Meeting my new love - The Boeing 777

[jis]

Surprisingly, recently I have done a lot of disembarkation down stairways to the tarmac from 777s at Frankfurt Rhein-Main Airport (FRA). Yes, being that close to one at ground level is very impressive.

There was a time when it was almost routine doing the stairway drill at London Heathrow, even from 747s when T3 was under refurbishment. And of course at Hong Kong Kai Tak, one seldom if ever, had the good fortune of getting a gate. It was always stairway both on arrival and departure for me, all on 747s. It was double treat on arrivals, first shooting the Checkerboard Approach for the landing and then being disgorged onto the tarmac next to the enormous plane waiting for a bus in the humid hot air.

 

[Hotblack Desiato]

I'm impressed that two folks have managed to fly on an ERJ-090. I've never heard of that type.

For my list.

Airbus:

A318

A319

A320

A321

A330-300

A340-300 / -600

(A380-800 scheduled for October)

Boeing:

KC135

717-200

727-200

737-100 / -200 / -300 / -400 / -500 / -600 / -700 / -800 / -900 / -900ER

747-200 / -400 / -8

757-200 / -300

767-300

777-200 / -200LR / -300ER

787-8

(McDonnell-)Douglas:

DC-9-10 / -30 / -40 / -50

MD-80 (not sure of sub-model, but something in the -81/82/83 series)

MD-90

DC-10-30 / -40

Bombardier:

CRJ-200 / -700 / -900

DHC-8-100 / -200 / -300 / Q400

Beech:

1900D

Avro:

RJ100

Fairchild-Dornier (or whatever they were called at the end):

328JET

Embraer:

EMB-120

EMB-135 / -145

ERJ-170 / -175 / -190

Ford:

Tri-Motor

Other random stuff:

DHC-3 (float plane)

DHC-6 (float plane)

Cessna (various single-engine types, don't even remember the full set)

Piper Cherokee

(plus some other stuff I've either forgotten or don't know the specific model)

 

[jis]

I'm impressed that two folks have managed to fly on an ERJ-090. I've never heard of that type.

Ah yes, typo copy pasted mindlessly by me
I also missed one. I flew on a Trident on a BEA flight from London to Paris Orly.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

(plus some other stuff I've either forgotten or don't know the specific model)

There were a few other models that I was scheduled or ticketed on but were lost to cancellations, equipment swaps, and misconnects. I have some vague memories of a Saab prop and a Fokker jet but other than that I think I have everything I ever flew on there.

I'm impressed that two folks have managed to fly on an ERJ-090. I've never heard of that type.

Ah yes, type copy pasted mindlessly

The shortened/abbreviated name for the E190 is E90. Not sure why but that's what I wrote down originally and then my OCD turned it into E090. If anyone was under any allusion that my list is error free I can assure you that is not the case. h34r:

 

[Hotblack Desiato]

(plus some other stuff I've either forgotten or don't know the specific model)

There were a few other models that I was scheduled or ticketed on but were lost to cancellations, equipment swaps, and misconnects. I have some vague memories of a Saab prop and a Fokker jet but other than that I think I have everything I ever flew on there.

I was supposed to have an F100 on my list, but it got changed due to an equipment swap a month or so before the flight.

Also missed an RJ85 due to a misconnect. Such is life.

 

[MARC Rider]

My first flight was an Eastern DC-7, BAL (Friendship) - MIA. The trip home was my first Jet flight, Northeast or National (I forget exactly which) Convair 880.

Some years later, I was on a Boy Scout charter on a Johnson Flying Services DC-4 from Spokane to Philadelphia. I don't think the pilot had ever been east of the Mississippi, and when we landed in Philly, the airport was a bit bigger than the ones he was used to, and we taxied to a few different places before he found where he was supposed to let us off.

My favorite jets from the 70s and 80s were the DC-10 (flew it JFK to Narita) and the L1011 (BWI to Heathrow.) You were never more than one person from the aisle.

 

[Bob Dylan]

My first flight was on a MATS ( Military Transport)C-47/DC-3.

First Jet Flight was on the Historic 707. I remember it like it was yesterday, just like my First Flight on a 747 and my one and only flight on the Concorde SST!

 

[JRR]

I flew to Vietnam and back on a stretch 707 (courtesy of the U. S. Government), Kennedy to Zurich in the first class section of a 747, and Heathrow to Dulles on the Concorde. All memorable flights!

 

[GBNorman]

777; the most beautifully proportioned aircraft Mr. Boeing put on this earth.

Was it ever an experience to fly on a one month old United 777-300 ORD-MUC last August. It still smelt new. Their Polaris Business Class is a superb product. One having "been there", hard to go back to "The Gulag" on an overseas flight.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

777; the most beautifully proportioned aircraft Mr. Boeing put on this earth. Was it ever an experience to fly on a one month old United 777-300 ORD-MUC last August. It still smelt new. Their Polaris Business Class is a superb product. One having "been there", hard to go back to "The Gulag" on an overseas flight.

I'd agree that the 773 is a sexy well proportioned aircraft, but the original 772 version was short and stubby to my eyes, especially when viewed head-on from a boarding gate. The funny thing about international coach is that it didn't always suck this bad. For several decades it was simple but still perfectly functional, even for tall people like me. These days coach cabins seem to be sized for children with adult sized coach now being called "premium economy".

 

[GBNorman]

Without getting into a "who knew who", during Aug '16 I found myself MUC-ORD on.a UA 772 upgraded to Global First from paid for Business. The new Polaris is superior to even that.

With the inward facing seats, flightseeing was difficult. Not so with Polaris as it has some modules facing straight forward (all seats are forward facing). There is storage space for your "personal bag" within the module, not so with either a 772's Business or Global.

Oh but meanwhile back in "The Gulag", I did take a hike back there. An Attendant asked what I thought of Polaris. As I walking forward, there was unexpected turbulence so I grabbed the first open Econoseat and buckled up. With 3-4-3 configuration, they're even tighter. How the Attendants get the carts down the asile escapes me. How one can survive an overseas "back there" also escapes me. All I know is that nowadays, if "no dough for Business", it's a "no go".

 

[jis]

The Business Class seats in the ex-UA 3 Class 772s were absolutely hideous, about the worst lie flat Business Class seats I have seen anywhere. Good thing they will eventually get replaced by Polaris seats. They couldn't do so too soon.

Compared to those the Business First seats on the ex-Con 772ERs are much better, as are the Lufthansa Business Class seats.

Of course Polaris Business First seats are better than any of those.

in the 773 Economy, they have the narrowest seats in their entire mainline fleet. At exactly 17" those seats are 0.2" to 0.3" narrower than those on the 737s. Unfortunately though, that is not out of line with general practice in the intercontinental fleet on 777s these days.

For that reason, while traveling in Coach I try to avoid 777s and prefer to lean towards A380s wherever I can. The way 777s are laid out in the back, they are just not particularly attractive. The A380s have wider seats and while at it, they are much much quieter than the 777 too. Indeed if I have to choose a Boeing aircraft for intercontinental flights in the back, my choice today would be the 747-8i or 787s, not the 777.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

While traveling in Coach I try to avoid 777s and prefer to lean towards A380s wherever I can. The way 777s are laid out in the back, they are just not particularly attractive. The A380s have wider seats and while at it, they are much much quieter than the 777 too. Indeed if I have to choose a Boeing aircraft for intercontinental flights in the back, my choice today would be the 747-8i or 787s, not the 777.

That was my plan as well, and for a few years I focused on booking A388's and B788's almost exclusively. There was always a risk that I'd miss a connection or suffer an equipment swap and get bumped into a sardine pitch B777, but for the most part it worked out well. Then one day I was boarding a B789 and ended up with a seat that felt surprisingly similar in to a 777. I wasn't stuck in the last few rows of the cabin where measurements tend to get sloppy so I was surprised at how confining it felt. It wasn't quite as bad as a 777, but still bad enough to make the flight really uncomfortable. At that point I realized the gig was up. If 789's can't be counted on to provide decent pitch then it's only a matter of time before the 788's are reconditioned to match. A388's still have decent width and pitch, last I checked anyway, but they're largely limited to a handful of slot restricted airports. Supposedly the A350 still has good seat width, but every time an airline widens the passenger cabin cross section the interior fabricators get busy looking for ways to shove more seats inside.

 

[jis]

350 is down to 17.1" on many airlines now. So no dice there either.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Maybe the airlines need to put those height measurement things @ Gates that are used @ Amusement Parks to measure kids to determine if adults will fit into the cattlecar,er seat they are ticketed for?

 

[Devil's Advocate]

350 is down to 17.1" on many airlines now. So no dice there either.

Looks like SQ, CX, OZ, and TG are all 32/18 in Y, which can be workable with some slimline seats. LH is 31/17, so I won't be flying them regardless of seat design.

Maybe the airlines need to put those height measurement things @ Gates that are used @ Amusement Parks to measure kids to determine if adults will fit into the cattlecar,er seat they are ticketed for?

If someone hasn't flown in a few years they probably have no idea just how bad the coach cabin has become. Airlines should be forced to place demo seats and rows in the airport so you can test fly their ****** economy class product before you buy.

 

[XHRTSP]

Airlines should be forced to place demo seats and rows in the airport so you can test fly their ****** economy class product before you buy.

I have a better idea. Amtrak should rent advertising space at airports in cities they serve, and place demos of their seats side by side with airline seats.

Oh, and just to stay on topic, congrats on the upgrade. See you on 123.45.

 

[MARC Rider]

. How one can survive an overseas "back there" also escapes me.

I'm booked on a IAD - PEK round trip on a government fare, which means I'll probably get to experience it and report back, unless I can find an upgrade (out of my own pocket) for a reasonable cost.

But I've flown 12 hours from JFK - TLV in a 707 and lived to tell the tale, so surely I can deal with this.

 

[jis]

I have flown EWR - TLV in the back of ex-Con 777-200ERs, and that was not too bad in United Y+. But then again I am short enough to be able to sleep comfortably in those seats.

But still for my trips to India (either MCO - EWR - DEL/BOM nonstop - CCU or EWR/MCO - FRA - DEL/BOM - CCU) I pony up the Business-First fare and in principle consider the difference between it and Coach fare as investment in my health and quality of life.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

How one can survive an overseas "back there" also escapes me.

I'm booked on a IAD - PEK round trip on a government fare, which means I'll probably get to experience it and report back, unless I can find an upgrade (out of my own pocket) for a reasonable cost. But I've flown 12 hours from JFK - TLV in a 707 and lived to tell the tale, so surely I can deal with this.

Isn't that a bit like saying you're sure you'll be fine in a Fiat 500 seat because you once drove a 1960's Mercedes long distance? I haven't flown IAD-PEK but I have flown JFK-NRT (14hr vs 14.5hr) and it's nothing to scoff at with today's knee crushing economy seats, indifferent hands tied staff, and angry recline-mashing passengers.

 

[XHRTSP]

Let's see if I can compete in the 'whose trip in coach sucked the most' contest.

XJD-MHZ-BGR-DYS, 7123nm, middle seat on an Omni DC-10, between two fat guys the whole way.

 

[railiner]

Until you've ridden from New York to Fairbanks on a bus....(5 days

)...you have little to complain about..

But I was 47 years younger in 1970...

.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Let's see if I can compete in the 'whose trip in coach sucked the most' contest. XJD-MHZ-BGR-DYS, 7123nm, middle seat on an Omni DC-10, between two fat guys the whole way.

I know you intended for this to be a tale of despair and disgust, but all I can think is where can I get a ride on a DC-10 today?

 

[Bob Dylan]

Let's see if I can compete in the 'whose trip in coach sucked the most' contest. XJD-MHZ-BGR-DYS, 7123nm, middle seat on an Omni DC-10, between two fat guys the whole way.

I know you intended for this to be a tale of despair and disgust, but all I can think is where can I get a ride on a DC-10 today?

IINM Fed-EX is still flying some DC-10s, and perhaps some Banana Republic Airlines might be also???

 

[jis]

Also Banana Republic outfits like US Air Force too