Main CZ #5 & 6 Discussion Thread

[John-MCPO-USN]

Not a lot of domestic flying fans on here John! First choice would be to check on rebboking the SWC CHI-LAX/CS LAX-SEA. Second would be to "fly"( a four letter word here!) Chicago-Denver, ride the Zephyr to SAC, the best scenery is between Denver and Sacramento!!! I wouldnt drive that trip, but it would beat Cancelling the rest of a "Dream Trip"! Check it out on Amsnag or Amtrak.com and try to rebbok the CHI-LAX-SEA portion!

I hateeee flying.....but, looking at my options----I think I really only have 2:

1. Since #5 is running from DEN to SAC, and a Southwest flight from Midway to Denver is only $115 bucks, I could just fly to DEN....spend 2 days in Denver----then, continue my journey.

2. Or, since I added a 2 day buffer in SEA to see friends/family.....I could drop one day off from SEA and add it to LA - - do the SWC from CHI to LA, stay 1 night (since the connection to #14 is tight----like 120min), then continue with my journey to SEA.

You are correct----driving is out.....just to far and not enough time (and to much extra money).

I'm calling AMTRAK in the morning to see what they offer (as far as a refund for the sleeper portion from CHI to DEN......since I am on a rail pass, I don't expect any refund of the rail fare (just the sleeper)......we'll see.

And, I agree with you-----the scenery from DEN to SAC is the best part of the entire trip.

John

 

[George B]

I find this hard to believe. The Chicago-Denver section is the heaviest used portion of the route. Breaking the route in two would seem to be self defeating. and running the Chi end of the train less than daily? The Zephyr's current problems are caused by an act of nature, not some inherent problem with the route.

I don't know what your sources are smoking, but it must be some pretty heavy stuff.

I find it hard to believe, too. But Amtrak makes decisions that baffle me all of the time. It could just be a threat designed to stir up the politics of the route. It’s been a very bad year for the CZ, and perhaps some of the powers-that-be are threatening to throw in the towel. I have said it a million times…..politics allows Amtrak’s LD trains to exist, not ridership. Right now, they don’t have the equipment and a reliable route to run the full train. In 30 days, they should have the equipment back, but the route will only be a little better than it is now.

It’s a shame, and I hope they are not serious about cutting the route in half. I’ve got three more trips on the CZ this year, and one was already cancelled for the end of September. I figured that at least one of the trips in November or December would get cancelled because of weather. So, now I am just hoping to get in at least one trip.

 

[RailFanLNK]

Well, I hope its all just "rumor". We are taking the Zephyr to Chicago on Friday September 30th for our first taste of "Big 10" football games. We are meeting up with my stepdaughter from the University of Minnesota and my stepson from Las Vegas NV. We are either meeting up in CHI or Madison. We plan on a rental car out of MKE to Madison. I have been pushing taking the train to Big 10 games to anyone who will listen. I just hope our "first" game isn't cancelled (Amtrak wise) and that it all ends up ok. I don't care if we are late, I've already expected that but to cancel the whole route would just be a travesty.

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

John -- I feel your pain on the release of this news today. As soon as I read the 10/1 restoration date over on TO, my mind began to race as I too have an origin-to-terminus trip on the CZ that falls in the middle of my journey. I decided on doing the air bridge between Chicago and Denver so I could still enjoy the majority of the CZ trip through the Rockies/Sierras. When I called Amtrak this evening to book the new DEN to EMY segment, I was a bit startled to hear that there was literally one room left (#19) in the Transition Sleeper for the day of travel I needed to keep the rest of the trip intact.

Definitely call first thing tomorrow as I imagine many people like us are scrambling to rejigger their plans. Good luck to you, and please post back about how it all turned out. -Jeff

 

[anir dendroica]

I have to assume that Amtrak has finally run up against a wall in terms of equipment shortage, and that they need most of the cars from the derailed train in Nebraska in order to resume service on the full route. Most of those cars likely have minor damage which can be repaired within a month. I could understand canceling due to the flooding but to operate through the worst of it and then stop just when it is about to get better (BNSF St. Joseph sub is reopening in two days) seems pretty silly.

Mark

 

[trainviews]

I find this hard to believe. The Chicago-Denver section is the heaviest used portion of the route. Breaking the route in two would seem to be self defeating. and running the Chi end of the train less than daily? The Zephyr's current problems are caused by an act of nature, not some inherent problem with the route.

I don't know what your sources are smoking, but it must be some pretty heavy stuff.

I find it hard to believe, too. But Amtrak makes decisions that baffle me all of the time. It could just be a threat designed to stir up the politics of the route. It's been a very bad year for the CZ, and perhaps some of the powers-that-be are threatening to throw in the towel. I have said it a million times…..politics allows Amtrak's LD trains to exist, not ridership. Right now, they don't have the equipment and a reliable route to run the full train. In 30 days, they should have the equipment back, but the route will only be a little better than it is now.

While I agree with politics running the LD's, I really think that suggestion would be getting the priorities wrong between one-route-small-politics and overall political goals. Strategically Amtrak's goal should be to be as relevant a transportation opportunity to as many people as possible. Looking at the CZ route west of Denver a very large part of the riders are probably there for the famously scenic ride. East of Denver it caters to a much broader set of transportation needs, connecting several reasonably close population centers. The higher demand is a function of this.

Now cutting the eastern part wholly or partly will dump that segment of riders. Even a tri-weekly would be largely irrelevant to any other riders than people on a flexible holiday schedule. And while they might keep to fill the remaining train, many of them are not locals and holidays can have many destinations. There's not much "need to have". On the other hand people going home on weekend from college or visiting Granny on an overnight stop will probably travel anyway, but have to find other, less convenient or more expensive options. Amtrak will just make itself irrelevant to a whole new part of the country, and that is long term very dangerous for political support. But then again Amtrak has been doing a lot of "one congressman happy at a time"-politics over the years, leading to some of the absurdities of the current system...

And on another note: a strategy to get more tri-weeklies is plain stupid too. They are impossible to run economically, and it would be begging to get a cost recovery ratio on par with the abysmal SSL or Cardinal. And cost recovery does matter politically too as well as economically...

 

[John-MCPO-USN]

John -- I feel your pain on the release of this news today. As soon as I read the 10/1 restoration date over on TO, my mind began to race as I too have an origin-to-terminus trip on the CZ that falls in the middle of my journey. I decided on doing the air bridge between Chicago and Denver so I could still enjoy the majority of the CZ trip through the Rockies/Sierras. When I called Amtrak this evening to book the new DEN to EMY segment, I was a bit startled to hear that there was literally one room left (#19) in the Transition Sleeper for the day of travel I needed to keep the rest of the trip intact.

Definitely call first thing tomorrow as I imagine many people like us are scrambling to rejigger their plans. Good luck to you, and please post back about how it all turned out. -Jeff

Jeff

Heeding your advice and my plans to call AMTRAK this AM-----I did, and it was a pleasant experience. I was on hold for like < 30secs....and the CSR was extremely helpful. She refunded the CHI-DEN sleeper portion ($119), and stated that my sleeper on #5 from DEN to SAC was not at risk (they still held it), until AMTRAK talked with me. Since I am already paid for the sleeper, AMTRAK did not cancel it from DEN-SAC, without talking with me first.

So, I am doing the "air-bridge" from CHI MIDWAY to DEN (looks like there is a CHI METRO stop at Midway---so, I should be able to get from Union Station to the Airport with ease), and spending 2 nights in Denver. Southwest flies from MIDWAY to DEN for $99 to $115 bucks, so it is very do-able, I just have to make up the costs of staying in Denver for two nights (looking at the Residence Inn downtown), and having to make the walk to the temporary station.

Yes, it is an inconvience----and I hate flying.....but maybe it is a blessing in disguise, because with all the disruptions on #5, I don't think I had a good chance of seeing the Rockies with all the delays......now, I am pretty certain that #5 will run on time and will get to enjoy the scenery.

I might rent a car for that one day in Denver, and railfan the Moffat Road.......I haven't done that since 1993!

John

 

[MrFSS]

So, I am doing the "air-bridge" from CHI MIDWAY to DEN (looks like there is a CHI METRO stop at Midway

From Union Station in Chicago - walk east to the El Orange Line at the loop. It goes right to Midway Airport. I don't think METRA (you said METRO) goes to Midway.

 

[pennyk]

John, I did the almost identical trip August/September 2010 (except from Orlando, but on the same trains). I am looking back and am very grateful that I did that trip last year instead of this year - which would have been a mess due to hurricane cancellations and the CZ issues. I feel your pain!!

 

[yarrow]

it is sure too bad for folks who have trips planned. as my wife says "that's the problem with amtrak. you are never sure they will get you to your destination or if they will get you home." amtrak has lost credibility as a transportation company. they are a train ride company like the narrow gague tourist lines in colorado. though with worse otp.

 

[amamba]

it is sure too bad for folks who have trips planned. as my wife says "that's the problem with amtrak. you are never sure they will get you to your destination or if they will get you home." amtrak has lost credibility as a transportation company. they are a train ride company like the narrow gague tourist lines in colorado. though with worse otp.

I find service to be incredibly reliable, convenient and on time when traveling to NYC from BOS/PVD. I do it almost once a month. I think they are a very reliable transportation company.

 

[cirdan]

I'm booked to ride the train in November. I hope everything will be back to normal by then.

 

[DEN Trails & Rails]

Date: Friday, 2 Sept. 2011, 8:30 am, MDT

Here is the press release from Amtrak, about the resumption of CZ train service, or rather some CZ service...

Peter Richards

-----Original Message-----

From: Amtrak Media Relations <[email protected]>

Sent: Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:29 pm

Subject: Amtrak News Release: SOME AMTRAK CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR SERVICE TO RESUME

The following news release is issued today by Amtrak Media Relations. It will

be available soon in the News & Media Section of Amtrak.com.

____________________________________________________________________________

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

September 1, 2011

ATK-11-118

Contact: Marc Magliari

312 880.5390

SOME AMTRAK CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR SERVICE TO RESUME

Trains 5 & 6 to operate between California and Colorado this weekend

CHICAGO - Daily service by the Amtrak California Zephyr between San Francisco

Bay Area and Denver will resume this weekend, effective with the departure of

eastbound Train 6 from Emeryville, Calif., on Sept. 3, and the westbound Train 5

from Denver on Sept. 4.

Direct train service between Denver and Chicago will continue to be suspended

between Fort Morgan, Colo., and Burlington, Iowa, until a date to be announced

later this month. The BNSF Railway Co. continues to make repairs to massive

flood damage near Omaha that had led to a detour route resulting in lengthy

delays to Amtrak service across Nebraska and Iowa.

Amtrak service for the full California Zephyr route has been suspended since

Aug. 26, when a portion of a construction crane at a grain elevator obstructed

the BNSF Railway Co., tracks and caused an Amtrak train to become disabled near

Benkelman, Neb. That suspension allowed Amtrak to deploy equipment and crews to

resume this limited California Zephyr service.

Amtrak regrets any inconvenience. Passengers who have paid for travel on

canceled trains can contact Amtrak to receive refunds without fee or penalty or

can rebook for future travel. If tickets have not yet printed, the

refund/rebook can be done on Amtrak.com or the free Amtrak iPhone "app."

About Amtrak®:

Celebrating 40 years of dedicated service as America's Railroad(sm), Amtrak is

the nation's intercity passenger rail provider and its only high-speed rail

operator. A record 28.7 million passengers traveled on Amtrak in FY 2010 on

more than 300 daily trains - at speeds up to 150 mph (241 kph) - that connect 46

states, the District of Columbia and three Canadian Provinces. Amtrak operates

trains in partnership with 15 states and four commuter rail agencies. Amtrak

also is a strong financial performer achieving an 85 percent cost-recovery ratio

in FY 2010. Enjoy the journey(sm) at Amtrak.com or call 800-USA-RAIL for

schedules, fares and more information. Join us on facebook.com/Amtrak and

follow us at twitter.com/Amtrak

# # #

 

[Trogdor]

Can we combine the three or four different Zephyr cancellation threads into one? Would be much easier to track.

 

[MrFSS]

Can we combine the three or four different Zephyr cancellation threads into one? Would be much easier to track.

Done - I agree - please post all CZ disruption info in this thread rather than starting new ones.

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

Jeff

Heeding your advice and my plans to call AMTRAK this AM-----I did, and it was a pleasant experience. I was on hold for like < 30secs....and the CSR was extremely helpful. She refunded the CHI-DEN sleeper portion ($119), and stated that my sleeper on #5 from DEN to SAC was not at risk (they still held it), until AMTRAK talked with me. Since I am already paid for the sleeper, AMTRAK did not cancel it from DEN-SAC, without talking with me first.

So, I am doing the "air-bridge" from CHI MIDWAY to DEN (looks like there is a CHI METRO stop at Midway---so, I should be able to get from Union Station to the Airport with ease), and spending 2 nights in Denver. Southwest flies from MIDWAY to DEN for $99 to $115 bucks, so it is very do-able, I just have to make up the costs of staying in Denver for two nights (looking at the Residence Inn downtown), and having to make the walk to the temporary station.

Yes, it is an inconvience----and I hate flying.....but maybe it is a blessing in disguise, because with all the disruptions on #5, I don't think I had a good chance of seeing the Rockies with all the delays......now, I am pretty certain that #5 will run on time and will get to enjoy the scenery.

I might rent a car for that one day in Denver, and railfan the Moffat Road.......I haven't done that since 1993!

John

I'm glad that your plans have recalibrated successfully. When I had the agent pull up my itinerary, I just assumed that my train had been canceled and asked her if I could still keep the same room # for DEN to EMY that I had scheduled for the full route. That's when she mentioned that there was only one room left, but based on your experience, maybe she was just not up to speed on whether my original room was still under my name for the DEN to EMY segment. She did mention that yesterday was full of new developments for them. Sensing urgency, I booked into the Trans Dorm which I have tended to enjoy on past trips so it all worked out in the end.

And I really hadn't given thought yet to the delay implications but that's a great point. We'll be well rested and ready at DEN for boarding and the train's timekeeping should be much better. If others contact Amtrak about their CZ plans for this month, please post your experiences here so we can see how the situation evolves.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I'm booked to ride the train in November. I hope everything will be back to normal by then.

Same here.

 

[michele swanson]

Hello...Michele, again. I just spoke w/Virginia @ Amtrak 800.872.7245. She told me they are no longer busing travellers around the IA-NE flood/track repair area, BUT rerouting instead. We can stay on the train for entire RT from CHI to GJT on 9/11-9/16. God Bless Virginia and Amtrak!!! Thanks for all of you assistance. This should be a good trip. Wonder what reroute they will take! Thanks again. Michele

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

Hello...Michele, again. I just spoke w/Virginia @ Amtrak 800.872.7245. She told me they are no longer busing travellers around the IA-NE flood/track repair area, BUT rerouting instead. We can stay on the train for entire RT from CHI to GJT on 9/11-9/16. God Bless Virginia and Amtrak!!! Thanks for all of you assistance. This should be a good trip. Wonder what reroute they will take! Thanks again. Michele

This doesn't make sense to me as Amtrak just put out a press release last night that cited the following:

Direct train service between Denver and Chicago will continue to be suspended

between Fort Morgan, Colo., and Burlington, Iowa, until a date to be announced

later this month. The BNSF Railway Co. continues to make repairs to massive

flood damage near Omaha that had led to a detour route resulting in lengthy

delays to Amtrak service across Nebraska and Iowa.

 

With GJT well past Denver, I'm pretty sure that this trip will not be possible for the rest of September. You may want to call back and get a second opinion.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Direct train service between Denver and Chicago will continue to be suspended between Fort Morgan, Colo., and Burlington, Iowa, until a date to be announced later this month.

 

Could this mean they're detouring the CHI - DEN portion of the train between these to stations and maybe only running to DEN and back (so as not to delay the DEN-EMY portion)? Just curious.

 

[NY Penn]

Why would they do that?

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

Direct train service between Denver and Chicago will continue to be suspended between Fort Morgan, Colo., and Burlington, Iowa, until a date to be announced later this month.

 

Could this mean they're detouring the CHI - DEN portion of the train between these to stations and maybe only running to DEN and back (so as not to delay the DEN-EMY portion)? Just curious.

If you do a test booking, you can see that CHI to DEN is SO for the rest of the month. I fear that Michele received misinformation from the agent, so hopefully she can call back and get things sorted.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Direct train service between Denver and Chicago will continue to be suspended between Fort Morgan, Colo., and Burlington, Iowa, until a date to be announced later this month.

 

Could this mean they're detouring the CHI - DEN portion of the train between these to stations and maybe only running to DEN and back (so as not to delay the DEN-EMY portion)? Just curious.

Now that you've read into it and highlighted key words, it starts to make sense. Amtrak has been losing a tonpot of money on folks missing connections because of late 5 and 6, and until the Omaha situation is cleared up, I can see them suspending all passenger stops between Denver and Burlington simply to try and stay on schedule. Maybe Amtrak has even cut a deal to reroute between those cities....

 

[DEN Trails & Rails]

Direct train service between Denver and Chicago will continue to be suspended between Fort Morgan, Colo., and Burlington, Iowa, until a date to be announced later this month.

 

Could this mean they're detouring the CHI - DEN portion of the train between these to stations and maybe only running to DEN and back (so as not to delay the DEN-EMY portion)? Just curious.

11:15 am, MDT, Friday. 2 Sept. 2011

According to what we have figured out here in the Denver area, there will be NO train service east of Denver, for a while...

Ft. Morgan is the first stop east of DEN, so they referred to that stop, rather than DEN. (strange...)

CZ will only operate between EMY and DEN, for now.

This is a very poorly worded press release...

Here is another issue, that the poorly worded press release does not make clear...

Are they deadheading a train to DEN (from where?) to head westbound on Sunday, 4 Sept. with an on time departure, of 8:05 am. ??
Or is train # 6, turning to # 5, on Sunday, which will make it already 12 hours late ?? The answer from what we can tell is...
 
The first CZ # 6, arriving at 6:40 pm, if on time, Sunday, will turn to the westbound # 5, leaving 12 hours late, around 8 pm.
 
So much for a nice daylight trip across the mountains, west of here.
 
Peter RIchards
 

 

[George B]

OK. Follow along with me……for the month of September:

All stops from, and including, EMY to DEN will have CZ service.

All stations from Fort Morgan to Burlington will not have CZ revenue service.

All stops from, and including, GBB to CHI will have service, but not necessarily the CZ.

Amtrak will still run trains from CHI to DEN from time to time, but these are for equipment and employee moves, and are not scheduled to be in revenue service.