Man falls from train!

[the_traveler]

My sister discovered a somewhat different way to fall from a train. This was way preAmtrak, mid 50s.

She was on Southern Railroad's "Pelican" traveling from Chattanooga to Tuscaloosa.She was headed back to the diner while stopped in Birmingham, not realizing the diner was removed in Birmingham.

They had failed to put up a sign or a flag or lock the door or whatever they were supposed to do to warn a passenger that a space between cars was about to open up.

She fell right through! She was not hurt. We should have sued though for some reason we did not.

What's stopping you now, Bill?

 

[oldtimer]

I'd like to point out a few points of interest on this subject.

The Superliner air circulation system is designed to maintain a slight positive pressure on the car. This is intended to keep outside air from leaking in, but it also results is difficulty in opening the side door if the window in the door is not opened first. It can be done but I would not expect to see a frail person to be able to do as the person in question was 27 so that is a possibility. Another fact of this positive pressure that if the door was left near the closed position the force of the air would close the door by itself.

The Superliner door also have a second manual latch at the top that must be opened before the door hand can open the door. This information points to a deliberate action to open the door in my opinion.

 

[me_little_me]

My sister discovered a somewhat different way to fall from a train. This was way preAmtrak, mid 50s.

She was on Southern Railroad's "Pelican" traveling from Chattanooga to Tuscaloosa.She was headed back to the diner while stopped in Birmingham, not realizing the diner was removed in Birmingham.

They had failed to put up a sign or a flag or lock the door or whatever they were supposed to do to warn a passenger that a space between cars was about to open up.

She fell right through! She was not hurt. We should have sued though for some reason we did not.

What's stopping you now, Bill?

:giggle:

He's so old, Bill can't remember who his attorney is. In fact, he has embellished it so much over the years, he forgot she actually tripped over the diner car of a friend's toy train. :giggle:

Or at least I think that was what happened. I'm to old to remember what you wrote!

 

[Michelle]

I am the cousin of the victim discussed, Jared Nilles. For some slight back story on the situation, we have yet to know what happened. He was VERY familiar with taking the trains and he had used the system quite a few times, so not being able to find the bathroom wouldn't make sense. He was traveling alone as far as we knew, his father saw him at the station before he left.

Oddly, after interview other passengers who had spoken to him before boarding there was no sign of him opening any door himself.

I my self am not knowledgable about the Amtrak trains, but from what I have heard is that it is not easy to open any door that leads externally.

 

[Michellee]

His belonging we ON THE TRAIN.

 

[meatpuff]

Let me tell you a story.

On June 22, 2008, I was riding the Lake Shore Limited from NYP to CHI. Somewhere in upstate New York, around 11:30 pm, we made a scheduled station stop. It was getting late and I had to call my dad about my ride the following day, and didn't want to disturb the other coach passengers with my phone call. So I was going to head to the lounge, right after this station stop, which was going to cause some noise and commotion anyway. I waited for the boarding passengers to find their seats, settle in and clear the aisle, and then got up and started walking forward on the train for the lounge. The train was back up to speed. I was dressed for bed (or sleep anyway, this is coach) and grabbed my phone, and left my eyeglasses.

It was a vestibule just before entering the lounge car. It's not clear to me now whether it was the rear vestibule of the lounge car (is there one?) or the forward vestibule of the last coach car. But as I walked through it looked like the train door was open on my left. I stopped and looked. I could see no door, and I could see the ground rushing by at 60 MPH at the bottom of stairs for boarding. I must have stood there for 10 seconds looking because I couldn't believe the door could have been left open, and also wasn't wearing my glasses. I considered whether my eyes were lying to me, but I decided that no, Amtrak didn't recently switch to all-glass doors, and yes, that definitely was the track bed rushing by at the bottom of the stairs, and yes, by the sound of the rush of air as well the door was definitely open. I then went on walking. I took my next step in a deliberate manner, having considered that continuing forward towards the lounge was safe, but taking my next step to my left would put me on the steps, and if I tripped on those I was through.

I walked into the lounge and facing me at the other end of the car was a middle aged guy with an Amtrak uniform sitting at one of the tables. I politely asked whether he was part of the train crew. He kind of snorted an affirmative answer, gesturing to his uniform. I said "I think you have a door open back there" and gestured back and beckoned as if he could follow me. Without a word, he hauled himself out of the booth, walked past me and continued out of sight into the vestibule. Several seconds later I heard a door slam shut. He reappeared and walked by me without any comment. I sat down, made my phone call, then went back to my seat and off to sleep.

 

[The Chief]

Updated story notes witness describing victim as "very intoxicated," and victim's father stating son had a drinking problem.

Interestingly, LEOs filed affidavit requesting cellphone records in effort to match calls/texts with times/towers in attempt to re-create his last minutes. Witness noted vic was texting also.

 

[Cascadia]

Updated story notes witness describing victim as "very intoxicated," and victim's father stating son had a drinking problem.

Interestingly, LEOs filed affidavit requesting cellphone records in effort to match calls/texts with times/towers in attempt to re-create his last minutes. Witness noted vic was texting also.

I read about this story yesterday at the City-Data.com forum for North Dakota. The young man had so much going for him, he was doing all this work with youth in a small town for a summer theater program and they liked him so well, and he was involved in so many other film projects and a lot of good creative stuff with good friends.

His father said his son was headed to Chicago to start a new life and trying to shake a drinking problem, when I read that it made me really sad.

And yeah, all his luggage was left on the train. I don't think they have autopsy reports yet. It seems like a really tragic loss of life, alcohol can really take the final toll.

 

[Simon]

If he fell from opening the passenger door on a moving train, this would be similar to what happened to the woman who fell from the AutoTrain. If this happens this frequently, perhaps there needs to be a safety design improvement on the Superliners. Manual locking of each door would be too cumbersome to implement. A retrofit of a central control lock system for all doors could be expensive.

One self-contained solution could be to hook up an accelerometer detector circuit and have the door automatically lock at speeds above 10 mph. Of course, there would need to be an override for safety in case of emergencies in case the accelerometer lock mechanism jams or fails, but the override can be a several step lever turning process that prevents anyone from accidentally opening the door.

I'll have to check the Next Generation bi-level car specification to see if it says anything about door opening safety requirements.

This potential retrofit system would appear not to be legal (even though taxis use something like it). It would have three major drawbacks:

1. the engineer could start the train with one or more doors still open;
   
2. there would be no way of stopping someone opening a door not adjacent to a platform; and
   
3. someone could open a door if a train was stopped at a signal.
   

I'm surprised the OSHA and FRA haven't mandated central locking yet. It's been required in the UK since 2002 precisely because there were a few fatalities a year caused by people falling out of moving trains.

On many UK trains the only control is that the conductor can open or unlock either a single door or all doors on one side, so it would still be possible to open a door that isn't adjacent to a platform. Presumably this is unacceptable in the USA, at least for new systems. Some newer UK trains have a GPS-based system which only allows doors adjacent to a platform face to open, though the accuracy of GPS positioning seems inadequate for this to really be suitable and balises would be needed to augment the GPS. Not sure if the freight railroads would be happy with Amtrak fitting balises willy-nilly.

 

[johnny.menhennet]

Updated story notes witness describing victim as "very intoxicated," and victim's father stating son had a drinking problem.

Interestingly, LEOs filed affidavit requesting cellphone records in effort to match calls/texts with times/towers in attempt to re-create his last minutes. Witness noted vic was texting also.

I read about this story yesterday at the City-Data.com forum for North Dakota. The young man had so much going for him, he was doing all this work with youth in a small town for a summer theater program and they liked him so well, and he was involved in so many other film projects and a lot of good creative stuff with good friends.

His father said his son was headed to Chicago to start a new life and trying to shake a drinking problem, when I read that it made me really sad.

And yeah, all his luggage was left on the train. I don't think they have autopsy reports yet. It seems like a really tragic loss of life, alcohol can really take the final toll.

I know this thread is old, but since it is active, I might as well comment.

Are you sure the man was heading to Chicago? From what it sounds like, he got on at Fargo in the direction of Grand Forks. If the conductor had collected the ticket, wouldn't he have know then man was traveling the wrong way?

 

[George Harris]

This potential retrofit system would appear not to be legal (even though taxis use something like it). It would have three major drawbacks:
the engineer could start the train with one or more doors still open;

Thia ia or was standard, with the conductor standing at the open door, usually until clear of the platform.

there would be no way of stopping someone opening a door not adjacent to a platform;

Not really that big an issue with low platforms. In fact within the last year I and a few others dropped from door to ballast because the car we were in was beyond the platform.

someone could open a door if a train was stopped at a signal.

I don't think this is considered as being an issue of any significance.

I'm surprised the OSHA and FRA haven't mandated central locking yet. It's been required in the UK since 2002 precisely because there were a few fatalities a year caused by people falling out of moving trains.

The whole issue is considered a non-problem. The British cars with doors opening outward (are any of these still being used) have never existed in the US/Canada. In general, doors open inward. Some slide, but none open outward. There has also never been any such thing as the non-corridor coach here. I can easily see central locking causing more problems than it would solve. What happens if you need to open the door and you cannot get the central locking system to release?

On many UK trains the only control is that the conductor can open or unlock either a single door or all doors on one side, so it would still be possible to open a door that isn't adjacent to a platform. Presumably this is unacceptable in the USA, at least for new systems. Some newer UK trains have a GPS-based system which only allows doors adjacent to a platform face to open, though the accuracy of GPS positioning seems inadequate for this to really be suitable and balises would be needed to augment the GPS. Not sure if the freight railroads would be happy with Amtrak fitting balises willy-nilly.

That all or one system appear to be the norm here where the conductor controls all the doors from a single position. See what I said above.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

on METRA the conductor opens and closes all the doors from one car.

 

[X]

The FRA is not particularly worried about people falling out of cars, in fact they're a lot more concerned with them being able to get out unimpeded in an emergency.

Which is why the Superliner doors aren't kept locked, even though they all have mortise locks that accept the standard Amtrak coach key.

 

[SarahZ]

The FRA is not particularly worried about people falling out of cars, in fact they're a lot more concerned with them being able to get out unimpeded in an emergency.

Which is why the Superliner doors aren't kept locked, even though they all have mortise locks that accept the standard Amtrak coach key.

The owners of the former Iroquois Theatre in Chicago are inclined to agree with you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois_Theatre_fire

 

[afigg]

Saw this link on TO to an update news story about the findings of the police investigation into the passenger that fell from the EB. His death was ruled an accident, but there were some findings. The autopsy found a blood-alcohol level of 0.37. Yikes. He was apparently trying to smoke a cigarette, so he probably opened the door for the air. Stupid way to go.