Lakewood WA Sues to Stop Reroute

[The Davy Crockett]

According to this article, the city of Lakewood, Washington has sued the state of Washington to stop the reroute south of Tacoma, claiming the state's DOT review of the project was flawed.

A few quotes from the article:

The city contends that the state Department of Transportation’s environmental review of the project glossed over traffic and neighborhood effects on Lakewood and, specifically, its isolated Tillicum neighborhood, by using incorrect or insufficient information.

Yeah, its only incorrect because Lakewood wants more consessions (read $$$) from the state.

The lawsuit suggests the Tillicum neighborhood, where the city has made inroads of late to bolster its housing stock and revitalize its business corridor, has the most to lose from the project. The only ways to get and out of the neighborhood are from two I-5 exits, which would closed temporarily during the day to allow trains to pass.

Sniff, sniff... Do I smell NIMBYs? :wacko: You know those new Talgo consists are going to take FOREVER to pass through those crossings.

But Lakewood long has maintained that more is needed to safeguard the public from trains traveling up to 79 miles per hour through the community

Especially at 79 mph!


And the icing on the cake:

“The Tillicum neighborhood, which proudly serves the needs of our military service members and is home to one of the most socio-economically diverse populations in the state, will become even more isolated from the rest of the city because of this project,” city spokesman Jeff Brewster said.

That's right, when all else fails, wrap yourself in the flag and appeal to people's patriotism. hboy:

And a view from the other side...

Rerouting passenger trains away from the Puget Sound waterfront would decrease travel times through the Nisqually-Tacoma corridor by up to 10 minutes, improve rail safety and allow two more trains to run between Portland and Seattle each day, Transportation Department officials have said.

Yeah, it is NIMBYs I'm smelling. :angry2:

 

[jmbgeg]

Are you kidding me? Lakewood is a dump.

 

[jis]

They are wasting their money which could have been used for something more useful.

 

[Blackwolf]

Can't wait to read about a judge winding his pitch and throwing this one out to sea.

 

[the_traveler]

Besides the dumb NIMBY reason of "trains blocking the TWO I-5 exits (for trains passing thru at 79 MPH)", why are they not complaining about I-5 itself - where vehicles (on a good day) travel at that speed or higher!

And I bet Lakewood is going to reimburse the state for the $89 Million that the state is going to lose in federal funding! :wacko: If Lakewood is gladly giving that amount to the state, why doesn't Lakewood just build the overpasses they demand themselves? :blush: Or just pay WADOT that amount, if they don't want the work? :blush:

 

[DET63]

Looking at Google maps and road views of Tillicum, it appears there is already a track running through the area, though it appears to be lightly used. Neither crossing has gates, although both have signals. I would assume that upgrades would see both crossings equipped with gates or replaced by over- or underpasses. While the presence of an additional handful of trains a day would add some to the noise and congestion, the improvements to the crossing that would almost surely have to be made would have a net beneficial effect, IMHO.

Of course, if Lakewood is a dump (as jmbgeg asserts), any amount of money it can weasel out of the state or feds to "mitigate" suffering will probably be seen as gravy.

 

[EMDF9A]

Lakewood IS a dump. (It wasnt when I was a kid oh so many years ago) but honestly I would prefer the trains stay on the Point Defiance Route. Even if they could do it just for the CS, I would be OK with that... but as someone here pointed out a few months ago... you will have station issues. Ah well I guess I better get used to seeing the back of used car lots and pawn shops instead of the beautiful waters of Puget Sound.

 

[Guest]

The Lakewood Mayor and City Council are wasting their taxpayers' money. The lawsuit is frivolous.

The Pt. Defiance Bypass actually comes under a federal "categorical exemption" which was recently passed, and doesn't require environmental review at all. However, when the project started, the exemption wasn't in place. Out of an excess of caution, the FRA went through a full environmental impact statement, which concluded exactly what we all knew, that there's no significant impact.

Now the Lakewood NIMBYs have decided to sue. But they don't have a chance; every t was crossed and every i was dotted on this project. They are likely to have the case thrown out very quickly. The only question is how much taxpayer money they will waste appealing to higher and higher courts.

 

[Guest]

Looking at Google maps and road views of Tillicum, it appears there is already a track running through the area, though it appears to be lightly used. Neither crossing has gates, although both have signals. I would assume that upgrades would see both crossings equipped with gates

Correct. The "bypass" is along an *already existing track*. It will be upgraded to passenger speeds, double-tracked in a few sections, and all the crossings will have gates, lights, and flashers.

It's actually legal to run the passenger trains along this route right now. Improvements to the existing track are exempt from state law (under federal railroad law), and largely exempt from federal environmental law too. So from an environmental-impact POV, the project consists only of improving the crossings and a bit of double-tracking, which obviously have no adverse impacts. Lakewood doesn't have a leg to stand on with its frivolous lawsuit.

 

[D3]

I own a small bussiness in Tillicum(Lakewood) area and have seen first hand the effect of not have a public road , or walking/bike path between this small suburb and the city of Lakewood . People are forced to walk along the rail road tracks , or next to the freeway (both illegal and subjest to tickets) , ride a bike along the freeway , or take a bis which runs from 6:30 AM - 7:13 pm and less during the weekends . To add to Tillicum being isolated , there is no grocery store the few corner store are full of junk food creating a 'food desert' , which makes people commute several miles to the nearest grocery store . A simple bike and walking path would create a safe and healthy way for people to commute to work and access to healthier food . There is a 70 acre country club that can donate a one car lane sized strip of land to make this possible and reduce the risk of people being hit by trains .

 

[the_traveler]

I still don't see how the things you listed above have to do with not having Amtrak use those tracks. The railroad tracks are already there (or how else could you walk on them?) and are used by BNSF trains. Why not stop BNSF trains? :huh:

And as far as the grocery store, I doubt Amtrak will build a grocery store. So you'll still have to drive, bus or walk either way. And I-5 and BNSF tracks and trains will still be there!

 

[Nathanael]

It seems wise to campaign for a public sidewalk from Tillicum to Lakewood. Why hasn't your city government paid for that? That's the city government's responsibility. Instead Lakewood city government is wasting money on frivolous lawsuits.

 

[Karl1459]

It seems wise to campaign for a public sidewalk from Tillicum to Lakewood. Why hasn't your city government paid for that? That's the city government's responsibility. Instead Lakewood city government is wasting money on frivolous lawsuits.

"City government" paying = city taxpayers paying. As noted above Tillicum "is a dump" = low property value + low income = lack of ability to generate tax revenue. A prime example of poor infrastructure planning with excessive costs to correct the issues, plus the residents of the area are likey stressed due to the hidden costs of living in the area so are likely unwilling to commit to an investment that will take years to pay off and with only a subtle visibility.

Certainly a path/trail to civilization would be a good idea, and very important to Amtrak/Sounder to prevent casualties if there is already a significant tresspassing issue on the existing tracks. Another patch to investigate would be for Sounder to establish a Tillicum station, with the layover in Lakewood the additonal operation would likely be at little cost, yet have substancial positive impact to that neighborhood.

 

[SubwayNut]

I was just looking at the map of Tillicum on Google Maps and what about walking or biking down Country Club Circle, that seems to be a public road that isn't the tracks or I-5 and is quite near the freeway? The country club road is completely gated?

I'll be venturing down to Lakewood this April to finally ride the Sounder Extension (I'll be stuck taking the bus back to Seattle since there are no return trips) was there NIMBYism to this project that allowed the reroute to be considered?

 

[George Harris]

Most of Lakewood's troubles seem to be self-inflicted. Sounds more like a legal extortion attempt than anything else. As some have noted, the railroad is already there. To improve it could be done as a business decision by the railroad without having to talk to anybody. Sounds like a thorough enforcement of anti-tresspassing laws is in order. Since the Port Defiance route is a "water level" route it does make more sense as a freight route for "tonnage"trains rather than this up and down line, which probably has much to do with it being the current main line. Such stuff as container traffic and other more time-sensitive freight traffic may make this route desirble for some of this freight once upgraded.

I would suspect that our "Guest_D_3*) may be one of those opposed or one of the lawyers making some money off them.

Lack of grocery store sounds more like a local issue due to lack of demand or silliness in zoning requirements, hence is a problem to be solved locally and not by the taxpayers of the entire state and country.

 

[John Kerher (RehRek.com)]

My Home is only about 100 to 120 feet from where the new rail will be put in. It will be bigger than life in my back yard and louder than heck. My home is also situated on Clover Creek as well. Being a water front property it was expensive and part of the draw to purchase the property. I am not against progress but this train is going to greatly affect the value of my home. I expect a loss of $80 to $100 K of the purchase price. Not to mention that it will take longer to sell to someone that will be willing to put up with a high speed train.

This train runs near my Sister-In-Laws place in Oregon. The house was built after the train was there, so they bought it with that in mind, but the price was very good so they did it. My wife and I have stayed there, its startling when the train goes by and its VERY loud. I am not looking forward to it going by my house.

In the UK a high speed train, albeit much faster than this one, was being put in and the affected adjacent property owners were proactively compensated for their losses. Why isn't this being done for me and others that will be directly affected?

I think that home owners should be paid the market value of their homes, without consideration of the bypass, +10% to cover moving expenses and inconvenience. Then let the folks responsible for the Point Defiance Bypass deal with selling the properties. I don't feel like I should have to deal with it at all.

 

[John Kerher (RehRek.com)]

Looking at Google maps and road views of Tillicum, it appears there is already a track running through the area, though it appears to be lightly used. Neither crossing has gates, although both have signals. I would assume that upgrades would see both crossings equipped with gates

Correct. The "bypass" is along an *already existing track*. It will be upgraded to passenger speeds, double-tracked in a few sections, and all the crossings will have gates, lights, and flashers.

It's actually legal to run the passenger trains along this route right now. Improvements to the existing track are exempt from state law (under federal railroad law), and largely exempt from federal environmental law too. So from an environmental-impact POV, the project consists only of improving the crossings and a bit of double-tracking, which obviously have no adverse impacts. Lakewood doesn't have a leg to stand on with its frivolous lawsuit.

The already existing track is extremely rarely used. My property is only 50 feet from the track and I have lived here for 8 years. The current trains are so infrequent that I personally have seen and heard maybe 30 trains pass in that time. Frequency will increase to 7 or 10 trips a day with this bypass. So I think that means 14 to 20 trains going back and forth every day. When the trains start running I will see more trains in a 2 days than the entire 8 years I've lived here. The impact is VERY significant to those that live near the tracks and have to commute through those areas. Also, I've only been held up at the crossing 2 times by passing trains.

BTW, it may or may not be legal to run passenger trains now on the tracks, but I don't understand your point. The tracks are neglected, they could not run high speed trains on the ones that exist now, it would be dangerous. The trains that do run travel far less than 20 mph now, I've never seen one go through quickly. Also, the surface street crossings are not all ready for frequent trains either.

 

[seat38a]

My Home is only about 100 to 120 feet from where the new rail will be put in. It will be bigger than life in my back yard and louder than heck. My home is also situated on Clover Creek as well. Being a water front property it was expensive and part of the draw to purchase the property. I am not against progress but this train is going to greatly affect the value of my home. I expect a loss of $80 to $100 K of the purchase price. Not to mention that it will take longer to sell to someone that will be willing to put up with a high speed train.

This train runs near my Sister-In-Laws place in Oregon. The house was built after the train was there, so they bought it with that in mind, but the price was very good so they did it. My wife and I have stayed there, its startling when the train goes by and its VERY loud. I am not looking forward to it going by my house.

In the UK a high speed train, albeit much faster than this one, was being put in and the affected adjacent property owners were proactively compensated for their losses. Why isn't this being done for me and others that will be directly affected?

I think that home owners should be paid the market value of their homes, without consideration of the bypass, +10% to cover moving expenses and inconvenience. Then let the folks responsible for the Point Defiance Bypass deal with selling the properties. I don't feel like I should have to deal with it at all.

Why would you buy a house near the tracks and then complain? Sure, it may have been infrequently used, but the rails were there first and if BNSF or the owners decided to use it 50 more times a day well your SOL. Now this goes out to all the people who buy a fu*&^*g house near the airport and railroad, NOISE WILL BE AN ISSUE!!!!!! God this is just as bad as the other post about the guy bitching that his land lord didn't disclose that Jack London Square has train horns in the morning.

Yes lets have other tax payers in your state bail you out and buy your home for your bad decisions.

 

[jis]

Moral of the story, do not buy property next to active railroads, even if they are infrequently used. It is lame to try to say that someone else cannot use their property for the purpose that they have owned it, much longer than you, because you made a mistake in your property transaction. Just IMHO of course!

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[Bob Dylan]

NIMBYs are Everywhere, especially when it comes to those who buy houses for a steal or even watch them rocket in value and all of a sudden trains, or traffic starts coming by their property or airplanes fly over their house!

Same thing when Lame Brains buy waterfront property or earthquake prone houses and then whine that " the Government" should bail them out when mother nature does her thing! Guess they haven't heard about Insurance!!

Racists and bigots did the same thing when civil rights laws allowed "them" to move into their neighborhood!

Get over yourself or else sell your place and move to the country or to a gated prison, er community so you'll be safe!

"Property values" is the new buzz slogan for elitists,racists and haters!!

 

[seat38a]

Down here in Los Angeles area, ironically property near public transit IE rail, are much more expensive than the suburbs. The new Santa Fe Lofts built right next to the rail yards near LAUS rents for some crazy amount of money a month. No discount for being near the rail at all. Also, in the OC where I am, apartments near train stations cost A LOT more than ones far away from public transit. BTW, being near the station is one of their selling points they use.

Also, how times have changed, communities now fight for Metro Rail projects to come through their communities. Even the Purple Line extension to the West Side was fought among the communities to have it come through their communities.

People are moving closer to rail in Socal and further and prices are property and rent values are reflecting that.

 

[Eric S]

If BNSF decided to upgrade this line and run far more freight trains on it, it would just happen without much discussion, right? It's only because Amtrak/Sound Transit is involved that there is significant public discussion, right?

I would imagine that a dozen(ish) relatively fast moving, relatively short passenger trains would be less disruptive than a similar number of relatively slow moving, relatively long freight trains.

 

[neroden]

My Home is only about 100 to 120 feet from where the new rail will be put in. It will be bigger than life in my back yard and louder than heck.

Get a clue. There are already some freight trains in your back yard. The upgrades to the track will make the trains *quieter*. There will be no new freight trains. The new trains will be quieter passenger trains, not loud freight trains.

My home is also situated on Clover Creek as well. Being a water front property it was expensive and part of the draw to purchase the property. I am not against progress but this train is going to greatly affect the value of my home. I expect a loss of $80 to $100 K of the purchase price.

You're wrong. The value will go up. Houses near passenger rail stations (which yours will be) are more valuable than those which aren't.

This train runs near my Sister-In-Laws place in Oregon.

You're thinking of a different train. The tracks in Oregon are owned by a freight railroad, have lots of heavy, loud freight trains and are maintained to lower standards; they have NOT been upgraded.

I don't feel like I should have to deal with it at all.

You didn't need to buy a house next to existing tracks. Tracks which you knew about when you bought the house. You should have known better. Since you knew there were tracks near you, you could have asked the state government about them; the Pt. Defiance Bypass improvements have been planned since roughly 1990. I suppose it's possible you've been living there longer than that, but based on your ignorance I doubt it.
The homeowners in the UK who are being compensated are having a *brand new* rail line built, across fields and through forests, and often *through* their houses. That's completely different.

 

[neroden]

The already existing track is extremely rarely used. My property is only 50 feet from the track and I have lived here for 8 years.

So suck it up and deal. The tracks were there when you bought the house. They can be upgraded at any time without warning; they can have more trains run on them at any time without warning; that's been the law on railroads for over 100 years.

Beyond that, the plans for the Pt. Defiance Bypass were already published by the state government when you bought your house. They were readily available online. You could have found them by Googling "rail" and "Lakewood", for God's sake.

You didn't bother to look up the information available online about the tracks. You didn't do your due diligence when buying your house. Suck it up and deal with your own failure. It's not our problem that you didn't bother to check on the plans for the railroad, and it's not the state's problem. You never get compensation for things which were disclosed before you bought your house -- and this was. It's entirely your problem that you didn't bother to do your due diligence before making an offer on a house; that's just your own incompetence.

 

[Steve4031]

Nimbys are a main cause of this country failing. That smell. Reminds me of something you flush. They need to quit holding the country back. They need to stop being so self centered.