lake shore or 3 rivers

[sutton8596]

Hi guys,

i'll have a chance this summer to ride either LS or 3 R from ny to chi. I've noted the times and that's not a consideration. Why one is just a nicer train? Scenery?

Thanks

 

[tubaallen]

To my knowledge, the LSL is just a more standard LD train. It will have a full diner, which I don't think Three Rivers will. I think Three Rivers just has a lounge. Also, as far as the route is concerned, I'm not sure which one would have better scenery. I would be tempted to think that the Three Rivers would have a more beautiful route, but I suppose you want to take the schedule in mind too. Hope that was of some help to you.

 

[AlanB]

I'd say that Tubaallen summed that up pretty nicely.

The Lake Shore does indeed run with a full diner, while the 3R's does not. The 3R's only carries a cafe car. Both trains run with Viewliner sleepers.

Scenery wise, its kind of a tossup. The 3R's run through the famous Horseshoe Curve in Pennsylvania, which is quite a site to see. On the other hand the LSL does have some very nice scenery as it runs across NY from Buffalo to Albany. Even nicer than that is the wonderful views of the Palisades, Bear Mountain, and West Point as the LSL runs right down the edge of the Hudson River from Albany to Penn Station.

Now one note, since you say that you are running from NY to Chicago. Depending on just what summer month you are traveling, it could be borderline time wise for you to see Horseshoe Curve on the 3R's. During the month of August, especially if the train runs late, you will arrive at the curve after dark.

Finally if you plan to travel in a sleeper, consider the fact that while your meals are free on both trains, on the 3R's you only get cafe food. On the LSL you will get a full meal in the dining car. Yet the cost for both trains will be about the same.

 

[sutton8596]

Thanks for the info guys. As always, Alan, very thorough!

I think I'll opt for LSL.

Scott

 

[AlanB]

Scott,

By the way if you are traveling in a sleeper, let me know and I'll give you directions to the Club Acela Lounge in New York's Penn station. Club Acela is the equivalent to the Metropolitan Lounge in Chicago. However since it's been recently refurbished, it's in much better shape than Chicago.

Chicago.

 

[Morris&Essex]

Every June I must go to Chicago for my company. I usually take the 3Rs westbound and LSL eastbound because those times work(ed) for me. This year I decided to go LSL round trip, but accommodations westbound are already sold out (for a weekday in late June). How far in advance do the sleepers sell out on LSL? I assumed a good 3 months in advance was plenty of time.

A couple of thoughts comparing the two trains. For whatever reason, I always seem to meet more interesting people (occupation-wise) on LSL than 3Rs. Maybe it's the diner. As for 3Rs, I find it more reliable on-time wise, but my last trip on it, the cafe was sold out of its sandwiches/microwave food and most snacks shortly west of Harrisburg. Can you imagine bringing kids on that train for that long a ride with a snack bar without snacks? :angry:

Not to dwell on the negative, though. The scenery is equally nice on both, and Sutton made a good choice.

 

[AlanB]

This year I decided to go LSL round trip, but accommodations westbound are already sold out (for a weekday in late June). How far in advance do the sleepers sell out on LSL? I assumed a good 3 months in advance was plenty of time.

EL,

There really is no way to predict when a sleeper may sell out. Weekends of course go first, usually followed by Mondays and Fridays, which bracket the weekend. Trains also sell out faster during the summer and holiday weeks.

After that it's simply a tossup as to when any given train might sell out it's sleepers. The 25% off sales have also helped to increase ticket sales, so that may be having some effect too.

As for 3Rs, I find it more reliable on-time wise, but my last trip on it, the cafe was sold out of its sandwiches/microwave food and most snacks shortly west of Harrisburg. Can you imagine bringing kids on that train for that long a ride with a snack bar without snacks?   :angry:

Sounds like someone screwed up at Pittsburgh. Either the attendant didn't call in his needs before arrival at Pitt, or commissary services screwed up.

 

[battalion51]

Alan, the lounge car does his stocking once and only once, his/her departure point. They do their best to decide how much they want of each thing, extras, what sells what doesn't etc. There have been trips when a good LSA friend of mine has three cases of beer left, and some where he's out by Jacksonville. It all depnds on the LSA and what the people want.

 

[Amfleet]

So the LSA decides how much food to load?

 

[battalion51]

Well there is a standard stock list, but he/she can decide to drop/add items based on the load of the train, and trends they notice in sales of certain items. For example, pizzas usually sell well, while the small hamburgers do not. Or, Bud sells well, while Heineken does not. It just all depends.

 

[Amfleet]

I'm guessing some of the lazy LSA's out there will bring on a light load so:

1. They can sells out there food and go hide somewhere the rest of the trip.

2. Not have to take the time to do invetory at the end of the trip.

However I have not run into this probelm yet. On the Silver Meteor the Lounge was overflowing with food out of West Palm and she always seemed to have what you wanted right up to Philadelphia when she closed up.

 

[battalion51]

It's not uncommon for occurances like that to occur, especially during the low months. But with my buddy it seems like every 10 minutes he's telling me to put coffee stirers over another item that he's run out of.

 

[AlanB]

Alan, the lounge car does his stocking once and only once, his/her departure point. They do their best to decide how much they want of each thing, extras, what sells what doesn't etc. There have been trips when a good LSA friend of mine has three cases of beer left, and some where he's out by Jacksonville. It all depnds on the LSA and what the people want.

Battalion,

I'm sorry, but that's simply not true. I've been on several trains, including the Three Rivers at Pittsburgh, and watched them re-supply the cafe car enroute. Additionally when I rode the Twilight Shoreliner last April from New Port News, the lounge attendant closed the car just prior to Richmond so he could take inventory.

He then dropped off his needs list at the station in Richmond so that they could alert the DC commissary. This way they had the supplies he needed ready for the trains arrival into DC. When the train pulled into DC, I was getting off. As I walked by the lounge car, they were already loading his order into the car.

Plus back in February I was in Albany with Superliner Diner, to check out the new station there. I watched them restock the lounge on 49 while we were there. I could even hear the stationmaster checking with all the various departments if they were ready to go, including commissary, on my scanner.

Additionally, I simply don't think that it's possible to load enough food into a Sightseer Lounge for a two day trip from Chicago to the West Coast. Even worse would be the Sunset Limited, which would need a three day supply of food.

While they can't stock up at any station they like, there are commissaries at the larger stations and they do restock when they hit those stations. Unless of course the attendant is too lazy to do his job and make up the order before he gets to a station with a commissary.

 

[tubaallen]

Alan,

Believe it or not, that IS how they try to make it work! I learned all about it over the summer. For instance, on the CZ, they used to have commissaries along the way in Denver and SLC, I believe. However, now, they just try to load enough on in CHI to make it to EMY (determined by the standard order). Crazy, I know.

On the other hand, you're probably right that they have loaded items on en-route, because depending on the PLS (product line supervisor...formerly chief) they may order ahead from a station. Sometimes it just means the station attendant running to the store for sodas or something. My PLS in Colorado last summer did that a couple times for me in Grand Junction when I was working sleepers.

Allen

 

[AlanB]

Alan,    Believe it or not, that IS how they try to make it work!  I learned all about it over the summer.  For instance, on the CZ, they used to have commissaries along the way in Denver and SLC, I believe.  However, now, they just try to load enough on in CHI to make it to EMY (determined by the standard order).  Crazy, I know.

    On the other hand, you're probably right that they have loaded items on en-route, because depending on the PLS (product line supervisor...formerly chief) they may order ahead from a station.  Sometimes it just means the station attendant running to the store for sodas or something.  My PLS in Colorado last summer did that a couple times for me in Grand Junction when I was working sleepers.

Allen

Tubaallen,

Based upon what you're saying, I would guess that Amtrak is trying to load up only once, due more to cost cutting measures more than anything. It sounds to me like Amtrak is trying to cut costs, by shutting down commissaries that only serve one train route, like Denver.

However as I noted in my updated post, I just watched the Lake Shore (49) being restocked in Albany less than a month ago. Also, I think that I recall seeing the lounge on the Meteor being restocked in DC when I rode it this past December.

Therefore I have to conclude that at stations were there are multiple trains daily, that Amtrak has not and cannot eliminate their commissaries. Places like DC, Albany, New Orleans, Pittsburgh, NY, and such. In fact I'd bet that the Sunset does restock in NOL, if for no other reason than that is also a crew change point, so the new attendant would want to restock.

So I have to conclude that while Amtrak may be trying to cut down on the numbers of commissaries and their cost, that they can and do restock the LD lounge cars whenever they can, even if they've cut down on the number of restocking places.

However a blanket statement saying that they never restock in route is simply incorrect. Not to mention inconsistant with my observations.

 

[PRR 60]

It is my understanding that Amtrak commissary service is contracted to Gate Gourmet (the airline caterer which acquired Dobbs International and its Amtrak contract in July of 1999). The restocking of an Amtrak train should be as simple as a phone call. Amtrak would call in the restock order, GG would load the needed supplies in a van from one of their many airport locations, and take them to the station for pick-up.

This flexibility, and the ability to capitalize on the economy of scale by piggy-backing on the larger, established airline catering service, should have been a prime reason for Amtrak to outsource the commissary services in the first place. Barring extremely unusual circumstances, an Amtrak train should never run out of routine food items.

 

[Morris&Essex]

Hi Everyone,

I just want to clarify that the poor food situation on my 3Rs trip was WB, shortly after Harrisburg. It arrived in Pittsburgh late in the evening and arrive in CHI either 8 or 9 am, so most everyone was sleeping from Pittsburgh on. So they probably don't load up much in Pittsburgh at all. I was mainly disappointed how the cafe was stocked from the start, and that it wasn't addressed at, say, 30th St since the train sold out.

 

[tubaallen]

It is my understanding that Amtrak commissary service is contracted to Gate Gourmet (the airline caterer which acquired Dobbs International and its Amtrak contract in July of 1999). The restocking of an Amtrak train should be as simple as a phone call. Amtrak would call in the restock order, GG would load the needed supplies in a van from one of their many airport locations, and take them to the station for pick-up.
This flexibility, and the ability to capitalize on the economy of scale by piggy-backing on the larger, established airline catering service, should have been a prime reason for Amtrak to outsource the commissary services in the first place. Barring extremely unusual circumstances, an Amtrak train should never run out of routine food items.

The fact that Gate Gourmet covers the commissaries is correct, however, I'm not sure it is as easy as you say it is to restock en-route.

 

[AlanB]

It is my understanding that Amtrak commissary service is contracted to Gate Gourmet (the airline caterer which acquired Dobbs International and its Amtrak contract in July of 1999).  The restocking of an Amtrak train should be as simple as a phone call.  Amtrak would call in the restock order, GG would load the needed supplies in a van from one of their many airport locations, and take them to the station for pick-up.  
This flexibility, and the ability to capitalize on the economy of scale by piggy-backing on the larger, established airline catering service, should have been a prime reason for Amtrak to outsource the commissary services in the first place.  Barring extremely unusual circumstances, an Amtrak train should never run out of routine food items.

The fact that Gate Gourmet covers the commissaries is correct, however, I'm not sure it is as easy as you say it is to restock en-route.

Actually, I would have to agree with PRR 60. While I wasn't aware that Gate was doing the supplying, it should be that simple. As long as Amtrak gives GG an hour and a half to two hours of warning, they ought to be able to put together some supplies for restocking.

Then at any major city, where the train will normally stop for a little longer and you have checked baggage along with golf carts, you should be able to quickly load the supplies on board.

Yes you might not end up with the sandwiches that are listed on the menu, but I'd rather have a non-standard sandwich than no sandwich.

The biggest reason that this wouldn't work would be Amtrak's reluctance to contract and/or pay the needed premium for this service. However IMHO, I think that the danger of having angry and hungry passengers is far more serious than spending a few extra dollars.

 

[tubaallen]

Alan: I have to agree completely with your thoughts. Unfortunately, it's been my experience as a passenger (fortunately not yet as an employee) that they do not do this very much. There have been several times I have rode where there is NO food left at the end. It was pretty bad. It seemed to be a worse problem on the CHI-WAS trains, Capitol and Cardinal. Oh well, I don't know. And you're right, I'm sure GG could supply food, but your point is exactly what I was thinking of...it probably wouldn't be standard Amtrak stock...but I suppose you're right, any sandwich is better than no sandwich, hehe.

 

[AlanB]

There have been several times I have rode where there is NO food left at the end. It was pretty bad. It seemed to be a worse problem on the CHI-WAS trains, Capitol and Cardinal.

Hopefully, between the funding that Amtrak did get for this year along with David Gunn's leadership, that's something that will be fixed.

There really is no excuse for running out of food. I can understand running out of a few items here and there, but there is no excuse for running out of everything.

 

[Jon]

I’ve ridden both the Lake Shore Limited and the Three Rivers and I would recommend the Lake Shore Limited for the scenery, I hope this helps.