Meeting my new love - The Boeing 777

[B757Guy]

Yep, it certainly can, and we train over and over again for just that sort of emergency.

Happy to answer any 777 or 757/767 questions. Fire away!

 

[railiner]

Any question?

How many rivets in a 777-300?

Naaah,,,,just kidding......

 

[B757Guy]

More than 60,000!

 

[GBNorman]

The 777-300 is the most beautifully proportioned aircraft God and Mr. Boeing ever put on this planet.

To be positioned and holding for takeoff on KORD 28L and those massive engines are putting G-forces on me is quite sensational.

While I don't know which of the "big three" you are with, if United, your Polaris Business Class I think is superb.

Congratulations Captain on your promotion. I presume you are Senior enough to hold a Captaincy on the 777.

 

[B757Guy]

The 777-300 is the most beautifully proportioned aircraft God and Mr. Boeing ever put on this planet.

To be positioned and holding for takeoff on KORD 28L and those massive engines are putting G-forces on me is quite sensational.

While I don't know which of the "big three" you are with, if United, your Polaris Business Class I think is superb.

Congratulations Captain on your promotion. I presume you are Senior enough to hold a Captaincy on the 777.

Thank you, and yeah, it's been 24 years with the airline, and one survived merger, and my 3rd Boeing type rating. Lots of miles, and water under the bridge. Still not senior enough to get most of the holidays off, but getting closer!

The 777 is beautiful, but my heart still flutters when I see the 747. Sadly, we retired them recently. Got to sit in the jump seat a bunch of times, and fly the sim a few as well.

 

[railiner]

B757Guy, this one's for you....

https://youtu.be/aDHBbUhh9OM

 

[Bob Dylan]

I'm a 747 and Concorde Fan myself, but for durability, one can't beat the DC-3/C-47, still Soldiering on after 80+ years.

 

[B757Guy]

B757Guy, this one's for you....

https://youtu.be/aDHBbUhh9OM

Love it!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Respectfully disagree, and not defending NYC.

Most of my flying is from the US to europe and the middle east. I can tell you, Mumbai has some very testy ATC people, so does Frankfurt, Paris and Rome. It's certainly not isolated to any one part of the world/city, and to single any one place out. and suggest that is the worst, is unfair.

I'll add FRA, CDG, and FCO to my ATC feed list and see if any of them strike me as being similar to JFK.

The 777-300 is the most beautifully proportioned aircraft...

For me it's the A346.

Still not senior enough to get most of the holidays off, but getting closer!

There are some downsides to having a corporate desk job, but on the plus side I can't remember the last time I had to be at work for the holidays.

 

[B757Guy]

Respectfully disagree, and not defending NYC.

Most of my flying is from the US to europe and the middle east. I can tell you, Mumbai has some very testy ATC people, so does Frankfurt, Paris and Rome. It's certainly not isolated to any one part of the world/city, and to single any one place out. and suggest that is the worst, is unfair.

I'll add FRA, CDG, and FCO to my ATC feed list and see if any of them strike me as being similar to JFK.

LOL, we need to get you a new hobby! You actually listen to ATC? I guess it can be interesting, but I love when I'm over the ocean, and don't have all that noise in my ears!

The 777-300 is the most beautifully proportioned aircraft...

For me it's the A346.

Still not senior enough to get most of the holidays off, but getting closer!

There are some downsides to having a corporate desk job, but on the plus side I can't remember the last time I had to be at work for the holidays.

 

[jis]

Respectfully disagree, and not defending NYC.

Most of my flying is from the US to europe and the middle east. I can tell you, Mumbai has some very testy ATC people, so does Frankfurt, Paris and Rome. It's certainly not isolated to any one part of the world/city, and to single any one place out. and suggest that is the worst, is unfair.

I'll add FRA, CDG, and FCO to my ATC feed list and see if any of them strike me as being similar to JFK.

It should also be noted that the BOM guys have to work under conditions that makes NYC look like utter luxury too. They are actually way more overloaded for the facilities available to them than NYC ever is.

DEL can get pretty bad too, but I understand that BOM is usually worse.

 

[B757Guy]

Respectfully disagree, and not defending NYC.

Most of my flying is from the US to europe and the middle east. I can tell you, Mumbai has some very testy ATC people, so does Frankfurt, Paris and Rome. It's certainly not isolated to any one part of the world/city, and to single any one place out. and suggest that is the worst, is unfair.

I'll add FRA, CDG, and FCO to my ATC feed list and see if any of them strike me as being similar to JFK.

It should also be noted that the BOM guys have to work under conditions that makes NYC look like utter luxury too. They are actually way more overloaded for the facilities available to them than NYC ever is.

DEL can get pretty bad too, but I understand that BOM is usually worse.

Was just in BOM last week. Long flight... They do a great job, given the limitations they have

 

[Devil's Advocate]

LOL, we need to get you a new hobby! You actually listen to ATC? I guess it can be interesting, but I love when I'm over the ocean, and don't have all that noise in my ears!

Sometimes I'll listen to ATC when I have a big trip coming up to get me in the mood for the long journey ahead. Or if I'm feeling sluggish I'll sometimes use ATC as a sort of background noise feed at work. The audio chatter puts me in the mood to be busy and the conversations are so short they're rarely distracting. I was originally exposed to ATC communications by UA's CH9. Back in the day it was mentioned in printed materials and on the public address system. Over time the flight deck seemed to enable it less and less often. After the merger with CO I began to lose track of which aircraft still had CH9 functionality and the newer IFE systems didn't seem to have it enabled in any obvious way.

Respectfully disagree, and not defending NYC.

Most of my flying is from the US to europe and the middle east. I can tell you, Mumbai has some very testy ATC people, so does Frankfurt, Paris and Rome. It's certainly not isolated to any one part of the world/city, and to single any one place out. and suggest that is the worst, is unfair.

I'll add FRA, CDG, and FCO to my ATC feed list and see if any of them strike me as being similar to JFK.

It should also be noted that the BOM guys have to work under conditions that makes NYC look like utter luxury too. They are actually way more overloaded for the facilities available to them than NYC ever is.

DEL can get pretty bad too, but I understand that BOM is usually worse.

I recently read a brief article on Mumbai's aircraft movements...

Mumbai's Chhatrapati Shivaji International Airport hosted 969 take-offs and landings over 24 hours, the most ever for a single-runway airport and surpassing its previous high of 935.

Although I respect the level of effort involved I personally find hyper dense runway configurations at major airports to be a traveler turnoff.

 

[jis]

Respectfully disagree, and not defending NYC.

Most of my flying is from the US to europe and the middle east. I can tell you, Mumbai has some very testy ATC people, so does Frankfurt, Paris and Rome. It's certainly not isolated to any one part of the world/city, and to single any one place out. and suggest that is the worst, is unfair.

I'll add FRA, CDG, and FCO to my ATC feed list and see if any of them strike me as being similar to JFK.

It should also be noted that the BOM guys have to work under conditions that makes NYC look like utter luxury too. They are actually way more overloaded for the facilities available to them than NYC ever is.

DEL can get pretty bad too, but I understand that BOM is usually worse.

Was just in BOM last week. Long flight... They do a great job, given the limitations they have

I will be passing through BOM transiting United to Jet Airways, second week of Jan, and then Jet to United end of Jan on the way back.

At BOM ATC, I got the feeling that the Indian Pilots can be much worse pains in the rear end than anything I have heard in the US too.

 

[B757Guy]

Respectfully disagree, and not defending NYC.

Most of my flying is from the US to europe and the middle east. I can tell you, Mumbai has some very testy ATC people, so does Frankfurt, Paris and Rome. It's certainly not isolated to any one part of the world/city, and to single any one place out. and suggest that is the worst, is unfair.

I'll add FRA, CDG, and FCO to my ATC feed list and see if any of them strike me as being similar to JFK.

It should also be noted that the BOM guys have to work under conditions that makes NYC look like utter luxury too. They are actually way more overloaded for the facilities available to them than NYC ever is.

DEL can get pretty bad too, but I understand that BOM is usually worse.

Was just in BOM last week. Long flight... They do a great job, given the limitations they have

I will be passing through BOM transiting United to Jet Airways, second week of Jan, and then Jet to United end of Jan on the way back.

At BOM ATC, I got the feeling that the Indian Pilots can be much worse pains in the rear end than anything I have heard in the US too.

Are you doing EWR-BOM?? I may be your pilot

 

[jis]

See PM for details

 

[saxman]

Capt 57, possibly this is a matter not to be addressed at a public forum, but I've always wondered if a loaded for takeoff 72 or 3, was right at V1, and lost an engine, could it still do so and gain enough altitude to safely return?

V1 is the the speed every flight is predicated on. As long as the aircraft is below a certain calculated weight for any particular runway the aircraft can loose an engine at its worst possible moment, V1, and still climb on a single engine to clear the opposite end of the runway by at least 35 feet. It's also designed to clear any obstacles beyond the runway and climb to a safe altitude on one engine.

V1 is takeoff decision speed. During the takeoff roll if any engines fail or other emergency arises we can abort the takeoff and still have enough runway to stop if it happens before that V1 speed. If we've gone past that speed, it's a go no matter what. So we practice loosing and engine right after V1 and continuing the climb out in the simulator, known as "V1 Cuts." This is something I'll be practicing tomorrow and the next day in my new aircraft, the Embraer-175.

 

[B757Guy]

Capt 57, possibly this is a matter not to be addressed at a public forum, but I've always wondered if a loaded for takeoff 72 or 3, was right at V1, and lost an engine, could it still do so and gain enough altitude to safely return?

V1 is the the speed every flight is predicated on. As long as the aircraft is below a certain calculated weight for any particular runway the aircraft can loose an engine at its worst possible moment, V1, and still climb on a single engine to clear the opposite end of the runway by at least 35 feet. It's also designed to clear any obstacles beyond the runway and climb to a safe altitude on one engine.

V1 is takeoff decision speed. During the takeoff roll if any engines fail or other emergency arises we can abort the takeoff and still have enough runway to stop if it happens before that V1 speed. If we've gone past that speed, it's a go no matter what. So we practice loosing and engine right after V1 and continuing the climb out in the simulator, known as "V1 Cuts." This is something I'll be practicing tomorrow and the next day in my new aircraft, the Embraer-175.

Congrats on the upgrade to the 175!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Happy to answer any 777 or 757/767 questions. Fire away!

Was there a specific incident or event that brought the 757 under the "heavy" class designation? Do you believe the 757 and 767 would have featured substantially increased efficiency and operational flexibility (at the expense of crew commonality) if they were designed independently without sharing resources and design decisions during active development? Can a 777 measure its weight while on the ground? How much does a 777's satellite communication dome impact fuel consumption? If a 757 passenger aircraft suffers a fault that prevents it from depressurizing and I attempt to open one of the plug doors after the aircraft has landed what happens? Let's assume the flight reached FL350 before the fault occurred, we landed near sea level, the door is disarmed, and I have infinite leverage to bear on the door handle.

 

[B757Guy]

Typically, the FAA designates any aircraft with a Max Takeoff Weight (MTOW) of 300,000lbs or greater as a "heavy" due to the wake turbulence they generate. The 757 is unique, in that it it's MTOW is around 256,000lbs, But, a series of incidents with smaller aircraft, that unfortunately crashed after encountering a 757's wake, caused the FAA to designate the 757 as a "heavy" so as to ensure proper separation.

With regards to the 757 and 767 being developed separately, I think it's best to look at the state of the industry when the 757 especially was being developed. It was designed to replace the 727, and with regards to that mission, it was a success. The 767 was Boeing's first CRT/2 person aircraft, and was also a direct response to Airbus and their A300. Collectively, over 2000 of the types were built, and are considered a success. Both provided technologies and design elements that led to the 787 and 777.

The 777 FMC like any Boeing, afaik, needs the ZFW (zero fuel weight) manually entered or uplinked. Then it knows the fuel weight so then it knows it’s actual weight. With regards to the SAT dome fuel question. I actually have no idea! I'd have to look at the engineering manuals.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Thank you for your answers. I kept hoping you'd eventually remark on the pressurized plug door manipulation inquiry. For most of my life I believed it was virtually impossible to open a plug door while the cabin was still pressurized. My understanding was that even if you were infinitely strong you'd simply end up breaking the door's massive handle long before you could force the rest of the mechanism to actuate. But I've also heard there have been instances of defective depressurization valves leading to staff being thrown out onto the tarmac after operating the door of an unintentionally pressurized cabin. That seems to throw a bit of a monkey wrench into the original understanding, and leaves me wondering if the critical factor is that the cabin was not fully pressurized or that it didn't have any fast moving air mass along the outer skin.

 

[fanjet]

Hi B757Guy

Congrats on your upgrade to the B777.

Having recently retired from aircraft maintenance, I would have to say that the triple was my favorite plane to work on. I was a technician until June, 2001 & then went to work in maintenance planning.

Sent from my iPad using Amtrak Forum

 

[XHRTSP]

I doubt that's going away any time soon. CPDLC in the US for enroute purposes is probably going to take a little while longer. Even in Europe you still have to check in between centers regardless of CPDLC login status.

I wasn't aware of this new technology....(I just Googled it)....sort of an expansion of ACARS, eh?

I'm not 100% on the nuts and bolts, but that'd be like saying text messaging is an expansion of email. From just a flat out user perspective, in can kind of appear that that is the case.

Our interaction with ATC via ACARS is basically limited to retrieving ATIS and our departure clearance at participating airports, and retrieving our oceanic clearance before crossing the North Atlantic. Most ACARS functions involve communicating with the company.

CPDLC essentially replaces talking over the radio with ATC. They can give us frequency changes, headings, altitude changes, direct to fixes, reroutes, a warning that a North Korean ballistic missile was heading in our direction, etc. And we too can communicate back with them. This is especially useful over the water where otherwise we'd have to talk over varying qualities of HF frequencies.

 

[railiner]

Thanks for that explanation....so you still use HF over the ocean, and not satcom voice?

 

[XHRTSP]

Thanks for that explanation....so you still use HF over the ocean, and not satcom voice?

Before coast out we will tune up the appropriate facility on HF and ensure we can establish comms with them. If one of our two HF radios is deferred, then the procedure would be to use the sat phone as a backup. In addition to the HF check, we would need to dial up the facility and make sure they have our phone number and we can make calls both ways.