Long Distance (LD) fleet replacement RFP discussion H1 2024

[JermyZP]

I think the black space next to the shower is steps and the table next to the vanity is meant to be a nightstand. I hope better images come out sooner rather than later.

Most likely, there is a view of that area in the documents. It looks like space for trash bin, a shelf, coat hooks, and a handlebar.

 

[JermyZP]

There is a concept layout for the premium bedroom. I added some details about the room because it's hard to see due to the contrast being blown out.

 

[Cal]

The Solo Suite is not comparable to the current Bedroom, as it has no bath. IMO, the Club BR replaces the Bedroom; they just expanded the berths to accommodate up to 4.


There will be at least 1 community bath & 1 community shower for each level that has Roomettes or SoloSuites.


I think once you get up there, it would be fairly easy for an able-bodied person to slide or roll over to the wall. You'd just want to make sure the top sheet is pulled back beforehand.

where is the club bedroom image

 

[GDRRiley]

Rocky Mountaineer uses this right? Or at least something similar:


https://www.rockymountaineer.com/me...capacity-new-luxury-rail-cars-seven-glassdome

Electronic Variable Neutral Density is different and decently mature. At this point it is in quite a bit of camera equipment

 

[sportbiker]

I don't see anything that replaces the SSL for coach. There is a café car, true, but the text focuses on food service booths rather than lounge chairs that prioritize landscape viewing and hanging out. For example, the table on 1-16 calls out 27 units of "table/lounge" seating for first class but only 14 units of "café seating" for the coach cafe.

Perhaps the blown-out drawings show something otherwise.

 

[BlackDiamond]

All that you need to connect a private car is an H Coupler and train line, Comms and HEP Connector which the end cars will have. So no problem adding PV. In particular a gangway connection is not necessary.

Although in the case of a PV added to the rear of the train, you would need a way for the conductor to access the rear of the train if there is a backup move, as is the case for some LD trains today.

 

[JP1822]

But Amtrak doesn't have shades

Now reaching way back into my memory brain cells, and I really don't know if I am right about this, but I kind of remember the original Viewliners had internal shades on the interior windows. They proved to be problematic so the curtains were added. Does anyone remember this or was I hallucinating?

Yes! I remember them! These internal shades really kept the light out and were awesome!!! When they worked that is - at the beginning of the Viewliner Sleeper's life in the late 1990s and early 2000's. They got replaced with regular curtains, that never did the internal shades justice. They were great though!

 

[JP1822]

where is the club bedroom image

It's in the documents. I agree that it appears that the "club bedroom" would be the "closest" replacement to the current Superliner bedroom option. The lower level option as a "double bed" is nice. There's only 8 Club Bedrooms in the minimum consist design, when presently Amtrak has 10 if having two regular Superliner Sleepers. But there are other sleeper options and variety in the new LD bi-level fleet design. Again, I think the designs were pretty creative overall. Chapter 11 has info on the "interior" layouts etc. I forget the exact details, but the overall designs tries to minimize the use of ladders to get to the upper berth. The idea seems to have built in steps or similar options. I was surprised, yet liked, as to how the portable stairs were minimized. Largely being used for the roomettes.

 

[Mailliw]

Shouldn't the regular sleepers be able to fit more than 4 roomettes on the lower lever? The ADA bedrooms are in another car and the premium bedroom doesn't seem to take up that much more space than the family bedroom.

 

[jis]

Although in the case of a PV added to the rear of the train, you would need a way for the conductor to access the rear of the train if there is a backup move, as is the case for some LD trains today.

Since the train does have to stop before it starts a backup move the Conductor will have ample opportunity to get on board the last car.

 

[joelkfla]

Shouldn't the regular sleepers be able to fit more than 4 roomettes on the lower lever? The ADA bedrooms are in another car and the premium bedroom doesn't seem to take up that much more space than the family bedroom.

The Family Bedroom is very shallow. With the lower berth down, there's just enough room to stand. The Premium Bedroom looks roughly square in shape, and also contains a large bathroom. I think it will be at least twice as deep as the FB.

They'll also need a bathroom and shower on that level for the Roomettes. Add a luggage rack and the bottom half of a stairway, and IMO that about fills up the space between axles.

 

[jimdex]

I don't see anything that replaces the SSL for coach. There is a café car, true, but the text focuses on food service booths rather than lounge chairs that prioritize landscape viewing and hanging out. For example, the table on 1-16 calls out 27 units of "table/lounge" seating for first class but only 14 units of "café seating" for the coach cafe.

Perhaps the blown-out drawings show something otherwise.

If we are indeed talking about fixed-consist bi-level trains, there ought to be lounge sections at both ends of each train, one for coach passengers and the other for sleeper passengers. This would enable windows at the front and back of all trains, allowing occupants of the front lounge to look forward over the locomotives as in a dome car, and allowing occupants of the rear lounge to look back behind the train, as in a rear-end observation car.

 

[jis]

If we are indeed talking about fixed-consist bi-level trains, there ought to be lounge sections at both ends of each train, one for coach passengers and the other for sleeper passengers. This would enable windows at the front and back of all trains, allowing occupants of the front lounge to look forward over the locomotives as in a dome car, and allowing occupants of the rear lounge to look back behind the train, as in a rear-end observation car.

This would be contrary to the desire to be able to expand capacity of trains by attaching additional cars to the core. For that reason I don't think this will happen.

 

[jimdex]

This would be contrary to the desire to be able to expand capacity of trains by adding more cars to the core. For that reason I don't think this will happen.

This is unclear to me. How does moving more cars to the core expand capacity?

 

[jis]

This is unclear to me. How does moving more cars to the core expand capacity?

You don't move more cars to the core. You attach non-core cars to the core. That has been the assumption all along. That is what is used to handle things like the splitting of trains and adding capacity for heavy use periods etc.

Note that it is a requirement that all cars have a common coupler harness which could either have a drawbar or an H coupler installed in it. So in principle any car can be converted from a core car to a non-core one. But of course for reasons to abide by the ADA certification, the core service cars and cars with elevators will be in the middle of the core and other stuff can be added at the ends. Presumably, if needed additional cars can be inserted between the Utility Car and the rest of the train. Of course we will know the details after the vendors propose their solutions.

 

[OmahaRoad]

I don't see anything that replaces the SSL for coach. There is a café car, true, but the text focuses on food service booths rather than lounge chairs that prioritize landscape viewing and hanging out. For example, the table on 1-16 calls out 27 units of "table/lounge" seating for first class but only 14 units of "café seating" for the coach cafe.

Perhaps the blown-out drawings show something otherwise.

Yes, I sure hope they do; I'm very worried about this. The U.S. is not Europe; we have trains that travel 1,500+ miles over multiple days, and coach passengers should have somewhere to hang out and just move around/spend time other than their seats and a small cafe car, which would not be nearly as good for landscape viewing, etc. It would be a huge self-own for Amtrak to not have cars like this available for coach passengers.

That, and having a SSL replacement would prevent us from having to experience people bemoaning the loss of the majestic SSL for the next 30+ years I mean, can you imagine the comments in forums and on whatever social media platforms exist in the future?! Lol.

 

[JP1822]

And the Viewliner Baggage Cars get rendered useless for the bi-level LD train sets that are being proposed I presume? Forget the baggage space in the Utility car - use the Viewliner Baggage Car and create more revenue sleeper or crew space etc. There's 70 some new Viewliner Baggage Cars, let alone 10 Viewliner Bagg/Crew Dorms. Doesn't sound like there's much future use desired of the Viewliner Baggage Cars.....Send those shells back to make into LD cafe cars, sightseer cars, or sleepers to increase capacity on eastern LD services. UGH!

 

[Silophant]

Is there a need to get into the baggage car while the train is moving? Seems like you could just clamp a Viewliner bag car onto the end of a bilevel consist and just accept that no one can access it between stations.

 

[west point]

Why not use the baggage car for baggage? But also install whatever is needed for LD trains to carry extra supplies that could be swapped out at some intermediate stations?

 

[Mailliw]

It's probably cheaper to just order new cars instead of converting the Viewliner baggage cars.

 

[GDRRiley]

It's probably cheaper to just order new cars instead of converting the Viewliner baggage cars.

there is no conversion needed

 

[user 14106]

I don't see anything that replaces the SSL for coach. There is a café car, true, but the text focuses on food service booths rather than lounge chairs that prioritize landscape viewing and hanging out. For example, the table on 1-16 calls out 27 units of "table/lounge" seating for first class but only 14 units of "café seating" for the coach cafe.

Perhaps the blown-out drawings show something otherwise.

There is an option in there to have the same skylight style windows in the coaches as for the lounges - so conceivably you could "sightsee" right from your seat on cars where they exercise that option. Obviously it's nice to have somewhere to go other than your seat but if the coaches had the same style windows it mitigates the issue somewhat. It's also not possible to glean what the actual rules regarding the lounge will be from the tech spec. There's nothing of course stopping them from opening it up to coach passengers if there's an advocacy push to do so - even if it's called the first class lounge in the specs.

 

[FortCalhoun]

The problem of depending on skylight style windows in coaches replacing a lounge is that many passengers prefer to close the curtains, especially during the evening hours. This makes it impossible to see what is outside.

 

[jis]

There are some interesting financials for the LD passenger cars mentioned in the FY25 Grant Request. Specifically it is stated that the project stretches out from now till 2037 and is expected to cost more than $7 Billion, but for now $7Billion is planned. All these are from IIJA Appropriation.

 

[Andrew]

There are some interesting financials for the LD passenger cars mentioned in the FY25 Grant Request. Specifically it is stated that the project stretches out from now till 2037 and is expected to cost more than $7 Billion, but for now $7Billion is planned. All these are from IIJA Appropriation.

So what you are implying is that the bilevel replacement is essentially already paid for?

And of the following rolling stock manufacturers, (Alstom, Siemens and Stadler), who do you think is most likely to both win and receive the new fleet contract?