could all go off without a hitch, if not a major complication. And with so many trains sold out your sleeper compartment is virtually guaranteed to vanish if you miss even one of your connections. Yes, you can get a credit or maybe a voucher or something, but will that really make up for several days of extremely slow and stuttered coach travel on vacation? Maybe. But maybe not. If you were me would you play it safe or would you go for it?

 

[PaulM]

You didn't post an itinerary to analyze. For example, you don't mention whether the trip is broken up or not. If not, then one missed connection could cascade to all the rest. Otherwise, there would be time to recover. So I assume you are looking for personal philosophy.

For me, being put up in a hotel by Amtrak is no problem. Also, one one-night downgrade to coach would not make me regret I went for it. Two, maybe.

An 8000 mile, 7 segment (or is it 8) trip sounds like the train is the vacation, which is different than if it were merely a means to get to and from the vacation. That plus knowing beforehand that problems could develop and being prepared for them should help.

Figure out what the worst case scenario would be for you to have regrets. Then try to figure out the odds that will happen.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Oh, whoops, this is my route.

San Antonio, TX > [TE] > Springfield, IL > [TW] > Galesburg, IL > [CZ] > Sacramento, CA > [CS] > Seattle, WA > [AC] > Vancouver, BC > [VC] > Toronto, ON > [ML] > Buffalo, NY > [Flight] > San Antonio, TX.

I didn't have much control over timing since Amtrak insists that any single redemption be in one continuous sequence. There is a natural delay of about ten hours at SAC between the CZ and CS. I can also make changes to the timing of the AC and ML runs and I have built in a few days of buffer between the AC and VC. I thought about adding some more time but it looks like I'm too late to snag another sleeper at this point.

At first glance there are many chances for hiccups or worse on routes that have been plagued with problems over the last several months. I tend to think of myself as thick skinned and adventurous, but on the other hand this is supposed to be a relaxing vacation to get my mind off my job and missing an important connection or getting stuck somewhere doesn't sound very relaxing to me. Maybe I'm just looking at this too pessimistically. Some of my more interesting travel experiences came during events or situations that seemed rather unfortunate at the time. Then again maybe a cancellation would save me from several days of bland and boring bus rides.

Obviously there's no way to know what the future will bring. The main problem I have with the current situation is that Amtrak has precious few alternatives if something happens to one of their Western LD trains. It's basically stay put or slog it out on a bus. I enjoy trains. I enjoy planes. I enjoy boats. I even enjoy driving. But riding on a bus is just about the most boring way I can think of to travel. The only form of travel it can actually beat is walking, and even then only if the distance is too far or the weather is too miserable. :lol:

 

[Train2104]

I highly doubt the Canadian will be suspended.

At least you're not taking the EB!

 

[Bob Dylan]

Go for It Chris! You're not on the EB and Hopefully the Current Disruptions on the TE and CZ will be over ASAP!The Canadian has such a Long Schedule that you Should mmake it across Canada fine! :wub: Remember it's Not Just a Vacation, it's an Adventure! I'm no Prophet but I Don't see any Busses in your Immediate Future!

 

[AlanB]

Maybe it's all just in my head but it sure seems like 2011 has been a cursed year for Amtrak thus far.

It's certainly one of the worst in my memory! But I do think that things should be turning the corner in the next few weeks overall. This is not to suggest of course that something still can't go wrong. But that can happen no matter how you decide to travel.

 

[cirdan]

About cancellations and interruptions, surely the overall rail network has many many more lines than those used by Amtrak. Therefore shouldn't it be possible to divert trains over alternative routes when things like floods happen rather than suspending them completely. Okay, I realise that crews have to learn routes and the host railroads have to approve and so on. But surely that investment would be worth it at least for key routes.

 

[Gord]

About cancellations and interruptions, surely the overall rail network has many many more lines than those used by Amtrak. Therefore shouldn't it be possible to divert trains over alternative routes when things like floods happen rather than suspending them completely. Okay, I realise that crews have to learn routes and the host railroads have to approve and so on. But surely that investment would be worth it at least for key routes.

Typically, a "pilot" engineer (or just pilot) from the host road would be on the locomotive to oversse operation over his district. This is not a big deal providing the host road has spare engineers available and nearby. I'm sure there are a ton of reasons and excuses why it's difficult to use a diversion, undercapacity for busy freight traffic and so on. You can bet that if a freight line shuts down, they divert freights to other lines with no problem. Of course, there are millions in profit at stake not just a few hundred, unprofitable passengers.

Regardless, this needs to be fixed so that Amtrak can easily divert when required. If it takes legislation, so be it.

 

[Ispolkom]

Regardless, this needs to be fixed so that Amtrak can easily divert when required. If it takes legislation, so be it.

Amtrak does often divert to other routes when circumstances require. Off the top of my head I can think of the Empire Builder using the KO sub to avoid Devils Lake and Red River flooding, the California Zephyr using the overland route and the Feather River Canyon, the Coast Starlight going over Tehachapi Pass, the Southwest Chief detouring through Amarillo. That's just in the last year or two, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some detours.

The problem is when you have to make more extensive and rarer detours, as in the case with the recent flooding in Minot, which is literally the worst that has happened in recorded history. It would have been quite possible to run the Empire Builder on a detour, at the cost a) of missing lots of intermediate stops, b) having the train arrive 24-48 hours late (that's the delay BNSF was promising for their detoured freights, even the hotshots), and c) taking the chance that a train might get stuck far from any Amtrak facilities.

Is arranging for such unusual detours (the last time the Mouse River flooded significantly was in 1969) the best way to spend Amtrak's limited funds and political influence? I doubt it. I'd think that buying more sleepers made more sense.

 

[had8ley]

About cancellations and interruptions, surely the overall rail network has many many more lines than those used by Amtrak. Therefore shouldn't it be possible to divert trains over alternative routes when things like floods happen rather than suspending them completely. Okay, I realise that crews have to learn routes and the host railroads have to approve and so on. But surely that investment would be worth it at least for key routes.

Typically, a "pilot" engineer (or just pilot) from the host road would be on the locomotive to oversse operation over his district. This is not a big deal providing the host road has spare engineers available and nearby. /quote]

Au contraire, mon ami, it is a very BIG deal if the pilot was just promoted and forgot about a 20 mph curve with 300 pax on board at 79 mph...

 

[Shanghai]

About cancellations and interruptions, surely the overall rail network has many many more lines than those used by Amtrak. Therefore shouldn't it be possible to divert trains over alternative routes when things like floods happen rather than suspending them completely. Okay, I realise that crews have to learn routes and the host railroads have to approve and so on. But surely that investment would be worth it at least for key routes.

Typically, a "pilot" engineer (or just pilot) from the host road would be on the locomotive to oversse operation over his district. This is not a big deal providing the host road has spare engineers available and nearby. /quote]

Au contraire, mon ami, it is a very BIG deal if the pilot was just promoted and forgot about a 20 mph curve with 300 pax on board at 79 mph...

Did our Had8ley post this or was it Hercule Poirot??

 

[Guest]

About cancellations and interruptions, surely the overall rail network has many many more lines than those used by Amtrak. Therefore shouldn't it be possible to divert trains over alternative routes when things like floods happen rather than suspending them completely. Okay, I realise that crews have to learn routes and the host railroads have to approve and so on. But surely that investment would be worth it at least for key routes.

Typically, a "pilot" engineer (or just pilot) from the host road would be on the locomotive to oversse operation over his district. This is not a big deal providing the host road has spare engineers available and nearby. /quote]

Au contraire, mon ami, it is a very BIG deal if the pilot was just promoted and forgot about a 20 mph curve with 300 pax on board at 79 mph...

Pilot? I want someone who is an expert on trains, not airplanes. Pilots are used to hauling 300 passengers around at 579 mph in an empty sky with no rails to guide them! Then again, they usually don’t have trucks pull out in front of them when they are rolling along at max speed.

Can you blame them if they forget about a 20 mph curve when they all look the same from 32,000 feet? :giggle:

 

[Ryan]

Regardless, this needs to be fixed so that Amtrak can easily divert when required. If it takes legislation, so be it.

Amtrak does often divert to other routes when circumstances require. Of the top of my head I can think of the Empire Builder using the KO sub to avoid Devils Lake and Red River flooding, the California Zephyr using the overland route and the Feather River Canyon, the Coast Starlight going over Tehachapi Pass, the Southwest Chief detouring through Amarillo. That's just in the last year or two, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some detours.

Heck, I think that most of these detours have been used in the last month! Tehachapi was a little over a month, but the KO, Feather River and Amarillo certainly have been.

 

[jb64]

Regardless, this needs to be fixed so that Amtrak can easily divert when required. If it takes legislation, so be it.

Amtrak does often divert to other routes when circumstances require. Of the top of my head I can think of the Empire Builder using the KO sub to avoid Devils Lake and Red River flooding, the California Zephyr using the overland route and the Feather River Canyon, the Coast Starlight going over Tehachapi Pass, the Southwest Chief detouring through Amarillo. That's just in the last year or two, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some detours.

Heck, I think that most of these detours have been used in the last month! Tehachapi was a little over a month, but the KO, Feather River and Amarillo certainly have been.

Maybe not so rare trackage anymore?

 

[TimePeace]

Pilot? I want someone who is an expert on trains, not airplanes. Pilots are used to hauling 300 passengers around at 579 mph in an empty sky with no rails to guide them! Then again, they usually don’t have trucks pull out in front of them when they are rolling along at max speed.

Can you blame them if they forget about a 20 mph curve when they all look the same from 32,000 feet? :giggle:

I know this was said in jest - but of course the term pilot describes a job has been performed in shipping since long before railroads and airplanes. We still use coastal pilots here in Maine (and pretty much everywhere else too) to guide the big ships thru the tricky local channels leading into and out of ports - and they are for the most part well paid specialists with expert local knowledge as well as vessel handling skills. The captain is still at the helm but the pilot is giving the steering and engine orders.

 

[Ryan]

Technically, one of the seamen is at the helm, the Captain is directing him/her with inputs and recommendations from the pilot.

On Navy ships it's a lot more complicated. The enlisted guy at the helm takes orders from the conning officer (usually a junior officer still undergoing training), who gives his/her orders based on recommendations from the Navigator (my old job), the Pilot, the Officer of the Deck and the Captain. Each ship does it a little bit different and even on the same ship the dynamics change as the personnel, location and situation changes.

 

[TimePeace]

Ryan thanks for those details. I was in the U.S. Navy too, but as a musician

My point still stands, that the pilot with the local knowledge is still the guy that directs, through the appropriate chain of command, the movements of the vessel. This is the comparison to railroad pilots I am making. And I actually know nothing about how that system works ...

Around here (Penobscot Bay) there is very little Navy ship traffic - maybe a couple of times a year I see a Navy vessel - but we see lots of tankers and some freighters going up and down the bay nearly every day, we often give way to them when crossing the bay in our 36' crew boat! When they get near their destination harbor, they almost always pick up a pilot; and they carry one with them on departure, often until they get out to the "sea buoy".

I guess we're way off topic - but I do find the subject interesting and would like to know more about how it is handled when local engineer "pilots" are used when trains need to be re-routed onto tracks that the regular route's engineers are unfamiliar with.

 

[trainviews]

About cancellations and interruptions, surely the overall rail network has many many more lines than those used by Amtrak. Therefore shouldn't it be possible to divert trains over alternative routes when things like floods happen rather than suspending them completely. Okay, I realise that crews have to learn routes and the host railroads have to approve and so on. But surely that investment would be worth it at least for key routes.

Typically, a "pilot" engineer (or just pilot) from the host road would be on the locomotive to oversse operation over his district. This is not a big deal providing the host road has spare engineers available and nearby. /quote]

Au contraire, mon ami, it is a very BIG deal if the pilot was just promoted and forgot about a 20 mph curve with 300 pax on board at 79 mph...

Pilot? I want someone who is an expert on trains, not airplanes. Pilots are used to hauling 300 passengers around at 579 mph in an empty sky with no rails to guide them! Then again, they usually don't have trucks pull out in front of them when they are rolling along at max speed.

Can you blame them if they forget about a 20 mph curve when they all look the same from 32,000 feet? :giggle:

Your mindset seems a bit landlocked here :giggle: .

I guess the expression comes from maritime language, where a pilot is someone coming on board to guide a ship into harbor or through difficult waters that need special knowledge. Makes sense as railroading came of age as flying was still a pipe dream for Jules Verne and others...

 

[PaulM]

Of the top of my head I can think of the Empire Builder using the KO sub to avoid Devils Lake and Red River flooding, the California Zephyr using the overland route and the Feather River Canyon, the Coast Starlight going over Tehachapi Pass, the Southwest Chief detouring through Amarillo.

Add to the list the recent case where the CZ eliminated the dogleg between Iowa and Lincoln, NE because of flooding on the Missouri.