mc cain's agenda on amtrak

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"Occasionally we took a reinstalled engine out to test at high power. Everybody saved empty soda cans for such occasions. Tie down the aircraft, run it up to 100%, toss the empty cans into the exhaust, and watch them get rocketed into the air by the jet blast deflector. Kids having fun with major machinery. One time they let me sit in the cockpit and run up the throttle myself. An A-6, so two engines. Major rush. 

Again, WAY off topic. Sorry."

What a hoot.
I hasten to add that before there was any folderol or shennanigans, we made sure everything checked out okay. All readings had to be right. If not, back to the shop for more work to get it right. Lives on the line, and we were well aware. But we usually got it right. A good crew. But once everything checked out, fun city. Let's play with the airplane! RUN IT UP TO MILITARY!!

EDIT: Pilots were almost never around for maintenance, and probably woulda had us shot if they knew the way we were playing around with their planes.

2nd EDIT: My squadron never lost a pilot. I know different circumstances from McCain. A test squadron, not at war. Still a point of pride that our pilots always came back. Not everybody's, non-war, did. And we saw stupid mistakes. "You're gonna let a guy fly that thing?" Bad hydraulics, and worse. Once we knew an A-6 from a carrier was gonna try to take off without flaps. And we knew his electrics were shot as well. He had bingoed from a carrier, and wanted to get back to the ship. "Dude, are you serious??" He was. Everybody was out on the runway, watching the takeoff. A certain crash, but somehow the guy made it.

His good luck didn't last.

Hydraulics failed, and arresting hook wouldn't drop. Ramp strike. Dead pilots, and A-6 a loss. Shoulda listened to us: "Sir, this plane is unflyable." They always think they know better.
 
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Amtrak carried 25.8 million passengers in the last fiscal year -- up 1.5 million from the year before. Ticket revenue rose 11 percent. Trains on the Northeast Corridor and other popular corridors are increasingly sold out, and opinion polls consistently show overwhelming public support for a viable national rail system. But the conservative (and especially the Libertarian) competes with PETA to see who can appear more ridiculous in pursuit of Idealism. 10 out of 10 for standing on principle, but minus a few points for doing it in a clown costume.
 
"Ramp strike. Dead pilots, and A-6 a loss. Shoulda listened to us: "Sir, this plane is unflyable." They always think they know better. "

Whooz,

I understand the mentality. I've spent the better part of our marriage showing DH where the edge of the table is located. The fear is trained out of them so that great things can be accomplished and the mission completed. When you see the historical films (WWII) of the scaling of the French cliffs (Rangers did theirs at Point du Hoc.), you know you're dealing with something special. We had to, OF COURSE, go there on our official honeymoon to pay tribute and it blows you away to see it in person. Between there and Anne Frank's attic hideaway in Amsterdam, we got a good sense of evil and strength.

Amtrack Watcher: Don't abdicate on letting the winner know where you stand by believing that they are unmovable.

"10 out of 10 for standing on principle"

"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson

Jody
 
"Ramp strike. Dead pilots, and A-6 a loss. Shoulda listened to us: "Sir, this plane is unflyable." They always think they know better. "

Whooz,

I understand the mentality. I've spent the better part of our marriage showing DH where the edge of the table is located. The fear is trained out of them so that great things can be accomplished and the mission completed. When you see the historical films (WWII) of the scaling of the French cliffs (Rangers did theirs at Point du Hoc.)
I certainly appreciate Jody's viewpoint, but think there's a line to be drawn between bravery under battle conditions and just plain stupidity when it comes to taking off - in peacetime - with a plane that one has been informed (in no uncertain terms) is not airworthy.

No more air rant in an Amtrak forum; promise.
 
"Ramp strike. Dead pilots, and A-6 a loss. Shoulda listened to us: "Sir, this plane is unflyable." They always think they know better. "

Whooz,

I understand the mentality. I've spent the better part of our marriage showing DH where the edge of the table is located. The fear is trained out of them so that great things can be accomplished and the mission completed. When you see the historical films (WWII) of the scaling of the French cliffs (Rangers did theirs at Point du Hoc.)
I certainly appreciate Jody's viewpoint, but think there's a line to be drawn between bravery under battle conditions and just plain stupidity when it comes to taking off - in peacetime - with a plane that one has been informed (in no uncertain terms) is not airworthy.

No more air rant in an Amtrak forum; promise.
We done with planes yet ???
 
One of my gripes is John McSame wants recognition and support for having been a prisoner of war in Vietnam, a tererible thing, but how come he supports the fact that USA has a prisoner of war camp with autracious conditions at Quantanomo bay ???
I have always thought it wise to leave one military record alone unless there was a serious grievance committed that is akin to a civilian crime. Otherwise it is simply tit for tat to discuss how someone reacts to military situations. Everyone will be different and there is not way to tell whether being a POW is a net plus or minus for anyone. Considering many Republicans stepped all over John Kerry's military record I suppose it is fair game but again I would just leave well enough alone. Given $4-5 gas prices and a host of many other things McCain's Vietnam record will likely not be a major factor in anyone's voting decision.

I have found, in general (not assuming everyone...) that most Republicans have been reluctant to support Amtrak because A) Its more government spending and government control over what once was and could be a market driven commodity; B ) Republicans tend to dislike anything communal and they love their big trucks and SUVs so they can be 'king of the road'; C) The demographic that utilizes Amtrak tends to be more Democratic than Republican for various reasons not including the fact that the NE Corridor is a heavy commuter corridor and the NE is heavily Democratic.

Even in times of a Republican WH and Republican Congress - there were enough urban legislators and rural legislators like in ND where Amtrak is a popular and sometimes necessary mode of transportation to ensure at least level current spending. Given the fact that $4-5 gas is likely to remain indefinately and with Amtrak ridership on the upswing and given the above factors I do not forsee threats to service in the near term. Coming from Chicago - Barack Obama seems to be favorable to mass transit and likely will not fight funding.
2nd that!!!!

:p
 
Informal poll. No shouting at those with whom you disagree or calling them or their positions, idiots, just an exercise.

What is your litmus test for this election? And will it cost you anything in the concrete (versus the abstract)? You'll see how conflicted I am in a minute. Example litmus tests include:

1. Global War on Terrorism (Iraq, Afghan & wherever)

2. The Economy, to include unemployment increases and high gas prices.

3. Affordability of Healthcare

4. Amtrak and the transportation policies

5. Environmental issues

6. Sanctity of Life versus Access to Abortion

7. Definition of Family

8. Other- Defined (spell it out for us please)

9. Other- Unspoken

By now (from reading the other thread on the war) you may know that the war touches me personally as my husband just finished a deployment and could very well do another as many of our friends have. They're painful. BUT, for years MY unshakable litmus test is #6 on the sanctity of life issue. Also for the record and to shake some of your prejudices, I traditionally vote Repub, have been an environmentalist for longer than some of you have been born, don't (& wouldn't) own an SUV unless it had phenomenal gas mileage, would put a solar panel on the roof if I could figure out how to get it up there, have grown organically- again longer than some of you are old, believe in the need for a utility called Amtrak as part of an integrated transportation policy, am a CPA and recoup gas prices through investment rather than calling for government intervention. And, my husband is a union member.

We need to get past the loud mouth media commentators to be able to discuss this stuff civily.

In case you're not familiar with the concept, the litmus test is the deal breaker issue.

Jody
 
Informal poll. No shouting at those with whom you disagree or calling them or their positions, idiots, just an exercise.
Informal poll.

Does this belong in this thread? Yes/No.

Not being "on topic", I'll not address your ignorance of interservice rivalries, "leadership training" for pilots (there isn't any) and all the rest.

You want to talk politics? Start your own thread, it'll be fun. I'm trying to read about politics and AMTRAK in this one.
 
Informal poll. No shouting at those with whom you disagree or calling them or their positions, idiots, just an exercise.

What is your litmus test for this election? And will it cost you anything in the concrete (versus the abstract)? You'll see how conflicted I am in a minute. Example litmus tests include:

1. Global War on Terrorism (Iraq, Afghan & wherever)

2. The Economy, to include unemployment increases and high gas prices.

3. Affordability of Healthcare

4. Amtrak and the transportation policies

5. Environmental issues

6. Sanctity of Life versus Access to Abortion

7. Definition of Family

8. Other- Defined (spell it out for us please)

9. Other- Unspoken

Jody
I don't have a litmus test - I think a variety of issues are important and wouldn't vote dogmatically one way or the other on just one issue. Although if I had to pick one from your list - it would be #6, and in the opposite way of Jody.
 
"I have made no secret that I will be banging my head against the wall at human stupidity if McCain gets elected"
No you won't. Your kibbutzing butt will get drafted! I believe the service would be good for you.

Jody

Green Mandolin. You know I adore you.
I wouldn't be drafted, and I've already served in a military anyway, thanks. Also, stop acting like a 5 year old with your childish ribs. If you want to discuss, I'm all for it. I live here to get away from the violence of my youth, lady. It angers me to no end that a government so idealistically created, so humane in its self image, would go into such nonsense as this. There was no need for this rubbish. It didn't need to happen, it shouldn't have happened, and frankly the president and half his staff should be on war crimes trials for perpetuating it.

My main issue in this election is the economy. Pro business is not what will work in an economy such as this. Frankly, this country needs to declare bankruptcy. Unfortunately, neither candidate has the cojones for that.
 
What is your litmus test for this election?
Jody
I'll try again, and rephrase.

Knew my last post wouldn't last. Very harsh on the current administration. AlanB is very fair-minded about running these forums, and there was no way my incendiary rant was gonna stand. Knew that when it was posted.

But I think it's fair to repeat, without my usual heated leftist rhetoric, that my only real litmus test for this upcoming election is intelligence.

Not so much interested in candidates' positions as whether they can discuss them coherently. Where there's intelligent discourse, there's the potential for change. Right wing or left wing, I see it as more important to sit down and talk about things with the purpose of coming to some sort of conclusion that may not please everybody, but works overall for the greater good of the American people.

And of course I want more Amtrak funding.
 
"I've already served in a military anyway, thanks"

US Military?.. i.e., the one that pays the price so that you can speak your mind? Are you still under the term of obligation? (Generally, one serves actively for a set period and the contract is for x years past that in the IRR with occasional muster calls.

"My main issue in this election is the economy"

That's what I wanted to know. Sometimes, on this forum it comes across (not necessarily from you) that Amtrak funding is the litmus test. If it is, so be it, especially to an Amtrak employee. Some believe that the current economy has its roots in other-than Bernanke's policies. Do you agree, GML?

"I see it as more important to sit down and talk about things with the purpose of coming to some sort of conclusion that may not please everybody, but works overall for the greater good of the American people."

Amen and nice save, Whooz. Add the word, civily. An opinion article by Lee Iacocca in the AARP Jul/Aug 08 issue points out that we know so little about the leadership qualities (of the candidates) and asks the question: " Show me instances where the candidates have demonstrated creativity in solving problems, courage in the face of adversity, curiousity about people who aren't like them, and the ability to communicate forcefully, with friends and enemies alike..". But the part that really strikes a chord is when Mr. Iacoccoa says, "Who is going to be on their teams if they're elected? The presidency is not a one-man show.... It matters who the key advisors are-..."

Written somewhere is the possibility of Mr. Obama choosing former Senator Sam Nunn as his running mate. That would be palatable. He was an excellent Senator, and a statesman (versus a politician). He ran for President in 199x. Go check out his platform. He ran on the belief that terrorism would be our next greatest challenge. Insightful. He understands the military and has a brilliant mature mind that would be a compliment to Mr. Obama. GML, who do you think should be some of the teammates?

I see the transportation policy as being non-partisan and would like a candidate to do as Mr. Iacocca says and that's to show creativity in solving problems. Find some solutions "outside the box".

Jody
 
I think perhaps we are getting a bit too non-train political for this forum, but if no one objects, I'll continue unless someone complains.

US Military?.. i.e., the one that pays the price so that you can speak your mind? Are you still under the term of obligation? (Generally, one serves actively for a set period and the contract is for x years past that in the IRR with occasional muster calls.
I picked the word "a" carefully. Israeli. I got out of it because of medical and family reasons. They could still (technically) call me back for non-combatant work, but in the 5 years since I left, I haven't been so far.

"My main issue in this election is the economy"
That's what I wanted to know. Sometimes, on this forum it comes across (not necessarily from you) that Amtrak funding is the litmus test. If it is, so be it, especially to an Amtrak employee. Some believe that the current economy has its roots in other-than Bernanke's policies. Do you agree, GML?
The roots of our economy, (and I wrote a term paper on this, by the way) stems back to Harry S. Truman and Dwight David Eisenhower. Franklin Delano Roosevelt, in an attempt to restore our economy in the 1930s, selected as a muse one John Maynard Keynes, or so it seems. He was clearly applying Keynesian economic theory. That theory includes (I don't know if you know economics, so I'm sorry if I'm droning on about stuff you already know) the concept of using governmental intervention to flatten the economic cycle.

Roosevelt, according to that theory, poured government money into the economy, which helped a good way to reviving it (so did the war economy of WW2, of course). The theory basically suggests that the government should put in when times are bad (government spending, lower taxes)- and take out when times are good (lower government aide, increased taxes). Its been known to work well in long term political systems.

Unfortunately, the United States is not such a system. At the end of the war, taxes were, for the most part, reduced by Eisenhower, government spending was not curtailed all that much, and taxes were not raised to repay the costs, and building up a reserve for the next econominc downturn. Its hard to sell the typical american on higher taxes/lower services. People tend to want things NOW, and they, unfortunately, also vote NOW.

At this point, I think we are in a time when the government needs to pour money in. McCain, and the general republican stance on economics, are not in going with that concept.

Written somewhere is the possibility of Mr. Obama choosing former Senator Sam Nunn as his running mate. That would be palatable. He was an excellent Senator, and a statesman (versus a politician). He ran for President in 199x. Go check out his platform. He ran on the belief that terrorism would be our next greatest challenge. Insightful. He understands the military and has a brilliant mature mind that would be a compliment to Mr. Obama. GML, who do you think should be some of the teammates?
I have a great deal respect for two men who I'd consider to be more statesmen than politicians (although they are still basically politicians). Those two men are Michael Bloomberg and Joe Corzine. Bloomberg is conservative, (we are talking financially, not socially) Corzine being more liberal. I'd like to see both of them in his cabinet.

Abraham Lincoln, in my opinion, is the best president this country has ever had. One of his most intelligent decisions (although not so bright in light of him dying, I'll admit) was his cabinet of rivals. I hope Obama has the chutzpah to select people he disagrees with, and people who disagree with each other, but are the best for their jobs.

Its sad. The last kind of person you want to run a country is a politician. Yet only a politician is capable of being elected. (this is a philosophical, rather than direct, statement)
 
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I would like to know how a certain person entered the Israeli military, and in what capacity he served. And what branch?

Working for the Navy (civilian), we had a guy on Attack Crew named Howard Wurm. Nobody knew how the guy got in, but there he was. The standard saying was "Every outfit has a Wurm."

He'd never been on a carrier, cuz nobody wanted him at sea, where his mistakes could cost lives. I'd never been to sea either, but that was because of my weird civilian status.

One day saw Wurm about to walk straight into jet blast. NO!! Even the Wurms of the world are fellow human beings, so ran like hell and knocked the guy down before he got himself incinerated. He tried to fight me. "Dude, calm down. You're gonna see your wife tonight. You were about to get killed."

Jerk never thanked me, but the unit did with a letter of commendation (rare for a civlian). Saved the major hassle of endless accident reports.

Yes, I promised no more air rant, but am reacting to provocation.
 
"I would like to know how a certain person entered the I*ra2li military, and in what capacity he served"

Whooz, I know you'd like to know, but I'd leave that alone or do the pm route. If you work around the J#h community (to thwart searches) you'd know... but understand your curiosity. It also gives insight into the disdain for "Cross bearers" seen in GML's writing and has more to do with the goings on of the country he served. Is that close, GML?

I'd like to read your economics paper if you have the ability to pm it (sans your name) to me....

"Its sad. The last kind of person you want to run a country is a politician. Yet only a politician is capable of being elected"

..very much in agreement. I believe that a statesman of either party would be able to see the need for passenger rail and help get us past this table tilting instability.

Let's do a little informing here about politics and campaigns.... based on my experience. I'm not an expert, I just ended up in a higher place than I ever would have imagined because I had a skill that was desperately needed at a point in time and had commitment and the ability to focus under pressure. The whole time I kept thinking, "nah", this isn't how it works, but it was. I volunteered initially to answer the phone. Within that campaign there were at least 2 kinds of workers: those who were in the "political business" and those who were idealists. A railfan would be an idealist. The business types may not agree with the candidate personally but they work elections for various reasons. They may work all parties. This year it may have been Hillary, last term, it may have been Bush. After a loss, these kind will run you over to the exits. The idealists labor on.

If victories start occurring the candidate begins considering future partners. It NEVER crossed my mind that I would get considered for a state wide post. Remember, that's the idealist. The very first question asked, "Do you have a past?". When I see some of your posts I know that you're not considering that you are forever associated with your posts in electronic archives, etc. We're all tempted and give in to "letting it fly" or flaming to silence. Many of you are young and have no idea where fate may lead so watch what you are posting (all over) if you wish to influence the future. Because? On every sharp campaign is that team called "Opposition Research" to try to discredit you. Your own words may do that best. You want passenger rail? Work for it, no matter the party- not here- but work where it counts.

Letter write your officials about the future possibilities you see with Amtrak (not the nitpicking- employee-hurt-my-feelings and the grits were cold type). I've been in the "nah, can't be" mode when I've heard the exact paragraph written come out in a speech. See if your representative is looking for examples of how the gas prices are affecting you. (Mine is at this time, but it looks to be in support of ANWR drilling and I hate that.) Go to their websites and see if there's anything related (today) to tranportation, highways or gas prices and request that Amtrak be considered a permanently viable part of the solution.

Another way is to join at the local (city/county/parish/

burrough/high school/college) party level. If passenger rail is not a plank in the ticket, start educating these groups why it should be. Figure out how the system works. Become a delegate. In some areas it's easier than others. Be persistent and not cynical in your involvement.

You have the blessed ability to influence.

Jody
 
Whooz, if I ever get around to typing up my memoirs and publishing them, I'll send you a copy. 'Til then, you can continue speculating. Since I am never likely to get far in life (I'm too damned caustic- I know myself well.) I doubt I'll ever think of a reason for writing my autobiography, but ya never know.

Jody, when I upgraded my computer from OSX 10.4 Tiger to 10.5 Leopard, my file vault managed to corrupt itself and all the data on my hard drive that was within the protection of FileVault now sits in a SARS image on my second hard drive, encrypted. I know I have the paper on a CD back up somewhere, so if I do happen to find it, I'll be happy to send it over to you. Or if I manage to find someone whose willing to decrypt it for less than the $500 someone quoted me.

As for my stance on "cross bearers", its only because so many people in this country are Christian, and as such, they are the ones I have reason to blast off at. I feel exactly the same way about fanatical muslims and jews. And any other religion you can name. I am tired of people who try to bash people over the head with the tenets of their own beliefs. Especially when its literal.
 
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