Longest stretch of authorized 110 mph running speed?

[acelafan]

Today I took the Lincoln Service/Missouri River Runner from Chicago to Alton, IL. I wanted to see the new Midwest equipment but also ride on the finally-finished (?) 110 mph corridor from Chicago to St Louis. It was niiiiiice.

My Amtrak authority says the track is rated for 110 mph between Joliet, IL and Alton, IL with a few slow spots, of course, such as around Springfield.

My question is - does anyone know if a longer mileage stretch of 110 mph running exists on Amtrak's network?

I think the NEC gets hampered by curves and bridges. I can't imagine Michigan 110 mph being longer but maybe it is? Alton to Joliet is 220 miles according to the timetable.

If there's another thread on this, feel free to send me there!

 

[amtkstn]

Longer segments of that speed in MI and north of NYC to Albany. Also PHL to Harrisburg

 

[jis]

If a few select slow spots are allowed then basically Elizabeth NJ to Washington DC is 110mph or higher with a few slow spots.

Also once full certification is completed Brightline will be 110mph or higher with a few slow spots between West Palm Beach and Orlando Airport. Currently it has the only 125mph railroad outside the NEC.

 

[acelafan]

Longer segments of that speed in MI and north of NYC to Albany. Also PHL to Harrisburg

I know that is not right for NYP-ALB, It's 75 mph from YNY-CRT, then 80 CRT-POU, then 90 or 95 up to HUD. It's only 110 mph for about 10 miles north of HUD to ALB.

 

[acelafan]

Longer segments of that speed in MI and north of NYC to Albany. Also PHL to Harrisburg

110 is only west of Parkesburg, so that is about 60 miles to HAR. 90 max east of Parkesburg.

 

[MARC Rider]

Seems like from New Carrolton to just north of Halethorpe, though a lot of regionals have to slow down to do the crossover north of Odenton so they can platform at BWI. that must be at least 20 miles

Just north of the Bayview Yards north of Baltimore to the Susquehanna River bridge at Havre De Grace. Then from the other side of the bridge to just outside of Wilmington. Also, they do about 85-90 going over the bridge.

Beyond Wilmington to just outside Philadelphia. Frankford Jct. to Trenton. Not sure how fast non-stopping trains go when passing through Trenton. Then from Trenton to Elizabeth, including a few miles with 150 mph maximum.

 

[niemi24s]

If you select a map style of max speed here. . . OpenRailwayMap . . .they'll be displayed but you'll have to get the lengths from the milepost data available here . . .https://fragis.fra.dot.gov/GISFRASafety/ . . .or use the distance scale at the lower left corner of the map in the first link.

Looks like there might be several 150mph segments heading NNE on the way to Boston.

Using a transparent rule on a PC monitor and the scale on the map I get 5.4 miles for the length of the 150mph segment farthest from Boston.

 

[daybeers]

Also once full certification is completed Brightline will be 110mph or higher with a few slow spots between West Palm Beach and Orlando Airport

I thought this was complete with the recent schedule change, no?

 

[acelafan]

If you select a map style of max speed here. . . OpenRailwayMap . . .they'll be displayed but you'll have to get the lengths from the milepost data available here . . .https://fragis.fra.dot.gov/GISFRASafety/ . . .or use the distance scale at the lower left corner of the map in the first link.

Looks like there might be several 150mph segments heading NNE on the way to Boston.

Using a transparent rule on a PC monitor and the scale on the map I get 5.4 miles for the length of the 150mph segment farthest from Boston.

That map is exactly what I was looking for - thanks so much!

 

[WWW]

If you select a map style of max speed here. . . OpenRailwayMap . . .they'll be displayed but you'll have to get the lengths from the milepost data available here . . .https://fragis.fra.dot.gov/GISFRASafety/ . . .or use the distance scale at the lower left corner of the map in the first link.

Looks like there might be several 150mph segments heading NNE on the way to Boston.

Using a transparent rule on a PC monitor and the scale on the map I get 5.4 miles for the length of the 150mph segment farthest from Boston.

Echoing a Thank You very much !

 

[JamesWhitcombRiley]

I've only found one example of speed chart like the ones below, from an infamous 2014 study by Real Transit advocating privatization of Amtrak. I even checked the notes, found no source with charts like these.



So I post this for the charts, outdated, but I like the format. I would not really like to see more reports from Real Transit, part of a web of publications citing, or directly from, Cato, and going back to the Congressionally mandated Amtrak Reform Council, which existed from 1998 to 2002. Just to keep tabs on Real Transit, I'll note its report comes in two forms, PDF and web pages, and there are differences. The section "Privatizing Amtrak and Creating IRSA" is demoted in the PDF to a subheading and so it does not appear in that document's table of contents. I found one travel site that clipped a chart, and gave Real Transit credit. That chart, only appearing in the web version, compares current speeds to theoretical speeds, in the section called "Improving the Southern Section of the Northeast Corridor" (not included here).

 

[west point]

JW Riley. Agree that charting certainly shows where the slow sections are. Unfortunately, a revision needed to highlight where 160 MPH is planned. The chart shows the Elizabeth compound curves as 2 miles + another 2 miles for slow down and speed up. Eliminating it would cut at least 2 minutes off schedule. The other is Frankford to North PHL several miles of 60 MPH running,

Had no idea the effect of Wilmington has on schedule. New Haven <> BOS No comment,

 

[jis]

JW Riley. Agree that charting certainly shows where the slow sections are. Unfortunately, a revision needed to highlight where 160 MPH is planned.

Wherever it now shows 150mph, those will go up to 160mph, A lot of the currently shown 135mph will possibly go up to 150/160 with installation of constant tension catenary.

The chart shows the Elizabeth compound curves as 2 miles + another 2 miles for slow down and speed up. Eliminating it would cut at least 2 minutes off schedule.

The speed limits shown for the Elizabeth Curve on the inner tracks is wrong. It is now 80mph for Acelas with tilt, 70mph for NERs. That 55mph was an artifact of what could be enforced using speed signal aspects. ACSES allow for finer control of civil speed limits.. The speed profile through there is very different now.

The other is Frankford to North PHL several miles of 60 MPH running,

And then there is Metropark-Metuchen 90mph, which is only 10mph faster than the new speed limits on the Elizabeth S curve.

Beyond Wilmington to just outside Philadelphia. Frankford Jct. to Trenton. Not sure how fast non-stopping trains go when passing through Trenton. Then from Trenton to Elizabeth, including a few miles with 150 mph maximum.

Through Trenton on the middle tracks (no platform) is I believe 110.

There is 90mph through Metropark/Metuchen.

IIRC Holmesburg to Metuchen is pretty clear 110+. If Acelas had their speed bumped up through the Metuchen/Metropark curve to 110, then it is all the way to Elizabeth 110+.

One thing that puzzles me is that with so much 110mph why does it take 5 hours to cover CHI - STL 284 miles? There must be quite a bit of hopelessly slow segments too. I would expect it to be a 4.5hrs or slightly less, specially with so few stops.

 

[PerRock]

It's 110mph from Kalamazoo, MI to Porter, IN; with only a short slow-down section at Niles, MI (but you're stopping there anyways).

peter

 

[railiner]

One thing that puzzles me is that with so much 110mph why does it take 5 hours to cover CHI - STL 284 miles? There must be quite a bit of hopelessly slow segments too. I would expect it to be a 4.5hrs or slightly less, specially with so few stops.

Good question!
Way back in 1938, the IC did it in 4:55, and going 10 miles further. And the Wabash and Alton did it in 15 more minutes...
http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track4/grndiamond193809.html

 

[WWW]

xxx

One thing that puzzles me is that with so much 110mph why does it take 5 hours to cover CHI - STL 284 miles? There must be quite a bit of hopelessly slow segments too. I would expect it to be a 4.5hrs or slig htly less, specially with so few stops.

Would it be that with freight traffic having to slow down to dive into a siding allowing the freight to pass.
You certainly don't hit the siding switch at speed -or- maybe I am not on the same page.
With a double track line switching to the opposite rail briefly to over take the slow stalled freight still yet
you don't hit the switch crossover at speed.
All 284 miles can not be done at 110 mph - with more freights on the move this switching is enough to cause
delays. A nightmare for dispatchers to keep everything running with a sense of timeliness/schedule - - -

 

[jis]

Would it be that with freight traffic having to slow down to dive into a siding allowing the freight to pass.
You certainly don't hit the siding switch at speed -or- maybe I am not on the same page.
With a double track line switching to the opposite rail briefly to over take the slow stalled freight still yet
you don't hit the switch crossover at speed.
All 284 miles can not be done at 110 mph - with more freights on the move this switching is enough to cause
delays. A nightmare for dispatchers to keep everything running with a sense of timeliness/schedule - - -

So this is the operational cost of being unable to double track the route in the 20 years that we have been dicking around with this. Sigh...

 

[Eric S]

If only Illinois (or Amtrak) had purchased the line 30ish years ago before SP (now UP) bought it...

 

[amtrakp42]

Today I took the Lincoln Service/Missouri River Runner from Chicago to Alton, IL. I wanted to see the new Midwest equipment but also ride on the finally-finished (?) 110 mph corridor from Chicago to St Louis. It was niiiiiice.

My Amtrak authority says the track is rated for 110 mph between Joliet, IL and Alton, IL with a few slow spots, of course, such as around Springfield.

My question is - does anyone know if a longer mileage stretch of 110 mph running exists on Amtrak's network?

I think the NEC gets hampered by curves and bridges. I can't imagine Michigan 110 mph being longer but maybe it is? Alton to Joliet is 220 miles according to the timetable.

If there's another thread on this, feel free to send me there!

Almost 2 billion was spent Chicago to Alton and Amtrak says it cut the trip 15 minutes!? But the railroad now has a nice track. There were several passenger trains in the 60s that ran 125 mph when late.

 

[acelafan]

Almost 2 billion was spent Chicago to Alton and Amtrak says it cut the trip 15 minutes!? But the railroad now has a nice track. There were several passenger trains in the 60s that ran 125 mph when late.

It's more than 15 minutes, #307 was carded for 5' 30" in 2013, it's now 4' 59" so a good improvement. Expensive? Yep...but now Amtrak and UP have a good set of smooth tracks!

 

[PaTrainFan]

It's more than 15 minutes, #307 was carded for 5' 30" in 2013, it's now 4' 59" so a good improvement. Expensive? Yep...but now Amtrak and UP have a good set of smooth tracks!

And more reliability, I presume.

 

[west point]

3"26 Joliet - Alton 220 miles. 6 intermediate stops approximate average speed ~~63 MPH. Not bad. Now that is very close to the NEC regionals NYP <> WAS average speed. Now if the route was all 2 main tracks and Springfield situation was solved???

 

[dlerach]

Wherever it now shows 150mph, those will go up to 160mph, A lot of the currently shown 135mph will possibly go up to 150/160 with installation of constant tension catenary.

The speed limits shown for the Elizabeth Curve on the inner tracks is wrong. It is now 80mph for Acelas with tilt, 70mph for NERs. That 55mph was an artifact of what could be enforced using speed signal aspects. ACSES allow for finer control of civil speed limits.. The speed profile through there is very different now.

And then there is Metropark-Metuchen 90mph, which is only 10mph faster than the new speed limits on the Elizabeth S curve.

Through Trenton on the middle tracks (no platform) is I believe 110.

There is 90mph through Metropark/Metuchen.

IIRC Holmesburg to Metuchen is pretty clear 110+. If Acelas had their speed bumped up through the Metuchen/Metropark curve to 110, then it is all the way to Elizabeth 110+.

One thing that puzzles me is that with so much 110mph why does it take 5 hours to cover CHI - STL 284 miles? There must be quite a bit of hopelessly slow segments too. I would expect it to be a 4.5hrs or slightly less, specially with so few stops.

JJS if you're talking about Acela with tilt I believe that Metropark and Metuchen are 110, not 90.

 

[jis]

JJS if you're talking about Acela with tilt I believe that Metropark and Metuchen are 110, not 90.

Yeah. That is what I was wondering. I knew they were working on it. I had not gotten confirmation that they actually raised it. Good to know that they did. So it is pretty much 110 all the way from Elizabeth to at least Holmsburg then.

 

[dlerach]

If the Susquehanna River Bridge is replaced with a 160-mph-capable structure, would there be any speed restrictions below 110 between Wilmington and the curves east of the Union Tunnels in East Baltimore? What is the MAS through Bayview Yard, the town of North East, and Perryville?