MBTA (Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority) discussion

[Metra Electric Rider]

One of my friends works for a Boston based company (and lived there for about two years) and just told me that the Ashmont branch of the red line is going to be shut down for two weeks and are telling them to WFH (Work From Home) or use shuttle busses (now I'm not sure if that was the company advising or the T).

 

[Bostontoallpoints]

One of my friends works for a Boston based company (and lived there for about two years) and just told me that the Ashmont branch of the red line is going to be shut down for two weeks and are telling them to WFH or use shuttle busses (now I'm not sure if that was the company advising or the T).

Shuttle UPCOMING
Shuttle buses replace Red Line service between Ashmont and JFK/UMass from October 14-29 due to track work. Riders can also take Fairmount Commuter Rail service for free during this diversion. Read about other transit options here: MBTA.com/RLWork

 

[joelkfla]

One of my friends works for a Boston based company (and lived there for about two years) and just told me that the Ashmont branch of the red line is going to be shut down for two weeks and are telling them to WFH or use shuttle busses (now I'm not sure if that was the company advising or the T).

What's WFH?

 

[daybeers]

What's WFH?

Work From Home

 

[Fenway]

https://www.universalhub.com/2023/new-mega-green-line-cars-will-be-somber-dont-mess

The new Type 10 cars, to be built by CAF USA under an $811-millon contract awarded last fall will be 40 feet longer than current trolley cars, have "low-floor boarding" and wider doors for people with mobility issues and be equipped with state-of-the-art crash-safety systems and an enclosed driver area to keep riders from bothering or attacking drivers.

The contract will pay for 100 of the stretch trolleys, which will have multiple bendy pivots, unlike the current trolleys, which have one or two.

 

[joelkfla]

"The contract will pay for 100 of the stretch trolleys, which will have multiple bendy pivots, unlike the current trolleys, which have one or two."

Is that a technical term?

 

[BlackDiamond]

The contract will pay for 100 of the stretch trolleys, which will have multiple bendy pivots, unlike the current trolleys, which have one or two.

There are currently 199 active cars (type 7, 8, and 9) on the system (not counting the Mattapan PCCs) so I am assuming that one Type 10 replaces two of the older cars. I was hoping they would expand the fleet to allow for increasing frequency and/or possible extensions such as the E line to Hyde Sq.

 

[Fenway]

The Three Stooges would be pleased









https://www.wcvb.com/article/mbta-green-line-extension-track-defects-investigation/45586525

BOSTON —
More than half of both branches of the MBTA's Green Line Extension in Cambridge, Medford and Somerville, Massachusetts require additional repairs after officials discovered incorrect widths between the track rails, General Manager Phil Eng announced on Thursday.

The Green Line Extension project cost $2.3 billion and was opened in late 2022.


Eng, who was not leading the MBTA at the time the Green Line Extension was opened last year, said that a review has revealed that issues with the width of the track were first observed and addressed in April 2021.

 

[Fenway]

Eng has had it

 

[joelkfla]

Eng has had it

No mention of Eng in this piece. To the contrary, in a Boston Globe article published today, "[Governor] Healey lauded Eng for uncovering what happened and 'taking swift action to hold people accountable...' "

 

[Fenway]

No mention of Eng in this piece. To the contrary, in a Boston Globe article published today, "[Governor] Healey lauded Eng for uncovering what happened and 'taking swift action to hold people accountable...' "

We always knew the culture of the T was the core issue but this is unbelievable.

Charlie Baker wanted it open so he could cut the ribbon and it seems his people were content to let the new people deal with it.

 

[Fenway]

https://www.bostonherald.com/2023/1...-repairs-eng-says/?share=rptbkntnwbognakicnit

Jim Conroy, a political spokesperson for former Gov. Charlie Baker, said the governor’s office was “never informed” of the track issues with the Green Line Extension.

“Gov. Baker hopes the MBTA and the contractors involved will address these issues as soon as possible. The Green Line Extension project was on track to never get built when the Baker-Polito Administration first took office and while these setbacks are massively inconvenient for riders, the project itself will deliver enormous benefits for the greater Boston area for decades to come,” Conroy said in a statement to the Herald.

Asked if he thought the Baker administration kept issues with the Green Line Extension quiet for political reasons, Eng said he does “not have any indication of that.”

“All I know is that I believe the team could have been more proactive and should have been more proactive,” he said.

 

[BlackDiamond]

You would think that building railroad tracks to the correct gauge, something we have been doing in this country for nearly 200 years, would be straightforward.

Perhaps the contactor involved was inexperienced? Budget pressure may have resulted in accepting low bids from minimally qualified contractors. Then this being Massachusetts, there is always the possibility that selection was based on political connections rather than competency. Not saying that is the case here but one wonders.

 

[Bostontoallpoints]

You would think that building railroad tracks to the correct gauge, something we have been doing in this country for nearly 200 years, would be straightforward.

Perhaps the contactor involved was inexperienced? Budget pressure may have resulted in accepting low bids from minimally qualified contractors. Then this being Massachusetts, there is always the possibility that selection was based on political connections rather than competency. Not saying that is the case here but one wonders.

Cost $2.28 Billion for 4.3 miles of track. What were the higher bids?

 

[Tlcooper44]

You would think that building railroad tracks to the correct gauge, something we have been doing in this country for nearly 200 years, would be straightforward.

Perhaps the contactor involved was inexperienced? Budget pressure may have resulted in accepting low bids from minimally qualified contractors. Then this being Massachusetts, there is always the possibility that selection was based on political connections rather than competency. Not saying that is the case here but one wonders.

America is not really good at building railroads. we don’t do it very often, so we shouldn’t expect to be good at it.

 

[BlackDiamond]

America is not really good at building railroads. we don’t do it very often, so we shouldn’t expect to be good at it.

We don't build many new railroads anymore but tracks get upgraded constantly. For example CSX is currently upgrading many of the main lines of the former Pan Am it just acquired which involves laying many miles if continuously welded rail. Presumably this is all being laid with the correct gauge

 

[jis]

We don't build many new railroads anymore but tracks get upgraded constantly. For example CSX is currently upgrading many of the main lines of the former Pan Am it just acquired which involves laying many miles if continuously welded rail. Presumably this is all being laid with the correct gauge

AFAIR CSX has never had an "out of gauge" problem in any significant way. Of course when there is a heat kink all bets are off on gauge too. CSX's big problem a while back was insufficient ballast bed as they were skimping on ballast. They slowly corrected this after the Crescent City derailment of the Auto Train and a few derailments of their own, that cause FRA to get on their case. Now their tracks have healthy amount of ballast.

 

[Tlcooper44]

We don't build many new railroads anymore but tracks get upgraded constantly. For example CSX is currently upgrading many of the main lines of the former Pan Am it just acquired which involves laying many miles if continuously welded rail. Presumably this is all being laid with the correct gauge

Compared to the amount of rail-work that goes on in countries around the world, especially those with good passenger systems, we do very little in comparison.

Moreover, we're comparing public to private - the public does not build frequently enough to retain knowledge and expertise to a useful level; at least it seems that way to me, though I could be wrong.

 

[Brian Battuello]

I read somewhere that the wooden ties were provided pre-made with the metal rail attachments in place. Either the manufacturer didn't understand the specs, or perhaps they were supplied with a slightly different model plate that had different spacing. In any case, it should have been caught after only a few were made, or at least when the first few were installed.

 

[Brian Battuello]

Meanwhile, for two days in a row they have had some sort of catenary failure on the Green Line that required passengers to leave the train and walk off the tracks. The first failure was on the new Green Line extension, and the second was between Kenmore and Park street stations.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/10...on-green-line-second-day-row/?s_campaign=8315
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/10...ct-green-line-extension-woes/?s_campaign=8315

 

[Fenway]

 

[George Harris]

I read somewhere that the wooden ties were provided pre-made with the metal rail attachments in place. Either the manufacturer didn't understand the specs, or perhaps they were supplied with a slightly different model plate that had different spacing. In any case, it should have been caught after only a few were made, or at least when the first few were installed.

Possible answer in what is said here: There is such a thing as a plate gauge, similar to the concept of a rail gauge which is used to check the distance between inside faces of the rail head. One form of plate gauge is set to check the distance between inside rail seats of the tie plates. This is what would be used if ties are preplated. If you use a gauge intended for plates under 132 or 136 pound rails it will result in the plates being set too close if the rail is 115 pound rail. 115RE rail has a 5 1/2 inch wide base. The 115RE rail is the most commonly used rail in transit systems in most of the US. 132RE, 136RE, 140RE, 141RE have 6 inch wide bases, so the gauge will be 1/4 inch tight if the wrong tie plate gauge is used. The problem is slightly, but not sufficiently lessened because 115RE rail has a 2 23/32 inch wide head and the other sections have 3 inch wide heads. This would back things up right at 1/8 inch, which should result in near insignificant gauge narrowing. However, it could be that Boston is using a smaller rail in their transit systems. I do not know. For example, the New York subway uses a 100 lb/yard section.
Incidentally, in the track picture above, the ties spacing looks extremely low for a streetcar track. My guess would be that it is in the range of 21 inches. For streetcars, a spacing in the range of 24 to 30 inches makes more sense. (A good wood tie should last 40 plus years under streetcar tracks in the Boston area climate.)

 

[Fenway]

meanwhile

 

[John Santos]

The first video claims they traced the cause to using a track measuring device (confusingly called a "gauge") that was too short by the thickness of a credit card. Elsewhere I've seen very consistent information that the tracks are supposed to be standard gauge (4' 8 1/2") and the permissible variation in the contract is plus or minus 1/16", and also the extreme slow orders earlier this month were due to the track being narrower than 4' 1/8" or at least 3/8 inches too narrow and thus out of spec by at least 5/16". No way I would want half a dozen credit cards in my wallet that total almost 2 inches thick!

Why do they lie? They won't really impress people who don't understand measurements, and they totally PO people who do.

 

[JamesWhitcombRiley]

The first video claims they traced the cause to using a track measuring device (confusingly called a "gauge") that was too short by the thickness of a credit card. Elsewhere I've seen very consistent information that the tracks are supposed to be standard gauge (4' 8 1/2") and the permissible variation in the contract is plus or minus 1/16", and also the extreme slow orders earlier this month were due to the track being narrower than 4' 1/8" or at least 3/8 inches too narrow and thus out of spec by at least 5/16". No way I would want half a dozen credit cards in my wallet that total almost 2 inches thick!

Why do they lie? They won't really impress people who don't understand measurements, and they totally PO people who do.

Another forum says the repair involves pulling up the spikes and filling the holes with epoxy before re-spiking, and it's a standard process. There's a track machine that does the epoxy job. I've never considered that when re-positioning a door jamb strike plate, so that's good to know. I would have though wood and rigid epoxy were too dissimilar.

The lying may have been in the record keeping over time. One of the managers said it was always tight. George Harris a few posts up has a good explanation of bad plate placement at the manufacturer.

Whoever was in the video should have said Charlie Card, not credit card! I looked up the thickness of a credit card, probably the same. It's 0.76mm, or just shy of 1/64".

I have one more theory: the tightness caused some spikes to loosen, then rock back due to rail forces from adjacent tie plates. That might account for measurement inconsistencies over time, even narrowing? They should epoxy both sides if so. I've been wrong before, on this very thread!