Metra to convert locomotives to battery power

[MisterUptempo]

But Metra already has electrified lines and electric trains so there isn't really any need to demonstrate any case. It's just a case of convincing the powers that be that they need more of this.

That's been my point all along. Metra will have to convince politicians, decision makers, the Class Is, and likely many of their own employees, that electrification is the best alternative, despite its enormous upfront costs. And Metra has probably heard the refrain, "What about battery powered locomotives? They'd be cheaper." from every one of them, at some time or other.

Metra doesn't need to prove that electrification is practical. They need to demonstrate that battery powered locomotives for a commuter/aspiring regional railroad aren't the way forward.

 

[Karl1459]

My guess is the way things will play out is as a stand-alone locomotive they will be worthless due to too little range and too much recharging time. As a acceleration booster and regenerative braking energy recovery unit paired with a diesel-electric unit on heavy trains they may have some value.

 

[west point]

Up to this time batteries seem to have a limited number of times for charge discharge cycles. As well partial discharge / charge counted the same as full cycle. Hope new battery tech will not be subject to these limitations otherwise the many cycles will limit batterylife.

 

[MisterUptempo]

Can't say I'm surprised, or upset, frankly, by this development.

Metra faces delay in plan for battery conversion of F40s​

CHICAGO — Metra’s plan to convert at least three of its oldest F40PH-3 diesel locomotives to battery power is on hold after the commuter operator was “not able to secure an agreement” on a contract, Metra CEO/Executive Director Jim Derwinski said Friday.

Derwinski, responding to a question during a joint presentation with South Shore President/General Manager Mike Noland, said the transit agency was “looking to redo” the project.

Metra spokesman Michael Gillis said today (Monday, Feb. 20) that has “not been able to reach an agreement with Progress Rail, the manufacturer that was awarded the initial contract. Our intention now is to try again by issuing a new [Request for Proposal] later this year, probably in the summer.”

More of the story at trains.com

As an aside, a presentation by Metra's Jim Derwinski, before Metra and Progress Rail reached the current impasse, appears to indicate the routes where the testing of the battery locos would, and may in future, have taken place-

-UP North, from Ogilvie to Winnetka
-Milwaukee District North, between Lake Forest and Fox Lake
-Milwaukee District West, between Union Station and Franklin Park
-Rock Island District, between LaSalle Street Station and Blue Island-Vermont on the Beverly Branch

The Milwaukee West surprises me, especially with regards to liability, considering Metra is only a tenant at Union; the same liability concerns on the UP-North, a line Metra does not own.

 

[John819]

Batteries seem to be a short-range solution to issues such as no-diesel in NYP. But there are still a lot of problems with them. Note that a battery powered bus in Hartford was destroyed by a battery fire that took hours and thousands of gallons of water to extinguish. They should hold off on any changes until we get some results from the hydrogen / fuel cell trains operating in Germany (of course, when you combine the words "hydrogen," "Germany," and some means of transportation in a single sentence a certain image comes to mind!).

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

I just don't see battery operation, particularly in winter, as a realistic option - it almost seems like a gimmick or greenwashing. It makes more sense to electrify and be done with it - no batteries to worry about, multiple power source options, tried and true technology (and yeah, I know my line is 'out of date' electrically but it would be possible to get more common rolling stock - obviously more issues than just voltage since only MED has level boarding with high level platforms, etc).

 

[Dutchrailnut]

Hydrogen is not a fuel , its a media, it has to be created with lots of electricity. As for places like GCT - NYP etc. Hydrogen would certainly not be option. I can guarantee the NYFD will not sign off on it , even Lithium batteries raise more questions specially in closed spaces

 

[west point]

my worry is Li ION batters are fine in warm weather. Now as to north Dakota winter weather ??? If one of the batteries gets cracked and shorts out a small portion the reaction can spread The RR environment is very likely rough track. Shaking and baking.

 

[jiml]

It was funny to see the title of this thread next to the one about battery fires on airplanes in the daily summary. I know, apples and oranges but still impossible to ignore.

 

[John819]

Hydrogen is not a fuel , its a media, it has to be created with lots of electricity. As for places like GCT - NYP etc. Hydrogen would certainly not be option. I can guarantee the NYFD will not sign off on it , even Lithium batteries raise more questions specially in closed spaces

Any fire department would rather deal with a hydrogen fire (not much different than an LPG fire) than a lithium battery fire. Of course, having neither is far, far preferable!

 

[Dutchrailnut]

remember how NYFD refused RTL turbo's in NYP after fire , the LIRR FL-9's had to have fuel cell sponges in fuel tanks as do DM units.
I will guarantee NYFD will refuse hydrogen in tunnels .

 

[west point]

I would like a list of battery powered locos that have been built since 1900. Cost, operating costs, rated HP, endurance for each of 1 - 10 years of service if lasted that long, type of battery, charging time, etc. Why they were retired ?

 

[MARC Rider]

my worry is Li ION batters are fine in warm weather. Now as to north Dakota winter weather ??? If one of the batteries gets cracked and shorts out a small portion the reaction can spread The RR environment is very likely rough track. Shaking and baking.

The Norwegians seem to be fine with Li ion battery electric cars -- most of the new car sales there are battery electrics. Now battery electric locomotives may be a different kettle if fish, but it seems like they're doing a lot of engineering work on improving battery performance.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

Plenty of electric cars all over , but also many fires every day . and percentage wise the electric load on those sure are far less that a Locomotive.

https://www.tesla-fire.com/

 

[MARC Rider]

Plenty of electric cars all over , but also many fires every day . and percentage wise the electric load on those sure are far less that a Locomotive.

https://www.tesla-fire.com/

That list just summarizes Teslas. There are now many other brands on the market, and Teslas are "juice guzzlers" (hey, I just invented a term!) compared to some of the others. After 2 weeks of engineering conferences a couple of months ago, I wasn't hearing anybody talk about battery fires as a major problem with battery-electric vehicles. Most of the talks I heard were more concerned about whether the electric grid could handle the increased load from recharging all the batteries.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

The Norwegians seem to be fine with Li ion battery electric cars -- most of the new car sales there are battery electrics. Now battery electric locomotives may be a different kettle if fish, but it seems like they're doing a lot of engineering work on improving battery performance.

Norway has overhead electrical catenary even so far north as it’s last mainline station on its network. So no need for a battery power locomotive.

That list just summarizes Teslas. There are now many other brands on the market, and Teslas are "juice guzzlers" (hey, I just invented a term!) compared to some of the others. After 2 weeks of engineering conferences a couple of months ago, I wasn't hearing anybody talk about battery fires as a major problem with battery-electric vehicles. Most of the talks I heard were more concerned about whether the electric grid could handle the increased load from recharging all the batteries.

I think there two issues about the grid. One is in a city environment if the grid can handle the recharging. Us folk in the sticks, just need to add a few more panels on the roof, with a battery pack on the wall to storage to charge our cars after the sun sets.

 

[PVD]

Keep in mind that in applications where space and energy density are less critical, Lithium Iron Phosphate does pretty well and is not subject to the thermal runaway issues of other lithium chemistries.

 

[joelkfla]

Us folk in the sticks, just need to add a few more panels on the roof, with a battery pack on the wall to storage to charge our cars after the sun sets.

Unless you live in Seattle (40" rain annually) or someplace where the roof is covered by snow half the year.

 

[John819]

The frequency of lithium battery fires (in general) is low, but the results can be catastrophic. The seriousness of the fire is dependent on one variable - the joules of energy contained in the battery. The size of a locomotive battery would far exceed that of the bus that incinerated itself in Hartford, CT:



I don't see the FDNY being in favor of battery powered trains in NYP!

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

Sounds like both Chicago and Juneau have trouble with electric buses: In Chicago, Adapting Electric Buses to Winter’s Challenges

 

[Crowbar_k]

https://metra.com/newsroom/metra-receive-1693m-grant-zero-emission-trainsets
I'm glad that locomotive conversation idea got dropped and now they are actually doing something smart. I'm guessing they are going to be Stadler Akkus.

 

[Crowbar_k]

According to this, it sounds like Beverly Branch is going to be converted into a quasi light rail line. This is something I've been dreaming about for years. If this is done right, it could turn one of the worst served areas of the city by transit, into one of the best.

 

[cirdan]

I like this. The oldest probably pollute more so this will be a benefit.

OTOH, the oldest equipment is the most worn out and thus not likely to last very far into the future, meaning there will be less return on the investment.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

I know I'm responding to some old comments (and after my last comment) regarding Norway:

1. Norway has a strong electrical grid.
2. While they did produce an electric car recently - the Th!nk (and historically there was a car named the Troll as well as locally produced Dodge and, iirc, Fords) - they aren't manufacturing the cars & batteries unless I'm way off on my knowledge.
3. Norway, being coastal, isn't severely cold even in the far north.
4. At risk of being pedantic, the line to Narvik, the Malmbanan, is mostly within Sweden and doesn't connect to the Nordland Line to Bodø, which is diesel (and completed in like '62).

 

[jis]

Here is an informative article in Trains Mag on the current state of affairs in using Battery Power in railroad application.

https://www.trains.com/trn/railroad...owered-locomotives-continue-to-gain-momentum/