MBTA (Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority) discussion

[Fenway]

The MBTA on Thursday disclosed yet another problem in the troubled rollout of its new subway cars, saying it is taking its new-model Orange Line cars — 64 in all — out of service after a brake unit in one car malfunctioned.

https://www.nbcboston.com/on-air/as...NOmkpGgxBF50G8cyUoCxJtUIUTAhc-dHd-AyiydqqiE6w


I'm beginning to think most of the problems stem from the MBTA, not CRRC.

 

[west point]

One of two items. Either it is CRRC and the ability to cut corners. Maybe it is MBTA not taking the cars thru a rigorous testing program. Did any of the cars go to Pueblo?

 

[Fenway]

One of two items. Either it is CRRC and the ability to cut corners. Maybe it is MBTA not taking the cars thru a rigorous testing program. Did any of the cars go to Pueblo?

I believe only the first trainset in the order that was fully assembled in China went to Colorado. Since then the shells of the cars are made in China and sent to Springfield, MA for assembly and then sent to Boston.

The T has a legacy of being burnt by the low bidders on procurement contracts.

The CRRC cars just seem cheap compared to new cars I have ridden in Chicago, Montreal, and Toronto, and 20 years from now Boston may be forced to replace these cars.

 

[daybeers]

The T has a legacy of being burnt by the low bidders on procurement contracts.

No, they have a history of burning themselves on low bidders of procurement contracts.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

back already, New Orange line trains back in service after MBTA identifies braking problem

 

[MARC Rider]

back already, New Orange line trains back in service after MBTA identifies braking problem

I hope they fixed the problem before they put the cars back in service.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

https://www.wcvb.com/article/mbta-o...ie2n_v6psyW8fdUfPbfXA8ZgnLWRG7Ns4qUxHRDS47Ops
read and find out.

 

[west point]

Speculation: Someone forgot to torque the first or last bolt?

 

[Dutchrailnut]

nope wrong bolt.

 

[Fenway]

The Federal Transit Administration on Wednesday issued a preliminary report concerning safety issues on the T. One stunning revelation is that dispatchers are working 20-hour shifts, off for 4, and then work another 20 hours. Link to the FTA directives below.

=
https://www.transit.dot.gov/regulations-and-programs/safety/fta-special-directive-22-8
2 local news reports



​

 

[Bob Dylan]

The Federal Transit Administration on Wednesday issued a preliminary report concerning safety issues on the T. One stunning revelation is that dispatchers are working 20-hour shifts, off for 4, and then work another 20 hours. Link to the FTA directives below.

=
https://www.transit.dot.gov/regulations-and-programs/safety/fta-special-directive-22-8
2 local news reports



​

Is this Legal?

 

[Fenway]

That didn't take long

https://www.mbta.com/news/2022-06-1...=news&utm_source=homepage&utm_term=green-line

 

[BlackDiamond]

That didn't take long

https://www.mbta.com/news/2022-06-1...=news&utm_source=homepage&utm_term=green-line

That work including the train protection system had been planned for some time.

 

[Fenway]

The T announced on Friday that starting Monday that the 3 heavy rail lines will reduce weekday service to a Saturday schedule because of a shortage of dispatchers.

https://www.mbta.com/news/2022-06-17/subway-service-changes-take-effect-monday-june-20

 

[Fenway]

The T announced on Friday that starting Monday that the 3 heavy rail lines will reduce weekday service to a Saturday schedule because of a shortage of dispatchers.

https://www.mbta.com/news/2022-06-17/subway-service-changes-take-effect-monday-june-20

It is not playing well on local media



https://www.nbcboston.com/news/loca...le-all-summer-amid-mbta-safety-probe/2750674/
https://whdh.com/news/mbta-adjusting-schedules-for-summer-due-to-staff-shortage/
https://www.boston25news.com/news/l...e-starting-monday/4J2FAUHFBNEUJIX3CPBJLYDUGM/
It has taken decades of mismanagement to get to this point and back in 2009, the Commonwealth decided the best way to address and change the culture was to create a new Department of Transportation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_Department_of_Transportation#Mass_Transit_Division
Restoring commuter rail on the Old Colony Lines in 1997 and Greenbush in 2007 was expensive and the inner city service was neglected. Not including a North-South commuter rail connection when the Big Dig was built was a horrific misjudgment by the Dukakis administration which he candidly admits.

The T's main union for rank and file workers to this day buys commercial time on Boston TV



The madding thing is logical infrastructure improvements such as extending the Blue Line to Charles-MGH to connect with the Red Line which the major employer in the area wants keeps getting deferred.



It is frustrating

 

[BlackDiamond]

back in 2009, the Commonwealth decided the best way to address and change the culture was to create a new Department of Transportation.

Because adding a new layer of bureaucracy always makes things run better

 

[Fenway]

Because adding a new layer of bureaucracy always makes things run better

You look back at the history since the end of WWII and when the MTA took over from BERy in 1947 it was designed to protect transit in all of the suburbs adjacent to Boston with the exception of Winthrop.

The MTA got some things right most noticeably the extension of heavy rail to Wonderland and the light rail line to Riverside.

The first hint of trouble came in 1959 when the Southeast Expressway opened and the New Haven RR closed down the Old Colony Division a week later. The state legislature yawned.

However, when the Boston & Maine RR started to float the idea to eliminate commuter service to the north suburbs the legislature reacted and the MBTA was created in 1964.

There were missed opportunities 40/50 years ago

The Blue Line should have been extended to Lynn
The Red Line should have been extended to Lexington but Arlington wanted no part of it.
The Orange Line should have been extended to RTE to the south and Wakefield to the North.

I don't see any easy fix

 

[joelkfla]

You look back at the history since the end of WWII and when the MTA took over from BERy in 1947 it was designed to protect transit in all of the suburbs adjacent to Boston with the exception of Winthrop.

The MTA got some things right most noticeably the extension of heavy rail to Wonderland and the light rail line to Riverside.

The first hint of trouble came in 1959 when the Southeast Expressway opened and the New Haven RR closed down the Old Colony Division a week later. The state legislature yawned.

However, when the Boston & Maine RR started to float the idea to eliminate commuter service to the north suburbs the legislature reacted and the MBTA was created in 1964.

There were missed opportunities 40/50 years ago

The Blue Line should have been extended to Lynn
The Red Line should have been extended to Lexington but Arlington wanted no part of it.
The Orange Line should have been extended to RTE to the south and Wakefield to the North.

I don't see any easy fix

As an aside, I love the composition of that front page, with staggered photos and a prominent editorial cartoon. It's a layout editor's work of art. They don't make 'em like that anymore.

 

[BlackDiamond]

The first hint of trouble came in 1959 when the Southeast Expressway opened and the New Haven RR closed down the Old Colony Division a week later. The state legislature yawned.

As early as 1945 the Coolidge Commission had proposed replacing the Old Colony service with an extension of what is today the Red Line. THis finally came about in the late 1960s. There were ambitious proposals to go as far as Brockton but eventually Braintree became the furthest south extension.

The same commission also proposed some of the other extensions mentioned above such as Blue Line to Lynn which did not happen for the usual reasons i.e. money.

The Orange Line extension to the North was supposed to go all the way to Reading and the Hawker Siddley cars even had provision for adding pantographs as the extension would have used overhead a la the Blue Line. At the time (1960s - 1970s) commuter rail was considered on its way out and rapid transit extensions were the way to go. At some point this thinking became more practical and the realization that heavy rail was not a one size fits all solution to suburban commuting.

 

[Tlcooper44]

To me, Boston is a fascinating example of a catastrophe avoided.
The city was really set up to be a disaster due to Urban Renewal, and a slew of highways planned to replace rail lines, and to cut straight through the most vibrant neighbourhoods. Its a miracle so much of this was prevented. To think we almost lost the NEC/Orange Line, to be replaced by a planned i-695 is unthinkable today; but that was the reality back then.

The MBTA obviously is starved of cash, and it won't be improved until people start to recognize this. Otherwise, the ridership death spiral, exacerbated by covid, will continue.

The Orange Line extension to the North was supposed to go all the way to Reading and the Hawker Siddley cars even had provision for adding pantographs as the extension would have used overhead a la the Blue Line. At the time (1960s - 1970s) commuter rail was considered on its way out and rapid transit extensions were the way to go. At some point this thinking became more practical and the realization that heavy rail was not a one size fits all solution to suburban commuting.

That said, switching the purple line to an electrified regional rail approach with lighter EMU rolling stock could produce much the same results as rapid transit, with the added benefit of LD capabilities.

 

[Fenway]

https://www.nbcboston.com/investiga...2294/?_osource=newltr_v2_station_Hdlines_WBTS
The Red Line was the crown jewel of MBTA heavy rail.

The Pullman-Standard cars need to be retired NOW - They have served the community well and actually have outlasted the orginal cars that ran from 1912 to 1963 which were replaced by the the Pullman-Standard Bluebirds that were retired in 1994 after 31 years.

Red Line Fleet (226 cars + 242 on order)​

Series​	Car type​	Built By​	Electrical​	Year Built​	Year Rebuilt​	Carbody Material​	Width​	Length​	Seats​	Cars Active​	Out of Service​
01500-01523​	#1 Red Line​	Pullman-Standard​	Westinghouse​	1969-70​	1985-88​	Aluminum​	122”​	69’06”​	63​	24​	0​
01600-01651​	#1 Red Line​	Pullman-Standard​	Westinghouse​	1969-70​	1985-88​	Aluminum​	122”​	69’06”​	64​	44​	6​
01700-01757​	#2 Red Line​	UTDC​	Westinghouse​	1987-89​	2011-2016​	Aluminum​	120”​	69’09”​	62​	56​	2​
01800-01885​	#3 Red Line​	Bombardier​	General Electric​	1993-94​	​	Stainless-Steel​	120”​	69’06”​	50​	82​	2​
1900-2151​	#4 Red Line​	CRRC​	MELCO​	2019-2024​	​	Stainless-Steel​	120”​	69’06”​	43 A-car/ 50 B-car​	10​	242 on order​

 

[Fenway]

When it rains it pours

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/loca...ine-trains-pulled-from-service-again/2753286/
Honestly, it seems as though the T is broken beyond repair with the exception of bus service.

An elderly woman in my building told me today that the paratransit service 'The Ride' was supposed to take her this morning for 2 medical appointments and they never showed up and now she has to wait until September to see those doctors.

 

[joelkfla]

An elderly woman in my building told me today that the paratransit service 'The Ride' was supposed to take her this morning for 2 medical appointments and they never showed up and now she has to wait until September to see those doctors.

I've heard similar complaints in Orlando, NYC, & SF. It seems like paratransit doesn't work well anywhere. I think it's usually contracted out to a low bidder who doesn't pay enough to get reliable drivers.

 

[Fenway]

I've heard similar complaints in Orlando, NYC, & SF. It seems like paratransit doesn't work well anywhere. I think it's usually contracted out to a low bidder who doesn't pay enough to get reliable drivers.

In Boston the core issue is scheduling

 

[daybeers]

The MBTA obviously is starved of cash, and it won't be improved until people start to recognize this.

It's also incredibly mismanaged.