meal limits?

[Anderson]

On the appetizer front: For a long time, I remember seeing a "buffalo wing" appetizer listed on the menus of several trains (I know I saw it on the LSL's menu, and I may have seen it on the Meteor's or the Zephyr's as well). I never saw anyone get it, though, and I'm really not surprised that they discontinued it. That was also the only appetizer I ever saw on offer.

I'm wondering, on Amtrak, what was the appetizer situation prior to the mid-2000s?

 

[OBS]

Speaking of meals, wouldn't it be nice if a solo rider in a sleeper were able to "share" his/her meals with coach passengers (since the "extra" meal is included in the cost of the room(ette). I'm thinking that you could either invite someone you met in the lounge car

In a way, you can do that. If you are riding solo and heading for dining car from the SSL, you can ask your coach co-passenger to accompany you, and just go and sit at the diner as if you both are sleeper passengers, order, eat, tip and walk away. The dining car attendants only ask your roomette number, they don't ask how many people are there in that roomette. I have done this once. I was a coach passenger with a friend in roomette and the sleeper friend invited me to join him for dinner. The staff assumed we both are in roomette and gave "free" food to both of us.

That is technically theft of services and if the LSA catches you they could ask you to pay for the meal. And they might even tell the conductor who could decide to call the police or throw both of you off the train.

In the incident I mentioned, once seated in the Diner, we told the LSA that we are traveling together but one of us is in roomette and one in coach, she herself suggested that she can offer dinner to both passengers under the sleeper passenger's roomette number. Needless to say, we tipped her well for the "generosity"

Well that is vastly different than what you originally suggested, which would indeed be considered theft of service.

As for your experience, if that happened within the last 2 or 3 years, then that LSA herself could be in serious trouble. Amtrak has taken specific steps to stop this practice. For many years, it was indeed possible to bump into someone and add them to your room and/or bring them into the dining car and "get away" with pretending that they were traveling together.

Now, you must add someone to your room prior to departure. It cannot be done onboard anymore. And the LSA should NOT be handing out free meals like that.

So please be careful with suggesting that others try this. I know you meant no harm, but it could get someone into serious trouble.

Thanks Alan. Everything you said here is very true. Even if the LSA was not aware, if they were audited after the trip and sleeper meals don't match the manifest, there could be serious consequences for the LSA.

 

[MiRider]

Speaking of meals, wouldn't it be nice if a solo rider in a sleeper were able to "share" his/her meals with coach passengers (since the "extra" meal is included in the cost of the room(ette). I'm thinking that you could either invite someone you met in the lounge car

In a way, you can do that. If you are riding solo and heading for dining car from the SSL, you can ask your coach co-passenger to accompany you, and just go and sit at the diner as if you both are sleeper passengers, order, eat, tip and walk away. The dining car attendants only ask your roomette number, they don't ask how many people are there in that roomette. I have done this once. I was a coach passenger with a friend in roomette and the sleeper friend invited me to join him for dinner. The staff assumed we both are in roomette and gave "free" food to both of us.

That is technically theft of services and if the LSA catches you they could ask you to pay for the meal. And they might even tell the conductor who could decide to call the police or throw both of you off the train.

In the incident I mentioned, once seated in the Diner, we told the LSA that we are traveling together but one of us is in roomette and one in coach, she herself suggested that she can offer dinner to both passengers under the sleeper passenger's roomette number. Needless to say, we tipped her well for the "generosity"

Well that is vastly different than what you originally suggested, which would indeed be considered theft of service.

As for your experience, if that happened within the last 2 or 3 years, then that LSA herself could be in serious trouble. Amtrak has taken specific steps to stop this practice. For many years, it was indeed possible to bump into someone and add them to your room and/or bring them into the dining car and "get away" with pretending that they were traveling together.

Now, you must add someone to your room prior to departure. It cannot be done onboard anymore. And the LSA should NOT be handing out free meals like that.

So please be careful with suggesting that others try this. I know you meant no harm, but it could get someone into serious trouble.

Thanks Alan. Everything you said here is very true. Even if the LSA was not aware, if they were audited after the trip and sleeper meals don't match the manifest, there could be serious consequences for the LSA.

Just for the sake of argument

Wouldn't that be unfair to the LSA?

Unless the passengers enter from the sleeping car and without asking for ticket stubs, how can the LSA be certain that someone is a sleeping car passenger?

I've seen many SC pax waiting for their reservations in the SSL, so they, in effect, would be entering from the 'coach end' of the dining car.

Then again, I remember one of my favorite LSAs telling me how many pax were in the sleepers, so they obviously know and more than likely have a list.

I would imagine that they reconcile the checks asap and would be able to figure out which room caused the discrepancy.

 

[OBS]

In the incident I mentioned, once seated in the Diner, we told the LSA that we are traveling together but one of us is in roomette and one in coach, she herself suggested that she can offer dinner to both passengers under the sleeper passenger's roomette number. Needless to say, we tipped her well for the "generosity"

Well that is vastly different than what you originally suggested, which would indeed be considered theft of service.

As for your experience, if that happened within the last 2 or 3 years, then that LSA herself could be in serious trouble. Amtrak has taken specific steps to stop this practice. For many years, it was indeed possible to bump into someone and add them to your room and/or bring them into the dining car and "get away" with pretending that they were traveling together.

Now, you must add someone to your room prior to departure. It cannot be done onboard anymore. And the LSA should NOT be handing out free meals like that.

So please be careful with suggesting that others try this. I know you meant no harm, but it could get someone into serious trouble.

Thanks Alan. Everything you said here is very true. Even if the LSA was not aware, if they were audited after the trip and sleeper meals don't match the manifest, there could be serious consequences for the LSA.

Just for the sake of argument

Wouldn't that be unfair to the LSA?

Unless the passengers enter from the sleeping car and without asking for ticket stubs, how can the LSA be certain that someone is a sleeping car passenger?

I've seen many SC pax waiting for their reservations in the SSL, so they, in effect, would be entering from the 'coach end' of the dining car.

Then again, I remember one of my favorite LSAs telling me how many pax were in the sleepers, so they obviously know and more than likely have a list.

I would imagine that they reconcile the checks asap and would be able to figure out which room caused the discrepancy.

Amtrak? Unfair to it's LSA's? NAHHHHH...LOL...But seriously, The LSA is issued a manifest at beginning of trip, and are quite often provided an updated one by Cdr. enroute. It is their responsibility to ensure the sleeping car meal checks are used only by those entitled, however they choose to do or not do it. Partially because they are like blank checks and can be misused in a variety of different ways.

 

[Anderson]

In the incident I mentioned, once seated in the Diner, we told the LSA that we are traveling together but one of us is in roomette and one in coach, she herself suggested that she can offer dinner to both passengers under the sleeper passenger's roomette number. Needless to say, we tipped her well for the "generosity"

Well that is vastly different than what you originally suggested, which would indeed be considered theft of service.

As for your experience, if that happened within the last 2 or 3 years, then that LSA herself could be in serious trouble. Amtrak has taken specific steps to stop this practice. For many years, it was indeed possible to bump into someone and add them to your room and/or bring them into the dining car and "get away" with pretending that they were traveling together.

Now, you must add someone to your room prior to departure. It cannot be done onboard anymore. And the LSA should NOT be handing out free meals like that.

So please be careful with suggesting that others try this. I know you meant no harm, but it could get someone into serious trouble.

Thanks Alan. Everything you said here is very true. Even if the LSA was not aware, if they were audited after the trip and sleeper meals don't match the manifest, there could be serious consequences for the LSA.

Just for the sake of argument

Wouldn't that be unfair to the LSA?

Unless the passengers enter from the sleeping car and without asking for ticket stubs, how can the LSA be certain that someone is a sleeping car passenger?

I've seen many SC pax waiting for their reservations in the SSL, so they, in effect, would be entering from the 'coach end' of the dining car.

Then again, I remember one of my favorite LSAs telling me how many pax were in the sleepers, so they obviously know and more than likely have a list.

I would imagine that they reconcile the checks asap and would be able to figure out which room caused the discrepancy.

Amtrak? Unfair to it's LSA's? NAHHHHH...LOL...But seriously, The LSA is issued a manifest at beginning of trip, and are quite often provided an updated one by Cdr. enroute. It is their responsibility to ensure the sleeping car meal checks are used only by those entitled, however they choose to do or not do it. Partially because they are like blank checks and can be misused in a variety of different ways.

Such an audit seems potentially problematic...for example, on the NB Meteor, if the train is "on time" (let alone late) into WAS, a decent number of folks would likely get breakfast who wouldn't get it if the train was (as it often is) "early".

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Boy, guess I started something. But it is a good discussion.

The only reason I suggested it is the fact that the roomette costs the same whether there is one or two in it, so if I'm traveling solo, it "appears" that I'm paying for two seatings at each meal. I don't have a problem with that in that just the way it is. Just thought it would be nice to share with someone from coach.

 

[MiRider]

Boy, guess I started something. But it is a good discussion.

The only reason I suggested it is the fact that the roomette costs the same whether there is one or two in it, so if I'm traveling solo, it "appears" that I'm paying for two seatings at each meal. I don't have a problem with that in that just the way it is. Just thought it would be nice to share with someone from coach.

Well, I don't think you started anything and it is a good discussion.

You just shared a generous thought, imo.

AmtrakBlue, if we ever meet on the same train, I would love to have a meal with you

 

[benjibear]

Boy, guess I started something. But it is a good discussion.

The only reason I suggested it is the fact that the roomette costs the same whether there is one or two in it, so if I'm traveling solo, it "appears" that I'm paying for two seatings at each meal. I don't have a problem with that in that just the way it is. Just thought it would be nice to share with someone from coach.

I don't think I would looked at it this way. I assume that the prices are set assuming a proffit with a minimum of one passenger in each sleeping compartment. The added cost to actually transport the second passenger is really negligable because the space is already there. The real added cost is for the meals, extra towers, water, service, etc. because there more than one person to accomodate. Now if a person that is in coach wants to move into the sleeper with you, that would be a different story because that would open up a coach seat that could accomodate another coach passenger.

Now if you are using points, that is probably a different scenerio. The points inlcude accomodations for the maximum occupancy so I could see an argument made that each roomette should get two meals.

 

[zephyr17]

Boy, guess I started something. But it is a good discussion.

The only reason I suggested it is the fact that the roomette costs the same whether there is one or two in it, so if I'm traveling solo, it "appears" that I'm paying for two seatings at each meal. I don't have a problem with that in that just the way it is. Just thought it would be nice to share with someone from coach.

I don't think I would looked at it this way. I assume that the prices are set assuming a proffit with a minimum of one passenger in each sleeping compartment. The added cost to actually transport the second passenger is really negligable because the space is already there. The real added cost is for the meals, extra towers, water, service, etc. because there more than one person to accomodate. Now if a person that is in coach wants to move into the sleeper with you, that would be a different story because that would open up a coach seat that could accomodate another coach passenger.

Now if you are using points, that is probably a different scenerio. The points inlcude accomodations for the maximum occupancy so I could see an argument made that each roomette should get two meals.

Way back when they started the "complementary" meals back in the 80's, you could see they pretty much raised the price for the room by the cost of 2 meals for each meal period enroute, based on comparing the price pre-complementary and post-complementary. I recall I was pretty PO'd about it at the time, because I frequently traveled alone, so it increased my cost. They certainly didn't look complementary to me, mandatory was more like it, at least in terms of paying for meals.

I can't say how the calculations have changed since, but I would bet the price of the accomodation is still based on two meals per room.

 

[Ispolkom]

I can't say how the calculations have changed since, but I would bet the price of the accomodation is still based on two meals per room.

Isn't the price of sleeper accommodation now based on what the market will bear?

I won't argue, though that the pricing of sleeper accommodations has convinced me that Amtrak hates single travelers. Not as much as it hates vegetarians (proof: the vegetarian lasagna), but still.

 

[lthanlon]

I'm wondering why Amtrak includes meals in the cost of sleeper tickets. It's not as if we're really getting anything for free, right?

 

[me_little_me]

Speaking of meals, wouldn't it be nice if a solo rider in a sleeper were able to "share" his/her meals with coach passengers (since the "extra" meal is included in the cost of the room(ette). I'm thinking that you could either invite someone you met in the lounge car

In a way, you can do that. If you are riding solo and heading for dining car from the SSL, you can ask your coach co-passenger to accompany you, and just go and sit at the diner as if you both are sleeper passengers, order, eat, tip and walk away. The dining car attendants only ask your roomette number, they don't ask how many people are there in that roomette. I have done this once. I was a coach passenger with a friend in roomette and the sleeper friend invited me to join him for dinner. The staff assumed we both are in roomette and gave "free" food to both of us.

That is technically theft of services and if the LSA catches you they could ask you to pay for the meal. And they might even tell the conductor who could decide to call the police or throw both of you off the train.

I agree. It also is just plain dishonest. If the friend has a roomette, the friend can have the coach passenger when making the reservation added to the room (and sit in the room) instead of in coach. Thus Amtrak is compensated for the measl by being able to sell that seat in coach to someone else.

 

[zephyr17]

I can't say how the calculations have changed since, but I would bet the price of the accomodation is still based on two meals per room.

Isn't the price of sleeper accommodation now based on what the market will bear?

I won't argue, though that the pricing of sleeper accommodations has convinced me that Amtrak hates single travelers. Not as much as it hates vegetarians (proof: the vegetarian lasagna), but still.

Sort of agree, way back when they did it, there weren't yield management buckets, IIRC. But I still think that 2 meals per room is probably part of their cost basis for the calculation.

 

[Texan Eagle]

Amtrak hates single travelers. Not as much as it hates vegetarians (proof: the vegetarian lasagna), but still.

And imagine being a vegetarian and traveling single?

This is one reason why I am never too keen on spending extra for sleeper travel on Amtrak.

 

[sunchaser]

Boy, guess I started something. But it is a good discussion.

The only reason I suggested it is the fact that the roomette costs the same whether there is one or two in it, so if I'm traveling solo, it "appears" that I'm paying for two seatings at each meal. I don't have a problem with that in that just the way it is. Just thought it would be nice to share with someone from coach.

Well, I don't think you started anything and it is a good discussion.

You just shared a generous thought, imo.

AmtrakBlue, if we ever meet on the same train, I would love to have a meal with you

It is kind of weird that you cannot 'share' the meal with a coach passenger, but I do understand that it could be considered 'lost revenue'. I do know that I called a while back about adding a small child into our bedroom reservation, and was told it was fine and the child would get meals, too. I think the key is the person must be on the ticket for the roomette or bedroom to receive the 'complimentary' meal.

My question is don't the sleeper passengers typically get seated before the coach passengers? Not that it matters to me, but they may do that to make it easier on the staff to keep track of who is supposed to pay and who doesn't need to. I would be happy to share a meal with just about anybody from this board, including you!

 

[zephyr17]

Boy, guess I started something. But it is a good discussion.

The only reason I suggested it is the fact that the roomette costs the same whether there is one or two in it, so if I'm traveling solo, it "appears" that I'm paying for two seatings at each meal. I don't have a problem with that in that just the way it is. Just thought it would be nice to share with someone from coach.

Well, I don't think you started anything and it is a good discussion.

You just shared a generous thought, imo.

AmtrakBlue, if we ever meet on the same train, I would love to have a meal with you

It is kind of weird that you cannot 'share' the meal with a coach passenger, but I do understand that it could be considered 'lost revenue'. I do know that I called a while back about adding a small child into our bedroom reservation, and was told it was fine and the child would get meals, too. I think the key is the person must be on the ticket for the roomette or bedroom to receive the 'complimentary' meal.

My question is don't the sleeper passengers typically get seated before the coach passengers? Not that it matters to me, but they may do that to make it easier on the staff to keep track of who is supposed to pay and who doesn't need to. I would be happy to share a meal with just about anybody from this board, including you!

They are offered reservations first, but when the reservation time is called, people are seated basically by when they show up. Of course, some times have probably been booked exclusively by sleeper pax, since they get first crack at it.

 

[Rail Freak]

about 1/2 the time, I have been asked to show the wait-person my ticket stub.

Not doubting anyone, just realized that I've never been asked for a ticket stub in the diner or for an ID on any train! However, I've always been asked for an ID when picking up tickets at a station.

 

[Anderson]

about 1/2 the time, I have been asked to show the wait-person my ticket stub.

Not doubting anyone, just realized that I've never been asked for a ticket stub in the diner or for an ID on any train! However, I've always been asked for an ID when picking up tickets at a station.

I've occasionally been asked for a stub...but it was usually in the vein of "I can't remember my car number" moments more than anything.

 

[RRUserious]

I didn't realize till last year that meals were included. It sure made the sleeper cost look better.

 

[Shawn Ryu]

Speaking of meals, wouldn't it be nice if a solo rider in a sleeper were able to "share" his/her meals with coach passengers (since the "extra" meal is included in the cost of the room(ette). I'm thinking that you could either invite someone you met in the lounge car or perhaps have the conducter instruct one of the CAs to select someone that appears (not by looks, but just a general feeling or from hearing the person express a desire to eat in the diner if s/he could afford it) to be unable to afford to eat in the diner.

solo riders should be able to share roomette with other riders period, if I can do that and pay half for the roomette I could affrd to ride in sleepers 40% of the time. 40% more than I can now (see what I did there). Whats the worst that can happen? Its on a train. Very limited space.

 

[Ispolkom]

Not doubting anyone, just realized that I've never been asked for a ticket stub in the diner or for an ID on any train! However, I've always been asked for an ID when picking up tickets at a station.

Neither have I. Does that mean that we look respectable? Perish the thought!

 

[AlanB]

Speaking of meals, wouldn't it be nice if a solo rider in a sleeper were able to "share" his/her meals with coach passengers (since the "extra" meal is included in the cost of the room(ette). I'm thinking that you could either invite someone you met in the lounge car or perhaps have the conducter instruct one of the CAs to select someone that appears (not by looks, but just a general feeling or from hearing the person express a desire to eat in the diner if s/he could afford it) to be unable to afford to eat in the diner.

solo riders should be able to share roomette with other riders period, if I can do that and pay half for the roomette I could affrd to ride in sleepers 40% of the time. 40% more than I can now (see what I did there). Whats the worst that can happen? Its on a train. Very limited space.

If you start out in coach and make a friend and assuming that rooms are available, ask to do an upgrade; that is permitted.

But if you're already in a sleeper, then you just can't go to the lounge car and make friends and add them to your room.

 

[Shawn Ryu]

Speaking of meals, wouldn't it be nice if a solo rider in a sleeper were able to "share" his/her meals with coach passengers (since the "extra" meal is included in the cost of the room(ette). I'm thinking that you could either invite someone you met in the lounge car or perhaps have the conducter instruct one of the CAs to select someone that appears (not by looks, but just a general feeling or from hearing the person express a desire to eat in the diner if s/he could afford it) to be unable to afford to eat in the diner.

solo riders should be able to share roomette with other riders period, if I can do that and pay half for the roomette I could affrd to ride in sleepers 40% of the time. 40% more than I can now (see what I did there). Whats the worst that can happen? Its on a train. Very limited space.

If you start out in coach and make a friend and assuming that rooms are available, ask to do an upgrade; that is permitted.

But if you're already in a sleeper, then you just can't go to the lounge car and make friends and add them to your room.

Nah, I mean have a program where they allow people to find partners online and book roomettes together.

Just add the whole PS DO IT AT YOUR OWN PERIL and other warnings. In case the other guy is less than a stand up character.

 

[RRUserious]

What are the rules about booking a sleeper? Do you really have to know the persons you share it with? How do they investigate the relationship? I assume the room itself has a cost, but maybe Amtrak charges per passenger just to avoid people sharing to cut cost.

 

[Steve4031]

They dont. I think the current system is fine. I really wouldn't want to share one with someone I didn't know or had made an arrangement with ahead of time through the Internet.