Is the Acela worth 2.5X the price to save 10 minutes?

[dlagrua]

I certainly appreciate all the comments. My post here was not meant to provide an idea of how to pinch pennies so much as it is to illustate a practical illustration of VALUE. When we travel overnight we always book a bedroom and its usually 30-40% higher in cost than a roomette. We have more space we have a private bathroom and the meals are included, so it our mind the higher price is justifiable.

In the case of the Acela vs the Regional Service its only a 1hr 50 minute trip vs a 1hr 40 minute trip. Yes the Acela has a brighter interior, a bit wider seat and a nicer bathroom but it certainly can't go that much faster than the regional if the time savings is only 10 minutes.

There is no doubt that the Acela offers a bit more in amenities but for that little difference and a trip less than 2 hours, we can't see paying a big price. As stated before the Acela is 2 1/2 times the price! If it were just a $25.00 upgrade we would have booked it but for a $226 round trip vs a $92 round trip the regional service and the +10 minutes should do just fine on this trip.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

If I was that hard up for money I'd take the China Bus as my nephew does all the time. He is a student, like I was back in the 70s, and at that time I did not even touch Amtrak unless someone else was paying. It was the Hound all the way then

I do sometimes wonder if it really is appropriate for the government to have a policy of subsidizing Amtrak, but then making it affordable only to the more affluent travelers. I've never heard of a school lunch program which cost the student $10/day and provided food that required an additional $5/day subsidy for those who could afford the $10/day, and left those who couldn't afford the $10/day to pack a lunch from home.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

I certainly appreciate all the comments. My post here was not meant to provide an idea of how to pinch pennies so much as it is to illustate a practical illustration of VALUE. When we travel overnight we always book a bedroom and its usually 30-40% higher in cost than a roomette. We have more space we have a private bathroom and the meals are included, so it our mind the higher price is justifiable.In the case of the Acela vs the Regional Service its only a 1hr 50 minute trip vs a 1hr 40 minute trip. Yes the Acela has a brighter interior, a bit wider seat and a nicer bathroom but it certainly can't go that much faster than the regional if the time savings is only 10 minutes.

There is no doubt that the Acela offers a bit more in amenities but for that little difference and a trip less than 2 hours, we can't see paying a big price. As stated before the Acela is 2 1/2 times the price! If it were just a $25.00 upgrade we would have booked it but for a $226 round trip vs a $92 round trip the regional service and the +10 minutes should do just fine on this trip.

Congress has told Amtrak to work with a limited number of seats, and to attempt to make a profit. I believe that the number of Acela First Class seats that physically exist in the rolling stock that Congress let Amtrak buy can carry something less than 5% of the people who want to travel between New York City and DC, and the total Acela seating on that route can probably only carry roughly 20% of the travelers. Therefore, Amtrak has to set the prices so that fewer than 5% of the people who want to travel between New York City and DC consider Acela First Class an acceptably good value, and probably only about another 15% consider Acela Business Class an acceptably good value.

There is nothing stopping you from writing to your Congresspeople requesting that Congress buy Amtrak enough rolling stock so that the Acela experience becomes more affordable to someone like yourself.

 

[dlagrua]

There is nothing stopping you from writing to your Congresspeople requesting that Congress buy Amtrak enough rolling stock so that the Acela experience becomes more affordable to someone like yourself.

I can well afford the ticket price. Its just that I REFUSE to pay the huge premium that Amtrak is asking for Acela tickets on this trip. I've ridden the Acela during the first year of service and it was expensive then but it was something like 50% more in price and not 250% more as my trip request quote now shows. We are certainly not cheap; we just look for the best travel VALUE.

 

[jis]

I do sometimes wonder if it really is appropriate for the government to have a policy of subsidizing Amtrak, but then making it affordable only to the more affluent travelers. I've never heard of a school lunch program which cost the student $10/day and provided food that required an additional $5/day subsidy for those who could afford the $10/day, and left those who couldn't afford the $10/day to pack a lunch from home.

But you have heard of a highway and roads program that subsidizes them for use by only those that can afford cars, no?

 

[volkris]

I do sometimes wonder if it really is appropriate for the government to have a policy of subsidizing Amtrak, but then making it affordable only to the more affluent travelers. I've never heard of a school lunch program which cost the student $10/day and provided food that required an additional $5/day subsidy for those who could afford the $10/day, and left those who couldn't afford the $10/day to pack a lunch from home.

But you have heard of a highway and roads program that subsidizes them for use by only those that can afford cars, no?

Oh, you could name hundreds of such examples ranging from subsidizing of college to subsidizing of home purchases to subsidizing of the medical system.

Philosophical issues aside, be careful before you ask for a world where passengers aren't asked to pay more for these services. Right now you may have to decide whether or not to pay more for Acela, but is it so much better to not even have the option because the train is booked solid with people taking advantage of the free upgrade? Or to face an Amtrak that's even further undercapitalized because it can't ask Acela riders for higher fare?

 

[jis]

Oh, you could name hundreds of such examples ranging from subsidizing of college to subsidizing of home purchases to subsidizing of the medical system.
Philosophical issues aside, be careful before you ask for a world where passengers aren't asked to pay more for these services. Right now you may have to decide whether or not to pay more for Acela, but is it so much better to not even have the option because the train is booked solid with people taking advantage of the free upgrade? Or to face an Amtrak that's even further undercapitalized because it can't ask Acela riders for higher fare?

I agree with the general caution that you mention here.

 

[PRR 60]

The philosophy behind the investment in Acela is that Acela would become that rarest of services within Amtrak - a service that returns operating funds to the organization. When originally proposed, Acela was projected to return $180 million a year in operating surplus. This, in turn, would be used to offset losses in other operations - kind of an internal subsidy. Given that this is just about the only Amtrak service that is competitive with air travel for many travellers, and the NEC air market is a high fare market, it was not an unreasonable projection.

Of course, reality can vary from forecast. The overall business travel market declined affecting both air and Acela. Acela's own issues have resulted in less than the expected market share. But, even with that, Acela returned $67 million in operating surplus to the corporation in FY 2009 ($129 million in 2008). That's not too bad.

The bottom line is that Acela was not and is not intended to be just another subsidized Amtrak train for the masses. It is intended to make money, and to do that, it has to appeal to customers who expect a certain level of service and are willing to pay for that service. The Regional is there for cost conscious passengers. Acela is aimed at those who can and are willing to pay the price.

 

[jis]

And the important factor that follows is.... is you are not willing to pay for it, don't take it. It is absolutely your prerogative to make that choice for yourself. But do not expect everyone else to follow your example. It is not your prerogative to try to decide for others what they should or should not spend their money on, specially when they are causing no harm and to some extent helping you get your lower fare service, by paying more.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

The Regional is there for cost conscious passengers.

If you actually believe that, the Regional needs a lot more seats available; cost conscious passengers tend to find the Chinatown bus or traveling in a full automobile to be a cheaper option by far.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

But you have heard of a highway and roads program that subsidizes them for use by only those that can afford cars, no?

How many people who travel only by mass transit manage to not consume any goods that find their way to stores via the roads?

 

[dlagrua]

If we are concerned about government subsidies for Amtrak we must be equally concerned with the large benefit that the airlines enjoy landing, docking, storing, and flying in and out of federal government owned property called airports. Airports are built and maintained all at a huge taxpayer expense. While we are at it lets be sure to include the federal interstate highway system and the seaside ports. Compared to the whole federal transportation budget Amtrak subsidies are but a drop in the bucket. We'd be very fortunate if the airports, roads and ports could be operated with such minimal federal funding.

 

[AlanB]

But you have heard of a highway and roads program that subsidizes them for use by only those that can afford cars, no?

How many people who travel only by mass transit manage to not consume any goods that find their way to stores via the roads?

Joel,

First let me mention that 40% of all freight travels by rail. The next highest percentage is trucks, at 28%.

However, and far more important IMHO, someone like you describe is already paying for those roads via something called shipping fees. And even if you don't see them listed on your bill, like for example at the grocery store, you can rest assured that the prices on the items that you brought at the grocery store reflect the costs that the market paid in shipping fees to the truckers. The truckers in turn use those shipping fees to pay the fuel taxes and other registration fees, tire taxes and such that help to pay for our roads.

Additionally, we don't need 8, 10, 12 lane highways for our trucks. They exist for car drivers.

So further taxing a mass transit user for such luxury while denying a subsidy to mass transit is at the very least unfair.

 

[user 1215]

I say take Business Class on the Regional.

Seriously, though, when you compare the cost of the full trip between DC and BOS, and compare BC to BC, the delta price is only about $15 to save an hour and a half of travel and enjoy it in newer, albeit arguably more comfortable coaches.