low cost bus line to portland, OR to compete against amtrak

[JayPea]

Apparently there isn't as much competition between Seattle and Portland as there used to be. I just noticed that another competitor between SEA and PDX -- SeaPort Air -- is no longer flying that route. They had advertised heavily for a while as being inexpensive and convenient, since they flew out of Boeing Field rather than Sea-Tac, but there are no Seattle flights listed on their website. When did that happen?

According to this article, that service ended on January 27th of this year. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SeaPort_Airlines

 

[afigg]

Shouldn't it be the job of the city authorities to create ordnances as to where a bus may and may not stop. If the stop is causing a nuisance and dmaging businesses, surely it should be possible to find an acceptable alternative location.

There must also be businesses who like having bus stops outside, because some of those passengers will buy things while waiting. For the same reason you will find commercially operated shops and food outlets in the larger Amtrak stations.

New York Times article on Megabus getting complaints about their current location in NYC outside the Port Authority Terminal. Megabus has a 3 month permit for the PA Terminal location, but may get kicked out.

Retail businesses will only like Megabus operating nearby if enough Megabus customers buy goods to make up for crowds blocking the sidewalks which may drive customers away. Sooner or later, Megabus in the major eastern cities will be forced to pay fees and operate from a proper facility.

 

[PRR 60]

Shouldn't it be the job of the city authorities to create ordnances as to where a bus may and may not stop. If the stop is causing a nuisance and dmaging businesses, surely it should be possible to find an acceptable alternative location.

There must also be businesses who like having bus stops outside, because some of those passengers will buy things while waiting. For the same reason you will find commercially operated shops and food outlets in the larger Amtrak stations.

New York Times article on Megabus getting complaints about their current location in NYC outside the Port Authority Terminal. Megabus has a 3 month permit for the PA Terminal location, but may get kicked out.

Retail businesses will only like Megabus operating nearby if enough Megabus customers buy goods to make up for crowds blocking the sidewalks which may drive customers away. Sooner or later, Megabus in the major eastern cities will be forced to pay fees and operate from a proper facility.

Perhaps NJ Transit buses should also be required to pay for curbside access in Philadelphia, and Amtrak buses should be required to pay for curbside access at Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco (and dozens of other locations)? Perhaps a double standard is being applied?

 

[fairviewroad]

I'm posting this from a northbound Bolt Bus on my way from Portland to Seattle. Currently near Kelso. Couple of thoughts:

1. Boarding in Portland...there's an overhang from a parking garage that wouldboard b protect people from rain (though not needed today). Still, it would

not be a nice place to wait in the winter, though there's a Starbucks on the corner.

2. The bus pulled up about 20 minutes before departure, so most of my time waiting was actually on board.

3. The "board by zone" system wasn't really followed. The 15 or so people who were waiting when the bus pulled up just formed a line and got on. Everyone

else boarded as they arrived at the bus stop.

4. The bus is less than half full. Anyone who wants a seat by themself got one. The website listed this run as being "sold out." Given that every ticket this

opening weekend is $1, it's not surprising that there would a substantial number of no-shows.

5. The wifi is spotty, slow, but workable for basic browsing. IOW, pretty much like the wifi on the Cascades.

6. The seats are noticeably larger than a standard Greyhound seat (in terms of legroom) but still VERY cramped compared to even the smallest Amtrak

seat. If I had someone next to me I'd really feel boxed in. There's no tray table or seatback pocket. Not enough room to even open my laptop fully, though

hardly anyone seems to travel with a laptop anymore.

7. There are power outlets at virtually every seat (the driver explained that there are no outlets at the wheelchair seats since they need to be moveable.)

The outlets are located such that both window and aisle passenger could use them. Very handy, as I'm now charging my laptop.

8. I'm about to get up and walk back to the snack car....uh, never mind. Should've bought some coffee back at Starbucks.

9. My ticket was $1 plus $1 web service charge. Looking ahead past the promotional period, most runs seem to be priced in the $8 - $15 range. My ticket

back to Portland this evening on Amtrak? $53. Yup. (If I weren't traveling on my company's dime I would have use an AGR special route award, though.)

With that kind of price difference you have to think a lot of people will give this bus a try.

 

[henryj]

It's still a bus........not a train. Trains are a premium form of ground travel. So what if they cost a little more.

 

[railiner]

Bolt Bus was created by its primary owner Greyhound Lines, not to compete against Amtrak, but rather to protect its and other "legacy" bus carriers bus market share from further erosion by cut-throat (sometimes literally), competition by low cost cut-rate bus carriers, as mentioned in various 'chinatowns'.

The dismal safety record of these carriers and the gangwar violence between some of them is well documented.

As far as terminals, carriers like Megabus, while a much better operation than the chinatown buses, is still a 'parasite', often placing their curbside pickup locales closeby Amtrak and Greyhound terminals, not so much to compete, but rather so their customers use the restrooms and other facilities paid for by their competition.

Kudo's to Boston, recognizing this trend early on, and forcing these cut-rate carriers into the municipal South Station bus terminal, where they have to pay their fair share of expenses.

The only bus carrier that has aluded to competing against Amtrak that I am aware of, is the extra-fare "Limoliner" that runs between Hilton Hotels in Boston and New York City. They have a hostess on board serving food and drinks to passengers in very roomy 2 and 1 leather seats....only 28 on a full sized coach.

 

[CHamilton]

In addition to Seattle and Portland, Bolt Bus will also offer travel to Vancouver, BC, and will stop at Pacific Central Station, the terminal for Amtrak and VIA.

http://vancouver.openfile.ca/blog/vancouver/2012/bolt-bus-busts-vancouver-offers-really-cheap-trips-seattle-and-portland

 

[fairviewroad]

Bolt Bus was created by its primary owner Greyhound Lines, not to compete against Amtrak, but rather to protect its and other "legacy" bus carriers bus market share from further erosion by cut-throat (sometimes literally), competition by low cost cut-rate bus carriers, as mentioned in various 'chinatowns'.

This may be true in the Northeast but there are no Chinatown busses running between Seattle and Portland. Current options are Greyhound, Amtrak, flying (Alaska or United), or driving.

You can scratch flying off the list of competitors since the modes and the price is so different. This will probably lure some people off the train, some people out of their cars, and some

people who would have otherwise stayed home. Anyone who is lured away from Greyhound will simply open up a seat for a longer-distance rider on Greyhound, so that's not really a

negative for Greyhound since the company gets the cash either way.

As far as terminals, carriers like Megabus, while a much better operation than the chinatown buses, is still a 'parasite', often placing their curbside pickup locales closeby Amtrak and Greyhound terminals, not so much to compete, but rather so their customers use the restrooms and other facilities paid for by their competition.

The BoltBus stop in Portland is nowhere near the Amtrak station (relatively speaking...it's a few stops on light rail if that counts). In Seattle it's about 3 blocks but I can't really see that people

would hang out in King Street Station to wait for the BoltBus three blocks away. In Vancouver BC there are other bus companies that use Pacific Central so I'd imagine there's some sort

of formal arrangement there, but I can't say for sure. Now, will the Starbucks that are nearby the Boltbus stops in PDX and SEA start complaining about Boltbus passengers? Perhaps,

but that's neither here nor there in terms of Amtrak.

 

[guest]

In Washington, D.C., BoltBus, MegaBus, and some other discount carriers stop in the parking garage of Union Station. Sbarro, Au Bon Pain, and perhaps McDonald's now seem to stay open late (all night?), whereas prior to these carriers stopping at WUS, these restaurants closed by ten.

 

[railiner]

In Washington, D.C., BoltBus, MegaBus, and some other discount carriers stop in the parking garage of Union Station. Sbarro, Au Bon Pain, and perhaps McDonald's now seem to stay open late (all night?), whereas prior to these carriers stopping at WUS, these restaurants closed by ten.

That's good. Get them off the street, and start paying rent. Looks like DC took a page from Boston's book....like to see other cities do the same.

 

[Cascadia]

Wonder if they'd ever add a run from Seattle to Bellingham, so many college kids go back and forth.

 

[CHamilton]

Low Fares Won't Lure Some Train Riders To New Bus Service

Both Boltbus and Amtrak's Cascades train offer free wifi and power outlets. But even with the extra legroom compared to a standard long-distance bus, I found I couldn't even open my laptop the whole way on the bus. On the train, not a problem.

...

I'm on the Cascades train heading southbound now, and doing something right now that I certainly was not able to do on the bus, which is I'm sitting in the café car enjoying a hot dinner and the Columbia River is rolling along to my right. Just generally a very relaxed atmosphere here.

 

[Anderson]

Low Fares Won't Lure Some Train Riders To New Bus Service

Both Boltbus and Amtrak's Cascades train offer free wifi and power outlets. But even with the extra legroom compared to a standard long-distance bus, I found I couldn't even open my laptop the whole way on the bus. On the train, not a problem.

...

I'm on the Cascades train heading southbound now, and doing something right now that I certainly was not able to do on the bus, which is I'm sitting in the café car enjoying a hot dinner and the Columbia River is rolling along to my right. Just generally a very relaxed atmosphere here.

That's...actually a very strong set of points in favor of Amtrak vs. a bus (and why I wouldn't seriously consider a bus for a longer trip given an alternative): Once the trip cracks 3-4 hours, a bus simply lacks any OBS (for obvious reasons), which becomes an issue at some point between 3 and 6 hours. Likewise, at least on the charter buses I've been on in the past, things...just aren't that comfortable. Now mind you, these weren't "real" intercity buses so there's likely a difference to be had there.

I'm just wondering this, since the no-terminal issue came up earlier in the thread: Has Boltbus or Megabus (or the Chinatown operators) ever hit legal trouble surrounding the "lots of people blocking up a sidewalk" issue (either with some odd existing ordnance involving stopping somewhere other than a marked bus stop or with a threat of one in the face of complaints from, say, a shopping mall or local businesses)?

 

[Ispolkom]

In Washington, D.C., BoltBus, MegaBus, and some other discount carriers stop in the parking garage of Union Station. Sbarro, Au Bon Pain, and perhaps McDonald's now seem to stay open late (all night?), whereas prior to these carriers stopping at WUS, these restaurants closed by ten.

That's good. Get them off the street, and start paying rent. Looks like DC took a page from Boston's book....like to see other cities do the same.

Other cities have. I'm taking Megabus from Buffalo to Toronto on Sunday and Megabus uses a bus terminal in both cities. I'd have preferred to take the Maple Leaf, but given the choice of 2 hours and $16 on the bus, and 4 hours and $76 on the train, it wasn't hard to choose the bus.

On the other hand, I'm not willing to ride Megabus Minneapolis-Chicago, regardless of how cheap it is. Seven hours on a bus is too long for me. I notice that Amtrak seems to have no problem selling seats on the Empire Builder, even with the competition of Megabus, Greyhound, and Southwest Airlines, even though the first two is cheaper and the third is often no more expensive.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Wonder if they'd ever add a run from Seattle to Bellingham, so many college kids go back and forth.

This is the first try for Bolt Bus outside of the Northeast. Based on what they do here, one might think they will try to service more stops.

I'm just wondering this, since the no-terminal issue came up earlier in the thread: Has Boltbus or Megabus (or the Chinatown operators) ever hit legal trouble surrounding the "lots of people blocking up a sidewalk" issue (either with some odd existing ordnance involving stopping somewhere other than a marked bus stop or with a threat of one in the face of complaints from, say, a shopping mall or local businesses)?

Yes Mega Bus had to move there sidewalk pick up location in Chicago. Boston also had the Chinatown Buses move to a bus terminal. Not sure if it was legal issues or been told in certain way, but both operators moved.

 

[Trogdor]

In Chicago, Megabus was moved because the block where they were stopping was already horribly congested with traffic, and Megabus just added to the problem and made it unbearable. There simply wasn't enough room for them with everything else that was already there.

They moved one block to the south, where there is plenty of room, and there really haven't been any issues with them being in the way.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

In Chicago, Megabus was moved because the block where they were stopping was already horribly congested with traffic, and Megabus just added to the problem and made it unbearable. There simply wasn't enough room for them with everything else that was already there.

They moved one block to the south, where there is plenty of room, and there really haven't been any issues with them being in the way.

The one block south puts there bus stop next to nothing. Only thing there is the roof over the CUS tracks, great location when it's a warm dry day. <_<

I have yet to see how it works in the rain, snow, ice, wind, cold, hot days.

 

[Trogdor]

I have yet to see how it works in the rain, snow, ice, wind, cold, hot days.

Well, given that Megabus has been there for several years now, and passengers continue to ride, the only conclusion I can think of is that it does, even if you can't see it.

 

[oldtimer]

In Chicago, Megabus was moved because the block where they were stopping was already horribly congested with traffic, and Megabus just added to the problem and made it unbearable. There simply wasn't enough room for them with everything else that was already there.

They moved one block to the south, where there is plenty of room, and there really haven't been any issues with them being in the way.

The "new" Megabus stop also took away all of the non-metered handicap parking near CUS. Now the city is planning to charge for handicap metered parking.

 

[CHamilton]

The Bolt Bus stop in Seattle has no shelter at all. It's at a public plaza outside the International District light rail station. And Fifth Avenue, the street shown, is quite busy, so I wonder how long it will be before the city steps in.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

That Bolt Bus stop is awful just awful. They should really work on getting some STATIONS before they go too far.

 

[railiner]

In Chicago, Megabus was moved because the block where they were stopping was already horribly congested with traffic, and Megabus just added to the problem and made it unbearable. There simply wasn't enough room for them with everything else that was already there.

They moved one block to the south, where there is plenty of room, and there really haven't been any issues with them being in the way.

Here in NYC, Megabus has been bounced around by orders of the city due to this issue. Everywhere they go, their crowds have 'worn out there welcome', with most businesses and nearby residences effected by the crowding, and debris left behind. They are currently spread over several different streets, some in area's away from businesses and residences.

 

[guest]

Here in Richmond, VA, the Megabuses--there are around 14 of the daily--stop under the I-95 overpass, in the parking lot between Main and Cary Sts., right across from Main Street Station. I'll admit that I take Megabus more often now than Amtrak when I travel from Richmond to Washington or New York. Comparing prices, an Amtrak ticket on 66 RVM-NYP starts at $63 low-bucket, whereas typically the Megabus costs me around $35, sometimes less if I book early. I'm poor, and traveling on Amtrak is something I consider to be a luxury.

Interestingly, this week, due to scheduling I returned from New York not by Megabus, buy by Greyhound. The ticket, bought online, cost me $41.99, one-way, nonstop. Now while the Megabus portion between NY-DC is typically full, on Greyhound, the bus was half empty and I got a seat-pair to myself. This was one reason I initially switched from Greyhound to Megabus: crowding issues. (Well, that and the surly attitudes of some of the Greyhound ticket agents,drivers, and baggage handlers towards their customers.) It leads me to believe that Greyhound really is losing customers to Mega/Bolt/DC Express/Chinese, which is helpful, I suppose, to the regular traveler looking for a little extra room on Greyhound once in a while.

I should add that whenever I travel, I typically only do so on about one-week notice. So I think regular Amtrak riders, at least on the NEC, know that Amtrak ticket prices definitely climb into the higher buckets within such a short period. Right now for a trip ten days away RVM-NYP, the coach price is $85, whereas the equivalent overnight trip on Megabus is only $27.00. There is no question of which one to take, for someone like me who is a serious budget restriction yet needs to travel frequently between these points. I can't afford Amtrak prices, and I can't afford to stay home, so I'll put up with a cramped overnight bus ride with a 3.5-hour late-night transfer in Washington in order to get to where it is that I have to go.

 

[Donctor]

In Chicago, Megabus was moved because the block where they were stopping was already horribly congested with traffic, and Megabus just added to the problem and made it unbearable. There simply wasn't enough room for them with everything else that was already there.

They moved one block to the south, where there is plenty of room, and there really haven't been any issues with them being in the way.

The "new" Megabus stop also took away all of the non-metered handicap parking near CUS. Now the city is planning to charge for handicap metered parking.

It's also a pain if you're trying to catch CTA on the southeast corner. I've been harassed by Megabus passengers multiple times. Regardless of what they say, the shelter at the CTA stop is not the place to be selling drugs. Or changing clothes. Regardless of how late your Megabus bus is.

On weekdays, CTA operators frequently can't see the stop because the Megabuses are in the way. And, in my experience, if an operator does see someone in the shelter, they assume it's a Megabus passenger and don't bother stopping.

 

[Donctor]

That Bolt Bus stop is awful just awful. They should really work on getting some STATIONS before they go too far.

Why should they work on getting stations?