I assume that refund might be the difference in price between the amounts charged for the rooms?
Or simply an "inconvenience" payment unrelated to the prices?
It was a daytime portion of the trip, so in some ways not a total disaster.
(On the other hand, it is Amtrak, so it might depend on the phase of the moon, etc, etc...)
Lake Shore Limited discussion 2023 Q4 - 2025
- Thread starter pennyk
- Start date
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It’s not about COTS or refresh work. Viewliner refreshes haven’t even started yet. The bottom line is the Viewliner IIs have had significant reliability issues - full stop - and they can’t get certain parts in a timely manner. So the bad order shop counts on the cars are high. It’s not a conspiracy there is a huge parts supply problem with those cars. The utilization rate of the cars is poor because the cars aren’t reliable enough to support a higher utilization. The shop count is too high. A couple more Viewliner 1s just came out of storage which will help but the shop count rate on the Viewliner 2s is a big problem.
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UserNameRequired
Lead Service Attendant
For these VL II’s, what are the majority of the problems seen, like cracking frames or bogeys, or like heating/AC, plumbing, doors, electrical, cosmetic items?
I’m doing my bucket list trip from Seattle to NYC in Roomettes at the end of March/beginning of April. Chicago to NYC on LSL 48 4/2 - 4/3. Didn’t think of the possibility Amtrak could downgrade me to coach, which would be a nightmare.
Is there anything I can do to be proactive to help avoid the downgrade scenario? Will the travel insurance I bought be of any assistance? I’d rather just fly home from CHI > NYC than take Coach. I’m a huge train fan and this is my dream trip, but not so much that I want to spend nearly 24 hours in coach.
Thanks for any tips, insight or advice.
Is there anything I can do to be proactive to help avoid the downgrade scenario? Will the travel insurance I bought be of any assistance? I’d rather just fly home from CHI > NYC than take Coach. I’m a huge train fan and this is my dream trip, but not so much that I want to spend nearly 24 hours in coach.
Thanks for any tips, insight or advice.
My experience was in the H room.
Power door was not working.
Flat wheel.
Everything else was about design issues. Questionable design choices that did not work for me.
The power door was unpowered, so it was very hard to open and closed.
The flat wheel may of been a issue or unlucky.
Have not read about any major issues. But with the viewliner ones, HVAC, waste water, freeze damage. So I would think mechanical systems are the weak points in any rail cars.
It really does not happen that often.
That said it’s a pain when it happens but it does not happen very frequently. So it’s a non-issue for planning purposes.
The big issues a few years ago was an equipment adjustment on short notice that got some passengers bumped due to a train derailment. Mechanic and Derailment are unfortunately and are outside of your control.
Buy the travel insurance if you want, it may or may not help for a downgrade.
I doubt insurance would help with a downgrade. Despite hearing about it here, it is actually pretty rare. As I understand it, you are staying with some friends at your stops, so if you did get downgraded, maybe you could stay an extra day and catch a room on a later train. They should give it to you at the same price if you ask the right person. Amtrak phone reps can be very inconsistent. If you don't get the answer you like, ask (nicely) to speak to customer relations. Also, I assume you joined the Amtrak Guest Rewards plan, they give you a different number you can call and speak with a more flexible person. You can use that number even if you're not travelling on points.
Your first two legs are on Superliner equipment, so the bad news is that you get a *very* tiny room, but it works for one person. Bathroom down the hall. The good news is that you get quite good diner food. On the Lake Shore Limited, you'll get a slightly larger room which may or may not have a toilet, depending on which type of car you get. However the food, while served in a nice dining car, is a strange reheated plate known for some reason as the "Flex" meal. It is edible, but a bit of a disappointment after western train meals.
In case you hadn't heard, you are allowed to bring your own alcoholic beverages with you as long as you drink them in your room.
Your first two legs are on Superliner equipment, so the bad news is that you get a *very* tiny room, but it works for one person. Bathroom down the hall. The good news is that you get quite good diner food. On the Lake Shore Limited, you'll get a slightly larger room which may or may not have a toilet, depending on which type of car you get. However the food, while served in a nice dining car, is a strange reheated plate known for some reason as the "Flex" meal. It is edible, but a bit of a disappointment after western train meals.
In case you hadn't heard, you are allowed to bring your own alcoholic beverages with you as long as you drink them in your room.
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If they downgrade you, you should be proactive and call immediately and ask to be booked on another train. This is assuming you have the time to take the Cap Ltd or the Cardinal through Washington DC? Both of those are very pretty routes, but they do take longer with the transfer to the NEC.
You can also ask to be re-booked on a different day, if you have another day. Any of these options may require you to stay overnight in CHI on your own dime. If you didn't plan an extra day before you absolutely need to be home, you've learned a valuable Amtrak lesson.
I've only once been in a situation (blizzard in upstate NY, had already been delayed by my spare day) where I bailed and got a plane ticket. If that's the case, you can expect not only a full refund (of points or $$), but possibly a voucher as well for the inconvenience (which I got because my EB was delayed into CHI). You should demand at minimum the full refund.
trimetbusfan
OBS Chief
As others on this forum have said, being downgraded is way less common than it was several years ago.
The only common way you’d be downgraded nowadays is if equipment had to be pulled from the train mid-route due to a mechanical issue (which is still pretty uncommon).
If equipment fails before departing an initial terminal with protect equipment, it will be swapped out for equipment that works.
Thus, I would not really worry too much about being downgraded. Btw, having the insurance does not really help you in the case of a downgrade, from what I’ve seen.
Thanks for everyone’s input! I’ll cross my fingers that I won’t get unlucky with what seems to be a rare downgrade. I don’t have much flexibility with my timing, so I can’t rebook for the next day and I believe the Cardinal doesn’t run the day I’m leaving from Chicago.
Really looking forward to this trip. I think I’ve watched every Empire Builder and most Lake Shore Limited video on YouTube over the past three months.
Really looking forward to this trip. I think I’ve watched every Empire Builder and most Lake Shore Limited video on YouTube over the past three months.
Also cracked plastic arm rest along window, and cracked, curling table veneer, both exposing sharp edges. I, too, have experienced a variety of problems with the sliding door on the H-room, including inability to lock due to not closing fully, door randomly opening, and door continuously opening, closing, opening, etc., until power was shut off, which, as previously stated, makes it very difficult to work manually. It feels like you're fighting the power closing mechanism, and the outside handle is just a shallow depression.
Oh, and on one occasion, when the SC attendant opened the upper berth, the handle came off in her hand.
I wonder if when the B&A gets mostly double tracked, the substitution may be unnecessary. Wishful thinking maybe.
caravanman
Engineer
"Quote"
It’s not about COTS or refresh work. Viewliner refreshes haven’t even started yet. The bottom line is the Viewliner IIs have had significant reliability issues - full stop - and they can’t get certain parts in a timely manner. So the bad order shop counts on the cars are high. It’s not a conspiracy there is a huge parts supply problem with those cars. The utilization rate of the cars is poor because the cars aren’t reliable enough to support a higher utilization. The shop count is too high. A couple more Viewliner 1s just came out of storage which will help but the shop count rate on the Viewliner 2s is a big problem.
Are "spare parts" hard to obtain for imported trainsets in use in America, or is it mainly the USA made ones?
It’s not about COTS or refresh work. Viewliner refreshes haven’t even started yet. The bottom line is the Viewliner IIs have had significant reliability issues - full stop - and they can’t get certain parts in a timely manner. So the bad order shop counts on the cars are high. It’s not a conspiracy there is a huge parts supply problem with those cars. The utilization rate of the cars is poor because the cars aren’t reliable enough to support a higher utilization. The shop count is too high. A couple more Viewliner 1s just came out of storage which will help but the shop count rate on the Viewliner 2s is a big problem.
Are "spare parts" hard to obtain for imported trainsets in use in America, or is it mainly the USA made ones?
Another "bad source" for Amtrak equipment. I only hope that Stadler gets the order for new long distance equipment to replace the Superliners. They seem to know what they are doing.
There are not any imported trainsets in use by Amtrak. "Buy American" restrictions in the grants require US assembly. However, there being no more US passenger rail car builders, it is done in US plants of US subsidiaries of foreign companies. Bombardier (rail division taken over by Alstom, IIRC, so formerly Canadian, now French) at Barre, VT, CAF (Spanish and the builders of the V IIs) at Elmira, NY and Siemens (German) at Sacramento, CA.
Since all of Amtrak's car suppliers are under the same basic model, US subsidiary of European car builder, parts availability or lack thereof is more related to the vendors themselves, CAF being pretty much a disaster and Siemens apparently OK, and Amtrak's contracting and vendor management.
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Concur, CAF is a disaster and should get no more orders, but should be held responsible for defects and other issues with the equipment they sold Amtrak.
Well at the end of the day that’s the whole point of Amtrak’s existence. If there were alternatives then Amtrak could be put out to pasture.
caravanman
Engineer
That's interesting. I had assumed that the V II were just upgrades of the V1, I didn't know they were 100% new.
Who designed and manufactured the original Superliners?
I guess it is not much of a priority for companies to make a few individual miscellaneous spare parts if that is not their core business?
There's a really detailed history of the Viewliners at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viewliner
Superliner Is were built by Pullman-Standard. They were the last cars Pullman-Standard made. The plans were bought by Bombardier and Bombardier manufacturered the Superliner IIs.
