Lake Shore Limited discussion

[fhussain44]

What happened to business class on Lake Shore Limited from Albany -> Chicago?

I took it around two years ago. But seems not an option anymore? Or am I searching incorrectly ?

 

[jis]

I took it around two years ago. But seems not an option anymore? Or am I searching incorrectly ?

It has been discontinued quite a while back. The half Cafe half BC car was found to be quite inadequate to serve5 to 7 Coach passengers, so it was replaced by a full Cafe car and that is where things stand at present.

 

[rs9]

It has been discontinued quite a while back. The half Cafe half BC car was found to be quite inadequate to serve5 to 7 Coach passengers, so it was replaced by a full Cafe car and that is where things stand at present.

I'm sure this won't happen, but now that the Venture business class cars are entering service, and Amtrak presumably will have some slack in the half-cafe, half-BC car fleet, it would be nice to see the LSL and the Cardinal run with both the cafe car and the half cafe, half BC car. Beyond providing much-needed business class service, the extra cafe space would be of use for all passengers. The bar/concession portion wouldn't need to be open or staffed. But I know I'm dreaming here.

 

[jis]

It would make sense to deploy 3 of the released half BC half Cafe cars to the LSL and use the half Cafe portion as unstaffed table space IMHO.

 

[zephyr17]

It would make sense to deploy 3 of the released half BC half Cafe cars to the LSL and use the half Cafe portion as unstaffed table space IMHO.

"Unstaffed table space" could have two meanings, a car without a service attendant or a car whose tables are not occupied by staff

On the more serious side, yeah, putting BC/cafe car back on in addition to the current cafe makes sense. They should run it out of New York and staff it, at least as far as Albany.

 

[BlackDiamond]

"Unstaffed table space" could have two meanings, a car without a service attendant or a car whose tables are not occupied by staff

On the more serious side, yeah, putting BC/cafe car back on in addition to the current cafe makes sense. They should run it out of New York and staff it, at least as far as Albany.

I was thinking run the half cafe/BC on 448/449 and have the full cafe run out of NYP that way coach passengers have cafe service on both legs of the LSL.

 

[joelkfla]

A question out of curiosity: Seeing as the line number displays on the cars are only 4 digits, what is the line number of the Boston sleeper?

 

[jis]

A question out of curiosity: Seeing as the line number displays on the cars are only 4 digits, what is the line number of the Boston sleeper?

IIRC it is xx20 where xx is 48 or 49. I am sure I will be swiftly corrected by someone if I recall incorrectly.

 

[PVD]

That's how I remember it, but it's been a few years.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

IIRC it is xx20 where xx is 48 or 49. I am sure I will be swiftly corrected by someone if I recall incorrectly.

I believe you're right. Then, again, you may have been the one I heard that from in the past.

 

[fdaley]

Definitely 4820 or 4920.

 

[Mailliw]

I was thinking run the half cafe/BC on 448/449 and have the full cafe run out of NYP that way coach passengers have cafe service on both legs of the LSL.

That makes way too much sense for Amtrak.

 

[rs9]

I was thinking run the half cafe/BC on 448/449 and have the full cafe run out of NYP that way coach passengers have cafe service on both legs of the LSL.

The half-cafe does make more sense for ALB-BOS, but I would be curious as to whether the business class product makes more sense for in and out of NYP - since it has to be one or the other.

For what it's worth, when business class service was removed from the LSL in July 2022, the field on the website for business class was listed as Sold Out, but that field moved from the 448/449 trains to the 48/49 trains. A sign of things to come? Amtrak website randomness? Who knows.

 

[PVD]

It would be nice to have cafe service on both branches, but there is a real question as to whether you could staff it and not take a beating cost wise. You are talking about adding an additional LSA, since the current ones have their own responsibilities and inventories to manage.

 

[zephyr17]

I was thinking run the half cafe/BC on 448/449 and have the full cafe run out of NYP that way coach passengers have cafe service on both legs of the LSL.

Sure, either way.

 

[jaturner193]

I see your location is Ithaca, NY. If you're on spring break and coming from Syracuse...are you an Ithaca College student? I'm an IC alum (Park School) myself.

To answer your questions if you haven't departed yet, 49 vs 449 makes no difference. Likewise, 48 vs. 448 doesn't matter unless you're headed east of Albany. In that case, you'll definitely be in the 448 cars.

Westbound, usually Chicago-bound passengers occupy the last car. If it's not full, they'll likely have you seated in that car. Eastbound, Syracuse-bound passengers are usually in the 448 cars. You don't need to worry about engine/horn noise; the furthest coach car forward is the fifth car in the consist (engine, engine, Boston sleeper, cafe car, first 448 coach).

Around spring break, the trains will probably be sold out, especially on a Friday night.

Cool, sounds good! I am currently in college but at Cornell and not IC. I think at this point the train is basically sold out even overnight with people getting on in Depew and Cleveland.

 

[Brian Battuello]

I totally agree about having a cafe car for both sections, but the lack of a cafe on the NYC leg worked to my advantage a long time ago. Anybody else remember the wine and cheese reception when leaving Chicago? I happened to be on a CHI-NYC LSL, and went looking for cafe service south of Albany. I wandered into the not-in-use diner and asked if it was possible to buy a glass of wine. They said that there was no food/beverage service available south of Albany, but they gave me an entire free bottle of wine left over from the reception to take back to my room. I guess they were in a good mood!

 

[fdaley]

It would be nice to have cafe service on both branches, but there is a real question as to whether you could staff it and not take a beating cost wise. You are talking about adding an additional LSA, since the current ones have their own responsibilities and inventories to manage.

It would really just be restoring the level of service that the train had for most of its existence under Amtrak. The diner-only food service on the New York leg is a comparatively recent cutback.

When I was riding it nearly every week back in the late '80s, and into the first half of the '90s, the Lake Shore regularly had a full lounge that ran through to/from Boston plus a lounge and a local coach (sometimes two in the GCT days) that originated at New York and were removed at Albany. In later years I can recall 48 running with a through lounge car for New York, next to the diner, that was staffed only from ALB to NYP, while the Boston lounge was staffed throughout the trip.

Of course, before about 2007, Amtrak had cafe service on all of the Albany-based trains, so the Lake Shore's New York lounge could probably be staffed out of that pool.

 

[PVD]

The Lake is different than the other NY to Abany trains that no longer have a cafe. Those are subsidized by NY State, and they decide whether to operate the cafe or not. Sadly, that pool of workers and the ability to service/stock the car no longer exist. If NY brought back that service, it might be easier to facilitate.

 

[zephyr17]

The Lake is different than the other NY to Abany trains that no longer have a cafe. Those are subsidized by NY State, and they decide whether to operate the cafe or not. Sadly, that pool of workers and the ability to service/stock the car no longer exist. If NY brought back that service, it might be easier to facilitate.

Are the Niagara Falls trains and the Maple Leaf commissaried in Niagara Falls. Are no NEC trains originating in New York commissaried at Sunnyside?

I find it a bit difficult to believe Sunnyside has no commissary capabilities.

Yes, they may have to increase staff to provide LSA services on one more train. But that is a minor issue in the larger picture. Creating commissary services where there are none is a bigger hill to climb. But, again, Sunnyside completely lacking commissary capabilities is dumbfounding to me, if true (again, a premise I seriously doubt).

If Sunnyside has commissary facilities, it is little more than ordering additional supplies from Aramark.

 

[PVD]

Because he referenced Albany runs, I was talking about Alb/Rens not Sunnyside which of course has a major op.
The trains that continue on are handled in Sunnyside, and I believe Niagara Falls. If you stock the train in Sunnyside what happens to the food when it gets to Albany. If you are paying someone all the way to Chiacgo and back I don't see how it is economically feasible. Right now there is no way to stock the return trip except in Chicago, which means paying that person all the way. I would be happy to see service NY to Albany on the Empire Service short runs, as well as the Lake, but unless NY makes a move on the Empire Service, I don't see how it works on the Lake.

 

[Mailliw]

Isn't NYS moving towards having food service on all Empire Service trains wether they do past Albany or not? The Airo trainsets will all have full cafe cars in addition to full BC cars.

 

[PVD]

I hope so, it has been talked about for years. Right now, they use the split cars on all the sets, they just don't staff them on the NY-Alb only runs. It is easy to get food in NYC or Albany for the trip, but everyone in between is not so lucky.

 

[Skyline]

a few weeks ago I had 4812 and it was a Viewliner 2 and 4811 and the Boston section was a Viewliner 1. It was my first time in the newer car. One unexpected issue for me in the lower bunk was the fixed bracket that sticks out from the wall with the cupholders seemed to me to be somewhat wider than the Viewliner 1's and protrude too much toward the mattress where I kept bumping into it and disturbing my sleep. Not sure why that couldn't be made to fold away or be a little narrower. But depending on your own body you may not even notice it. Other than that, it was nice to ride in a newer car. I actually would rather have the newer config restroom down the hall although I know some will always prefer the old style in room restroom

I've always found having the toilet right there in the roomette to be kind of gross, and sometimes the source of odors, also worse if it malfunctions. Even if I'm solo. Totally unacceptable if there are two of us.

 

[Skyline]

Thanks. The 449 bus I took is timed perfectly for no traffic, but I imagine the 448 bus would be stuck in rush hour traffic entering the city.

I'm sure this is a non-starter, but if the LSL could leave Chicago one hour earlier, it feels like a 7:30 arrival time into Boston would be a bit more competitive, and padding for those delays.

Whenever I view the webcam at Elkhart, there is just one coach and one sleeper designated 448 or 449. Plus a cafe car. That's it between Boston and Albany. Is there that low of a ridership demand? Seems a waste of resources, and adds time to the overall trip due to the time spent in Albany switching.

Would not a coach-only service (with one of the coaches being a hybrid coach/cafe) be sufficient and also a better idea. Boston sleeper pax could switch to or from a sleeper west of Albany.