Lake Shore Limited discussion

[Kramerica]

Anyone have any idea how long this bustitution will last? My family is scheduled on 448 on 8/19. This is our first family Amtrak trip. (MKE-BOS-NYC-MKE) Would be a huge letdown to be on a bus for half a day. We would have picked a different destination.

 

[Rasputin]

Anyone have any idea how long this bustitution will last? My family is scheduled on 448 on 8/19. This is our first family Amtrak trip. (MKE-BOS-NYC-MKE) Would be a huge letdown to be on a bus for half a day. We would have picked a different destination.

I do not see any information on the Amtrak website about how long the extension of the CSX track work (and its resultant 448/449 bustitutions) will last. The service alert for the initial track work has been taken down and a new service alert has not been posted. Posting timely and accurate notices of cancellations/bustitutions of 448 and 449 has not been one of Amtrak's strong points. Maybe someone in the group has more information but otherwise we are in the dark.

I hope that your trip goes well and you will not endure an Albany - Boston bustitution. However I see that your itinerary involves visiting Boston and New York. If you wanted to be extra cautious, I would suggest that you modify the first leg of your trip to travel MKE-NYC and then take a New York to Boston regional or Acela to reach Boston and avoid the Boston section of the Lake Shore.

 

[bratkinson]

Apparently, Amtraks' web site fails to show any alerts for 448/449 after the trackwork supposed to be completed this past Thursday. Aparently, the left hand doesn't know WHEN it will be completed as last Thursdays' end date was actually an extension from the previous week, if I recall correctly.

BUT...just for kicks, I went to Amtrak.com and found that 448 is bused Monday and Tuesday. I didn't look any further. So, if things go this week like the previous week, #449 from BOS runs today, but no #448 to BOS today through Thursday, inclusive. However, I'm guessing that it's one day at a time. Maybe they ran a day or two longer than expected and only need a couple more days. In my best 'Dirty Harry' imitation: "Do you feel lucky?" (at least for this week)

 

[haroldo]

As I believe another traveler found out, 448 is bused on Aug 2 (Aug 1 - Aug 4, it turns out). but according to the online booking software it's back up and running on Aug 9.

 

[B&Ofan]

I'm traveling on 449 pm Aug 16 I hope things are cleared up by then.

 

[user 14106]

Anyone have any idea how long this bustitution will last? My family is scheduled on 448 on 8/19. This is our first family Amtrak trip. (MKE-BOS-NYC-MKE) Would be a huge letdown to be on a bus for half a day. We would have picked a different destination.

If you are leaving on Friday you should have no problem. CSX is not doing any weekend work.

 

[Kramerica]

If you are leaving on Friday you should have no problem. CSX is not doing any weekend work.

We leave Chicago on Thursday and arrive in Boston Friday night. Do they work on Friday evenings?

 

[fdaley]

The Boston Lake Shore has been running eastbound from Albany on Fridays and Saturdays (so Thursday & Friday departures from Chicago) throughout the work period. Westbound 449 has been running out of Boston on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays.

It's been pretty more or less the same pattern -- with bustitution on most days for much of June and July -- every summer for most of the past decade. Makes that train very hard to use at this time of year.

 

[Brian Battuello]

Don't have time for a detailed reply, but the LSL has been messed up by a near-collapsed building near Albany. You might want to look at other threads for more information. No idea at all how long it will take to resolve.

 

[n3rdg1rl]

I just hope this all gets cleared up by October. My husband is taking his first Amtrak trip with me (CLE - BOS) and all I need is there to be massive changes, so he'll never ride with me again.

 

[rs9]

Previously, I've only taken the Lake Shore Limited in business class. In a few weeks I'll be trying out coach for the first time. I am aware that on 48 out of Chicago, passengers are boarded into particular cars based on their destination - generally the last coach car is NYP passengers, for example.

I'll be on 49 from NYP-CHI. Given that two separate trains are combining at Albany (449 and 49), are coach passengers "redistributed" at Albany? One of the reasons I ask is that looking at load factors after Albany, the 449 section of the train is often at higher occupancy than the 49 section. As I'm traveling on a Sunday, I've been monitoring Sunday loads. This past weekend (10/16), after Rochester, 449 was still listed as 90% full, while 49 was down to 70% full.

I guess what I'm wondering is - after Albany, can passengers relocate in coach?

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

If your going to Chicago the general plan is to keep the longs distance passenger in one coach. This way the conductor does not have to hunt for passenger. It also provides a quiet place for people to sleep. This of course does not work out perfectly, but it’s the plan.

Can you switch, not really. You can ask about relocating to a less full coach, but it’s a not likely unless your in a coach designated for shorts. Your conductor stuff people in cars by final destination, and the attendant does not normally have a manifest available.

On the Lake Shore limited on a Sunday going west. You find the coach are pretty fill with college students. The packed coaches will empty out before Buffalo, and it will be quite empty going across Ohio in the morning. The LSL is the last train across NY, so it’s quite busy.

 

[rs9]

If your going to Chicago the general plan is to keep the longs distance passenger in one coach. This way the conductor does not have to hunt for passenger. It also provides a quiet place for people to sleep. This of course does not work out perfectly, but it’s the plan.

Can you switch, not really. You can ask about relocating to a less full coach, but it’s a not likely unless your in a coach designated for shorts. Your conductor stuff people in cars by final destination, and the attendant does not normally have a manifest available.

On the Lake Shore limited on a Sunday going west. You find the coach are pretty fill with college students. The pack coaches will empty out before Buffalo, and it will be quite empty going across Ohio in the morning. The LSL is the last train across NY, so it’s quite busy.

Thanks, I've noticed from the ridership trends the train seems to be always sold out from NYP but by Buffalo, it's down to the 60-70% range. Frankly, it feels like an ideal situation as a solo traveler.

I guess I'm curious of the ridership patterns of 449 and why it seems to be more packed than 49 after western NY.

 

[jis]

Thanks, I've noticed from the ridership trends the train seems to be always sold out from NYP but by Buffalo, it's down to the 60-70% range. Frankly, it feels like an ideal situation as a solo traveler.

I guess I'm curious of the ridership patterns of 449 and why it seems to be more packed than 49 after western NY.

49 is in effect the last Empire Service train out of NY, so it is used a lot by upstate people to get home, and there isn’t enough ridership out of upstate NY to CHI to fill those seats vacated by the Empire Service type users of 49. 449 does not have that sort of ridership from Boston to upstate NY.

 

[BlackDiamond]

I'm wondering what happened to 448 last night. I was part of a party of 4 that had reservations to eat dinner at the Steaming Tender located in Palmer MA where the CSX Boston Line crosses the New England Central. We got there around 6:10 and 448 was showing an on time departure from SPG at 6:04 pm so we waited to see it. By 6:30 our reservation time it had not gone by so we went inside. When I checked the status it now showed over 1 hour late. Did it lose time at Springfield for some reason? I wonder what happened to it. It did finally pass about an hour later.

By the way the Steaming Tender is an excellent place to eat and in the summer you can sit outside and watch trains go by.

 

[rs9]

If there were no freight train interference on the Albany-Boston section of the LSL, what should the travel times look like for that stretch?

 

[daybeers]

CSX has always been a problem at the interchange in Springfield for the LSL, Vermonter, and Valley Flyer trains between Greenfield, MA and New Haven, CT. The Vermonter has been very late the past few weeks as well, though I'm not sure that's due to CSX.

 

[user 14106]

CSX has always been a problem at the interchange in Springfield for the LSL, Vermonter, and Valley Flyer trains between Greenfield, MA and New Haven, CT. The Vermonter has been very late the past few weeks as well, though I'm not sure that's due to CSX.

They usually get the LSL through but that’s sometimes the problem with the Vermonter. If the southbound Vermonter is running late approaching the Springfield diamond and 449 is on time sometimes it will get stuck waiting for 449. And 449 generally goes first before the northbound Vermonter but that’s standard operating procedure.

 

[Rasputin]

I have found that the problem with delays to 448 is sometimes the MBTA and being held in the yard at Worcester while the MBTA train crews take their break at Worcester and tie up the line, at least that is how it has seemed to be to me. It seems to be civil war era railroading at its best.

But my most recent trip on 448 was in 2019 when it was a bus. Given my poor experiences with that train, I don't know if I will ever take 448 again. I now prefer to fly home. I don't mind 449 as it seems to be run fairly well and I enjoy the scenery. For now, it is 449 going west, any airline returning east. I wish it were otherwise.

 

[fdaley]

I have been on 448 when it left Albany on time and arrived at South Station more than 30 minutes early, so I know it's possible for it to cover the line in about 4 hours and 30 minutes or maybe even a bit less (4:20?) if everything goes smoothly. It seems to perform better on weekends than weekdays -- maybe fewer freights and definitely fewer commuter trains. On bad days I've also seen it take 7 hours to cover the run.

Agree with Rasputin that 449 is the better, more reliable run. The problem with 448 is that its scheduled arrival time into Boston is already rather late, and if the Lake Shore is delayed before it even gets to Albany, things can really go awry. Our last two trips on 448, it arrived at BOS at 1 a.m. and 1:45 a.m. On one trip this summer, we booked an Empire train ALB-NYP and then the Acela to BOS, which combined took 6 hours 45 minutes including transfer time (arriving 5m early), rather than taking our chances with 448. Took 449 home.

 

[user 14106]

48/448 has been pretty good as of late.

 

[user 14106]

48/448 has been pretty good as of late.

Looking back over the last two weeks 448 has been within 20 minutes of schedule into BOS every day but one and most of those days it was within 10 minutes of schedule - and on that day it was due to issues further west of Albany. That’s not too bad for an Amtrak LDT.

 

[rs9]

Going back to May 1, the average delay for 448 into Boston is 30 minutes, not ideal but not catastrophic.

I am curious though - I've done the bustitution for 449, which took about 2.5 hours BOS-ALB. We went non-stop, and my understanding is the Mass Pike is much more of a straight line than the rail route BOS-ALB. How much more competitive can the time realistically become from its 4.5-5 hour block?

 

[user 14106]

Going back to May 1, the average delay for 448 into Boston is 30 minutes, not ideal but not catastrophic.

I am curious though - I've done the bustitution for 449, which took about 2.5 hours BOS-ALB. We went non-stop, and my understanding is the Mass Pike is much more of a straight line than the rail route BOS-ALB. How much more competitive can the time realistically become from its 4.5-5 hour block?

It could be better than it is - it’s not going to beat the 2.5 hours travel time direct from BOS-ALB non stop during ideal traffic conditions as it has to make the scheduled stops. The mass pike bypasses essentially all of the other cities that have stops except Framingham which has a direct exit. In addition to having to hit Worcester Springfield and Pittsfield the route between Pittsfield and Albany - Rensellear is quite indirect.

 

[rs9]

It could be better than it is - it’s not going to beat the 2.5 hours travel time direct from BOS-ALB non stop during ideal traffic conditions as it has to make the scheduled stops. The mass pike bypasses essentially all of the other cities that have stops except Framingham which has a direct exit. In addition to having to hit Worcester Springfield and Pittsfield the route between Pittsfield and Albany - Rensellear is quite indirect.

Thanks. The 449 bus I took is timed perfectly for no traffic, but I imagine the 448 bus would be stuck in rush hour traffic entering the city.

I'm sure this is a non-starter, but if the LSL could leave Chicago one hour earlier, it feels like a 7:30 arrival time into Boston would be a bit more competitive, and padding for those delays.