LD trains-Assign Seats at Reservation Time

[Rex]

I frequently use the Northeast Regional service, where seats are not assigned and everyone is free for all. As a result, I was suprised on my first few trips on trains outside the corridor (Adirondack, Capitol Ltd, Empire Builder, Tx Eagle) that coach seats were assigned. Now, of course, I underdand the rationale and the need for this practice on the long distance service.

I am wondering however if it would be better (or even possible) to assign seats at reservation time -- akin to what most airlines currently do. So, say you book a trip on the Capitol Ltd from DC to PGH. One step in the reservation process would allow you to choose your seat (or seats if there are multiple passengers on the reservation). Then, when you get your ticket, your car and seat number are printed right on the ticket. The system, in turn, makes sure that local passengers are in the local car, and that thru passengers are in thier designated car.

Personally I can think of a number of reasons why I like this better than the current system of getting your seat assigned by the car attendent.

I might go even further to recommend this on the northeast corridor trains as well. This would be one way to thwart the squatters who attempt to block the seat next to them with thier luggage. Not sure it's practical though.

What's your opinion? Do you like the idea of being able to reserve your coach seat on a LD train when you book your ticket? Do you think it's possible? What could be the drawbacks?

 

[AmtrakFan]

It would hurt, because there are morethen one Equipment Configurations, so if a car is substuted there would be more problems.

 

[Guest]

Acela was set up for this, but it never got implemented.

 

[AlanB]

Acela was set up for this, but it never got implemented.

Actually that statement isn't quite true. It's true that it never got implemented for the Business Class section of the train, but for a period of about 6 months one could indeed choose one's seat in First Class. There was even a neat little diagram that showed you what seats were available and which way they faced, much like many airlines have when picking seats.

For various reasons, the concept was dropped from First Class before it was ever implemented in Business Class.

 

[Sam Damon]

This is one of the way Amtrak does things which can drive me nuts. My problem is, of course, I've seen how DB in Germany does things, and did so over a period of several years.

On DB, reservations are optional. You can, if you like, walk up to the station on the day of departure, and obtain a reasonably priced ticket. Furthermore, there's no officious twit lining you up at some silly gate to board the train; the Germans expect you to be smart enough to look at the signs on the platforms indicating where the 1st and 2d class cars will be spotted on the platform. You're also expected to be smart enough to read the Solari boards on the platform clock to see where the train's headed.

When the train gets there, if it's an IC train (or better, I suppose these days), the train will leave in three minutes. People get on, people get off, no fuss, no muss. At the time I was there, there wasn't an equivalent of the ADA, which might have had something to do with it. I haven't been across the pond in some years, so I don't know how things are now. I can tell you DB did not screw around as far as train departures were concerned. It always seems that, when I take Amtrak, there's a certain futz factor, where someone is screwing around with some thing at departure time.

Amtrak never seemed to assign seats on my rides during the 1980s. I also was getting on at a small station outside of Pittsburgh, and I suspect that had something to do with it. The seat assignment bit seems to be a recent thing, and happening only at major cities -- not at the smaller stations in between.

But the boarding process at Chicago Union Station has struck me as loony tunes. One of these days, I will work up enough vitriol to write about it.

 

[AmtrakCrescent20]

In my opinion, assigning seats would be one of the best improvements to coach service. That way, you would be guranteeed, if you book early, to get the seat(s) you want. As for the equipment substitution, at least on LD trains, there isn't much variation. On single level LD's, there are almost always only Amfleet II coaches, except for deadhead moves, in which case those cars aren't used. On the western LD's, you only have Superliner coaches. I'm not sure if the seating plan varies on Superliner I/IIs. As for a single level train operating with Superlienr sor vice versa, that's even more rare than an airline switching aircraft types.

And I would love Amtrak to have "open boarding" and let you wander out to the train whenever you want but that's not going to happen in places such as CUS unless there's a major mindset change.

 

[AKA]

I think it would be better for family groups. The one person two seats thing gets out of hand sometimes. The crew seems to look the other way to offen. I dont want my grand kids split up into two different seats with strangers, in two different parts of the car. About two years ago in Pittsburg after being bussed a mother was in tears because her 7 year old son was split form her and made to sit with a man unknown to her { A compleat stranger} Intervention from the pax in the car stoped this madness after about 15 mins. The woman was foreign and english not her frist language. She simply could not understand why she could not sit with her son. Crew was useless. Not wanting to be politicaly incorrect by asking someone to change seats? The pax worked it out. Thanks to some pax with some compassion and brains.

 

[yarrow]

if you could pick your seat like on a plane i would be in favor.

 

[The Metropolitan]

Robert has previously given me enough reason to oppose assigned/chosen seats in LD coach, that being that trains will artificially sell out faster, leading to SOLD OUT conditions where none actually exist.

To Illustrate, lets simplify things and say that a train has only 3 seats. Lets use the LSL as our example.

Person one comes along and books a ticket in Seat #1 from New York to Syracuse.

Then person two goes and decides to buy a ticket in Seat #2 to take a trip from Buffalo to Cleveland.

Finally, person three comes along and decides upon his favorite seat, seat #3 to take a journey from Toledo into Chicago.

Now, I come along, and I want to purchase a ticket from New York to Chicago on our three seat LSL, only to be met with the message ALL SEATS SOLD OUT, because there is no seat available for that distance. At some short distances along the entire run, someone has each of the seats reserved, so my train appears to me as SOLD OUT, even though there are segments along which it will now run empty.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

That would certainly be one possible outcome. And the fact that seats typically empty and fill and empty and fill numerous times over the course of an LD trip does lead to a greater possibility of what you give as an example.

But..... It is also true that the way the seats are currently assigned on, for instance, Silver Service, is that you are assigned seating in a coach based on how far you are traveling (different distance destinations sit in difference coaches). If the software did the same thing, it is less likely that the problem you suggested will happen, because long distance travelers go in the long distance coach, medium in another, short in another, etc. So short-distance travelers would be less likely to "spoil" a long distance seat's availability. (ok, actually it's more of an assignment based on destination, functionally works out the same, sort of)... I have never been asked to move during a trip because the attendant was reshuffling. And the problem should be the same for the attendant as it would be for the software, theoretically. They might even be able to refine the software for this. Another problem, however, as someone else suggested, is if they substitute equipment. Or if the seat you get assigned has a bad footrest or calf support or won't recline, or the tray is busted, or (fill in your own). These things HAVE happened to me, and I had no trouble switching to another, less dysfunctional seat. That, however, would tend to bollix upthe software's "solution set", because there's no way for the system to know when a seat becomes "bad-ordered" during a trip.

Bottom line is that if the software operated akin to the current "system", then because they assign coaches based on distance to be traveled by that particular passenger, the problem you suggest is less likely, I think, than first glance would suggest. And if other railroads can do it, Amtrak ought to be able to. Although perhaps only the Canadian, Russian, Chinese, or Australian rail systems (maybe India?) could be used as a comparison because I don't know if any other systems than those have anything like the kind of long-distance, many-stations routes that we do. Germany can't, and it would seem that unless you have the same kind of innumerable very short AND also many very long-distance city pairs available on a given train, comparisons don't have much utility.

Thinking a little further on this, one fly in the ointment would be a passenger who is not pre-ticketed and boards the train at an unattended station, buying the ticket directly from the conductor. How does the computer ticketing system assign him a seat when it doesn't know he exists, and at what point can the conductor interface with the ticketing system to let it know of that passenger and also what seat he was assigned so that the automated system can mark that seat sold for the city pair for that passenger? There would have to be a means for the conductor to frequently interface with the system so that both the conductor and the system could be kept up-to-date. Ideally that would be a datalink by radio between the ticketing system and a computer, possibly a cell-enabled laptop. Intriguing problem, but it should be workable. Germany probably has 100% saturation on digital cell sites for all of their train routes. We don't, the U.S. is just too big.

 

[Sam Damon]

I think I've posted this in another thread; I'll post it again here.

When one has (had? it was 20 years ago, after all) a reservation on DB trains, someone would print up a seat check with the seat number and car number (DB did not use the carline system that US railroads use) for the car. When you boarded the train, you found your seat. You'd also receive a separate ticket indicating you had a reservation that had the same seat and car number from the ticket agent at the time you made the reservation. DB also charged you DM 3.00 for a reservation, IIRC.

However DB would let anyone occupy the seat outside the stations I had reserved travel between. Occasionally, I would find someone in the seat I had reserved. If the train wasn't crowded, I'd take another seat in the compartment. If the train was crowded, I would wait for the conductor, point out my reservation, and have him kick the person out of the seat.

The people I did that to would tend to get upset in a way only Germans can when they realize they've been zapped. At that point, I'd point to the seat check, and say, "Tut mir leid..."

 

[Trogdor]

But..... It is also true that the way the seats are currently assigned on, for instance, Silver Service, is that you are assigned seating in a coach based on how far you are traveling (different distance destinations sit in difference coaches). If the software did the same thing, it is less likely that the problem you suggested will happen, because long distance travelers go in the long distance coach, medium in another, short in another, etc.

But the advantage to the current setup is that things can change on the fly when needed. If there are more people than usual traveling a longer distance, then you just put them in space that's available in another car, or vice versa.

So short-distance travelers would be less likely to "spoil" a long distance seat's availability. (ok, actually it's more of an assignment based on destination, functionally works out the same, sort of)... I have never been asked to move during a trip because the attendant was reshuffling. And the problem should be the same for the attendant as it would be for the software, theoretically.

It's not the same system with a computer vs. the attendant. The reason is that the computer would have to assign seats in advance, meaning that any last-minute changes to someone's reservation, no-shows (a big deal, since Amtrak probably oversells coach by a certain percentage, the same way airlines do, in anticipation of last-minute cancellations and no-shows) would be much less likely to be accommodated. On LD trains where an attendant assigns seats, he/she can look at the actual situation on board, rather than one that was predicted two or three weeks in advance, and make assignments accordingly.

The difference between Amtrak and the airlines is that a flight is often just one segment, sometimes two. Virtually everyone is starting their journey at the same point and ending at the same point, making it much easier to regulate who sits where. When a flight becomes "sold out" and the airline starts to oversell, subsequent passengers aren't given a seat assignment right away. Instead, they have to get their seat assignment at check-in. Since flights usually close for check-in 15-20 minutes before departure, that leaves plenty of time to get those unassigned passengers reticketed with a new boarding pass that has an actual seat assignment.

Amtrak doesn't have the same ridership profile, and it would be difficult to tell (in advance, at least) which passengers are no-shows. Plus, you have to give the "unassigned" passenger a seat that won't be taken later on.

They might even be able to refine the software for this. Another problem, however, as someone else suggested, is if they substitute equipment. Or if the seat you get assigned has a bad footrest or calf support or won't recline, or the tray is busted, or (fill in your own). These things HAVE happened to me, and I had no trouble switching to another, less dysfunctional seat. That, however, would tend to bollix upthe software's "solution set", because there's no way for the system to know when a seat becomes "bad-ordered" during a trip.

Equipment substitution is one issue. A car simply facing the other way is another, as then all the car numbers are reversed. Suppose someone really wanted to be on the left side of the train, or at the front of the car, and their car is reversed. Granted, the same thing could happen (and often does) with sleepers, but coaches (particularly Superliner coaches, since there's no need to match up the vestibule doors as on the Amfleet IIs) easily face any which way. Perhaps not as big of an issue, granted, but how do you assign seats if the passenger doesn't have the advantage of knowing where in the car he/she's going to be?

Bottom line is that if the software operated akin to the current "system", then because they assign coaches based on distance to be traveled by that particular passenger, the problem you suggest is less likely, I think, than first glance would suggest.

The problem, as I noted earlier, is that you have to designate, in advance, which coaches will be "long-distance" coaches and which ones will be "short-distance." This limits the flexibility the system has in being able to allocate seats according to actual demand.

And if other railroads can do it, Amtrak ought to be able to. Although perhaps only the Canadian, Russian, Chinese, or Australian rail systems (maybe India?) could be used as a comparison because I don't know if any other systems than those have anything like the kind of long-distance, many-stations routes that we do. Germany can't, and it would seem that unless you have the same kind of innumerable very short AND also many very long-distance city pairs available on a given train, comparisons don't have much utility.

I've only ridden VIA rail in coach once. I seem to recall that I was assigned a car number, but not a specific seat number. If that's the case, then that still doesn't accomplish what people seem to be complaining about in this thread. Even still, the trip was Montreal to Toronto, so decidedly a short-distance corridor trip, not a long-distance train.

Further, I understand that part of the reason the trial of seat-assignments was cancelled on Acela was due to passengers being unhappy with their seat assignments and wanting to sit somewhere else. It got to the point where the crew didn't want to bother dealing with the complaints and arguments from passengers, and at that point the program was dropped.

I imagine a similar fate could happen to seat assignments in coach.

One last note: If the whole point of seat assignments is to get families to sit together, then what happens when a bunch of single passengers all choose seats in rows that haven't already been taken? Then the family that books will have to choose their individual (separate) seats, and the whole purpose was defeated. In my observations, the crews make at least somewhat of an effort to keep families together. That's why they assign specific seats (on certain trains) when passengers board, and other trains have signs indicating that a certain section is for families of two or more only.

If the computer were to try and replicate the first example (of assigning seats more or less in order, specifically to keep pairs of seats free for groups traveling together), then wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of letting a passenger have an assigned seat in the first place (which I assumed would be so they could choose their own seat)?

 

[AlanB]

Further, I understand that part of the reason the trial of seat-assignments was cancelled on Acela was due to passengers being unhappy with their seat assignments and wanting to sit somewhere else. It got to the point where the crew didn't want to bother dealing with the complaints and arguments from passengers, and at that point the program was dropped.
I imagine a similar fate could happen to seat assignments in coach.

That is correct, refusal by passengers to seat where assigned and the refusal by the crew to enforce the assigned seats helped to lead to the demise of that program for Acela. I witnessed this problem more than once and on one occasion was unable to get the seat that I had picked because the crew wouldn't enforce the assignments.

There were also other factors that lead to the concept being dropped, but the above did play a big part.

One thing that the Acela program would have dealt with though, was the concept of no shows. Had the system been fully realized, an agent say in Wilmington would have been able to resell the seat of a no show from WAS or BAL. It was however plagued with the problem of my picking a seat between say NYP and PHL, which then sold out the car and blocked someone from getting a seat from say NHV to WAS. Of course the car wasn't really sold out, there just were no seats left empty for that entire distance. If they could have sold the guy in NHV a ticket from NHV to NYP in seat #1 for example, and then sold him seat #10 from NYP to WAS, then he could have been accomodated. But the system to my knowledge could not handle that issue.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

Well, to be clear, I am not really advocating going to a ticketing system-assigned seating program. In this thread I am trying to act more as devil's advocate, to see if we can collectively really explore the practical problems involved in trying to do it, somewhat more in depth than usual, and to really air both the pros and cons. We frequently aim a lot more conclusory barbs at ideas or proposals without really trying to explore what they could actually look like and how or if they might actually work.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Well,I am not necessarily advocating a return to pre-Amtrak reserved seats. And I definately do not have good clear consise answers to the various objections posted here.

So...what can I really offer that would make any sense?

Maybe nothing, really, just point out that it did used to get done in the pre-Amtrak era (probably a slow beginning in the late 30's forward) , somehow,some way, and without computers, without 800 numbers and by Western Union telegram. And, of course, without a uniform national system--all these railroads, some even competing with each other--hard to imagine today.

First, not all trainis had reserved seats. It was mostly the streamliners (and not all of them) . Maybe about one third of the trains---very hard to estimate. It was in most quarters considered a luxury. A few railroads even charged extra for reserved seats. Not much--usually about $1 or $1.50. Of course a dollar meant more back then than it does today. I have been told that was to cover the extra "paper'involved. You would have your ticket, then a separate piece of paper was your rerservation. Same thing in pullmans--two separate pieces of paper.

One thing that comes up is the different numbers of seats in the cars. Well there used to be many more types of single level coaches then than there are now. Much more chance for this to be a problem--yet we survived, somehow. Maybe because there was more standby equipment sitting around. Maybe by borrowing from other railroads.

I remember once during the Amtrak era I was in the slumbercoach from ATl to NYC. It malfunctioned and they happend to have two standard sleepers sitting around. A slumbercoach holds more than a sleeper, so they used two sleepers to accommodate everybody. And because we were in a more expensive room, still it was not our "fault" so we did not have to pay extra. I have been told if you had to ride in an inferior space you got a refund but in a more expensive space you do not pay extra, this would be for coach or sleeper either. For example somebody who was put in a bedroom but reserved a section got that bedroom at section prices!!

If a 64 seats coach was replaced by a 44 seat car what would happen? Well, some might ride in the lounge car. I was even on a train one time in which people "slept" sitting up in the diner until they added two coaches the next morning. This was a train which had abandoned reserved seats just two years before. If it had had reserved seats they might have known to provide those extra coaches.

I do know that the seats were rationed out among the bigger stops, i.e. the CZ Chicago reservationists staff would be responsible for people boarding between there and Denver; Denver for those between there and Salt Lake City and SLC for those between there and SF. That might help with the problem of seats between intermediate points.

The sleeper was even more trouble than the coaches since there have been up to four hundred(yes, 400) different kinds of sleeping cars in U.S. history. So it was a big problem when the only car around had completly different rooms than what was needed. But it worked out, somehow. The pullman company was a big help, making it relatively easy to borrow from other roads if needed.It might intterest you to know that there was a pullman conductor in addition to the regular conducter. Guess the pullman conductor had the hair-pulling job of putting people who had been booked in a 12 section one drawing room car into one with 18 roomettes, or 10/6, or four section, four roomettes five double bedrooms one compartment, etc, etc. And of course this was all up and down the line. IF a car was out for scheduled maintenace of course they could work around this.

So I've gone on a long time. Don't know if I have solved anything other than to point out that somehow it got done---reserved coach seats.The whole booking process was so much more complicated. Adn they did make more mistakes than they make today.

I voted "no" for going back to them, BTW.

 

[AmtrakCrescent20]

Some have mentioned passengers buying tickets from the conductor as a reason not to have assigned seats. On all reserved trains--all long distance and now most NE Corridor trains--"reservations" are required. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that mean that you have to at least make a reservation BEFORE boarding the train, and that you can then buy a ticket and pay the conductor on board? So the system would know in advance that there was a passenger coming.

The situation with individuals book say all the window seats in one car, leaving only individual seats and no seat pairs wouldn't happen until close to departure date. So if a family wants to sit together, they'd have to book at least a month in advance, or else, it's their problem-just as on an airline. If the method originally mentioned wouldn't work, here are two other solutions:

1) Let passengers choose window/aisle seats when booking. Families/groups would automatically be assigned blocks of seats together. However, this would be done by the system, to avoid having many empty seats.

2) Convert just 1-2 coaches to assigned seating, and offer it at a $5 or so accomodation charge per reservation, not per person. Then, if someone wasn't satisfied with their assigned seat, they could move back to the unassigned coaches, assuming they aren't full. If they are full, the situation would be no better than with today's system of all unassigned seats.

3) Have one coach be a "group" coach. I know that would interfere with the car attendants' loading procedures, but it could be worked out. In that coach, the groups would naturally fill in all the seats, and the odd number groups would balance each other out, and everyone could sit with their group.

Just ideas.

 

[AlanB]

Some have mentioned passengers buying tickets from the conductor as a reason not to have assigned seats. On all reserved trains--all long distance and now most NE Corridor trains--"reservations" are required. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that mean that you have to at least make a reservation BEFORE boarding the train, and that you can then buy a ticket and pay the conductor on board? So the system would know in advance that there was a passenger coming.

You are correct that one must at least make a reservation before boarding a long distance train. If there is no time to mail the tickets and you're not near a staffed station, then you can pick up and pay for you ticket via the conductor.

Regarding the NEC, it is indeed all reserved. One cannot however board the train without a valid ticket. The conductors cannot issue tickets on board NEC trains anymore. If you don't have a valid ticket, they'll put you off at the next station so that you can buy a ticket for the next train. Or if you had a reservation for that train, then you'll have to see an agent to get that reservation converted to the next arriving train.

 

[Sam Damon]

But the advantage to the current setup is that things can change on the fly when needed. If there are more people than usual traveling a longer distance, then you just put them in space that's available in another car, or vice versa.
It's not the same system with a computer vs. the attendant. The reason is that the computer would have to assign seats in advance, meaning that any last-minute changes to someone's reservation, no-shows (a big deal, since Amtrak probably oversells coach by a certain percentage, the same way airlines do, in anticipation of last-minute cancellations and no-shows) would be much less likely to be accommodated. On LD trains where an attendant assigns seats, he/she can look at the actual situation on board, rather than one that was predicted two or three weeks in advance, and make assignments accordingly.

The difference between Amtrak and the airlines is that a flight is often just one segment, sometimes two. Virtually everyone is starting their journey at the same point and ending at the same point, making it much easier to regulate who sits where. When a flight becomes "sold out" and the airline starts to oversell, subsequent passengers aren't given a seat assignment right away. Instead, they have to get their seat assignment at check-in. Since flights usually close for check-in 15-20 minutes before departure, that leaves plenty of time to get those unassigned passengers reticketed with a new boarding pass that has an actual seat assignment.

Amtrak doesn't have the same ridership profile, and it would be difficult to tell (in advance, at least) which passengers are no-shows. Plus, you have to give the "unassigned" passenger a seat that won't be taken later on.

This is precisely why I rather liked the way DB ran things. We should note that DB received piles of funny blue money to accomplish this, while Amtrak is starved of green stuff to accomplish what should be routine things.

Anyway, under the DB system, passengers who did not reserve are quite welcome to occupy a seat that's reserved down the line. They're also welcome to occupy it if the person who reserved the seat doesn't show up. What makes the system work as well as it does is the fact DB conductors enforce the reservation policy.

In my time over there, I can only recall one or two times that I had to have the DB conductors throw someone out of my reserved seat. Seems to me they were on weekend trains, when everyone seemed to be travelling. Weekends really were the only time you'd see DB trains running late.

I also have to add, when we're talking about a DB train "running late", we're talking about a delay of 15-20 minutes. NOT four to six hours.

 

[Mark]

"It always seems that, when I take Amtrak, there's a certain futz factor, where someone is screwing around with some thing at departure time."

"But the boarding process at Chicago Union Station has struck me as loony tunes."

I completely agree, there seems to ALWAYS be some kind of screwing around at departure time. Another difference is that everytime I ride Amtrak it seems like a significant number of people boarding behave like they've never ridden a train before, (Amtrak or otherwise), let alone traveled at all, period. The pokey ones with the 10,000lbs of luggage, who stop at every car, (particularly at CUS), and ask where to go drive me NUTS!

On a recent LSL trip to NYC, my wife and I found a woman in our roomette after struggling past the 'pokey's. My wife became irritated: bumps in to me, has to back up, small space, luggage, etc. I showed the woman to her room and where its noted on her ticket.

Expecting Americans to be smart enough to read a ticket AND signs- hmmmmm.

 

[Guest]

What if you could only reserve in groups of 2 or more. Single riders would just pick aisle or window, and get in the lowest numbered seat of that type.

 

[George Harris]

I guess I am really spoiled by living in Taiwan. There are three classes of reserved trains and a bunch of non-reserved locals. From Taipei, about 40 trains on the west coast route and 30 or so to the ease coast route, with overlaps and the north end, some through, and only running part of the route. If I want a ticket, sometime between two weeks and two minutes ahead of departure, I can walk up to a ticket window and in exchange for a known amount of cash be given a ticket with a train time and date, car number, and seat number on it. This can also be done by internet if you have a chinese speaking computer, and I believe also by phone. I have never even heard of a double sold seat. Nor do I know of any case where seats were left unsold if the demand was there, but that would be less likely to be known.

This does not count the new High Speed line which is a seperate corporation.

I have been given tickets where you have a seat for only part of the distance. If you get on a train without a seat reservation you can sit until the person with the reservation comes along. Unlike the German experience mentioned, here people are quite polite about it. When the person with reservation comes up, they simply show their ticket, or just say this is my seat, and the people in it get up. I have been on both sides of that act. Of course tickets are sold beyond the seating capacity, and then you stand or lean if all seats are full. Since most places can be reached in 3 to 6 hours, it is not too bad. My worst is to spend the night on a holiday weekend sitting, sort of, on the floor in the vestibule with about 10 other people. But, to be there for my son's activity the choice was travel with no seat reservation or don't go.

 

[DaveKCMO]

if you could pick your seat like on a plane i would be in favor.

ditto. i thought it was interesting that we were assigned seats before boarding the cascades. it makes sense to add a bit of order to the boarding process on other trains. as an aside, my corridor train on VIA between toronto and montreal was assigned seating before boarding, but the train between windsor and toronto was not.

 

[Steve4031]

I think I've posted this in another thread; I'll post it again here.
When one has (had? it was 20 years ago, after all) a reservation on DB trains, someone would print up a seat check with the seat number and car number (DB did not use the carline system that US railroads use) for the car. When you boarded the train, you found your seat. You'd also receive a separate ticket indicating you had a reservation that had the same seat and car number from the ticket agent at the time you made the reservation. DB also charged you DM 3.00 for a reservation, IIRC.

However DB would let anyone occupy the seat outside the stations I had reserved travel between. Occasionally, I would find someone in the seat I had reserved. If the train wasn't crowded, I'd take another seat in the compartment. If the train was crowded, I would wait for the conductor, point out my reservation, and have him kick the person out of the seat.

The people I did that to would tend to get upset in a way only Germans can when they realize they've been zapped. At that point, I'd point to the seat check, and say, "Tut mir leid..."

I had a go around with a guy about my reserved seat. my seat was in a compartment. I had carefully reserved the seat a month or so before while I was still in the U.S. and had requested a window seat. He was the only one in the compartment, sitting in my window seat which was facing forward. I poined out that I had reserved the seat. He motined to the other seats. I pointed out that I had paid for THAT seat, and he could move now or when the conductor came. He got up and moved muttered "what difference does it make." I stated "15 U.S. dollars chump". I sat down and enjoyed my ride along the Rhine, and he sat there andd scowed at me. I playedd rap music on my MP3 and scowed bacck. He got offf a few stops later.

I know I could have reserved for much cheaper in Europe, but it was important to mee to have that window seat on that train. So I paid for it. I would pay a similar premium to be guaranteed a window seat on an Amtrak LD train to avoid having to deal with a bossy attendant who saw fit over meeting the needs of people traveling togehter before those who had gotten there first. I dont hoard both seats, and have no problem with people sitting next to me. Just dont get on the train 5 minutes before departure and then ask me to move so that you and somebody else can sit together.

 

[Superliner Diner]

Whether seats are reserved online in advance, or assigned in the station or upon boarding, IT HAS TO BE ENFORCED.

On coach class on LD trains (Silver Service comes to mind!) the attendants will assign a seat to boarding passengers, and they keep track of it with a little printed seat chart kept in their pockets. Lo and behold, somebody boards in Philadelphia and goes to the seat they were assigned to, only to find out that somebody who got on in New York has decided to spread out and has occupied that seat. This leads to utter confusion, as the aisle is blocked while the two hash out their differences.

So even if you were able to pick your seat online during the reservation process, that does not mean you won't have a confrontation when you get on the train.

 

[AmtrakCrescent20]

I would be fine with the current pre boarding seat assignment if you could choose a window or an aisle seat beforehand. The only problem with the current process is that individual travelers get little or no choice. Personally I don't see how hard it would be to add a step to the booking process where you can select window or aisle. Groups would automatically be put together. As I've said before, if someone buys a ticket 30minutes before departure, and doesn't get their preferred type of seat they would just have to deal with it. As it is now, you have just as much of a chance to get the type of seat you want, since all of one type could and often are occupied.