Metroliner Resurrection?

Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Status
Not open for further replies.

NE933

Conductor
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
1,120
Location
Queens, New York
Conference Car 9800 has brand new Metroliner decals on it, and the drab navy/teal is more like a deep indigo. Much better looking!!

Now the big question: will Amtrak drop the 'Northeast Regional' and revert back to the beloved legendary name 'Metroliner' for it's non-Acela trains??!! (crossing my fingers)
 
Wouldn't make sense. "Metroliner" was the name for the premium service, not the regular trains.
 
Conference Car 9800 has brand new Metroliner decals on it, and the drab navy/teal is more like a deep indigo. Much better looking!!

Now the big question: will Amtrak drop the 'Northeast Regional' and revert back to the beloved legendary name 'Metroliner' for it's non-Acela trains??!! (crossing my fingers)
Other than for nostalgia, I don't see the point in doing that. "Northeast Regional" is a dull name, but at least it's descriptive

and one would assume somewhat "known" by now. Reverting to Metroliner would be confusing since many people would

remember it as a premium service.
 
Why not move Acela up and then have Metroliner as a premium service that isn't as high speed? There is about a $100 spread between a low bucket NER train and an Acela between WAS and NYP.

I've always liked the Metroliner name.
 
Conference Car 9800 has brand new Metroliner decals on it, and the drab navy/teal is more like a deep indigo. Much better looking!!

Now the big question: will Amtrak drop the 'Northeast Regional' and revert back to the beloved legendary name 'Metroliner' for it's non-Acela trains??!! (crossing my fingers)
Why would Amtrak rebrand the NorthEast Regionals, including trains that run to Lynchburg, Richmond, and Newport News as Metroliners?

The reason for the Metroliner decals on the conference car may simply be to maintain the copyrights to the name by keeping it displayed and in use, albeit in a very limited fashion.
 
Metroliner is part of the Metro system which serves only the DC area, no? :wacko:
No. Metroliner was the name for the original Penn Central high speed service between New York and Washington, and was also the name for the electric multiple unit cars that were used for the service. Amtrak took over the service in 1971. Later, the electric MU's were demoted to Keystone service, and the Metroliner service was provided by AEM7 and Amfleet cars. The Amfleet cars used for Metroliner coach were lower seating density than regular coaches. Those cars are now used for business class in NE Regionals and other trains. Metroliner Club service used the two-one seating cars that are now so coveted as business class on longer distance trains.

The Metroliner name was phased out as Acela came into service. It made a comeback in 2004 when a serious brake issue sidelined all the Acela sets. Amtrak scraped together enough old Metroliner cars to cover most of the Acela schedule, and reused the name Metroliner. After the brake issue was fixed, Acela came back to life, and the Metroliner went back into the history books.
 
Metroliner is part of the Metro system which serves only the DC area, no? :wacko:
No. Metroliner was the name for the original Penn Central high speed service ...

I'm guessing Cho Cho Charlie was aware of that...but was simply pointing out one of the huge flaws of the name

"Metroliner," i.e. the potential for sounding like an express train from L'Enfant Plaza to Greenbelt (for example.)

For many people "Metro" = "urban rapid transit" not "intercity premium train."
 
I'm pretty sure (and I can't recall where I read this, probably here somewhere) that Amtrak keeps a car around painted up like that (and with all of the other trademarks that Amtrak has used) to maintain use of the brand name so that they maintain the rights to it.

I'm not a lawyer, but it's something along those lines.
 
The Metroliners were several steps ahead of teh Acela. There problem from the beginning was that they never had much track on which they could truly stretch their legs. By the time there began to be enough track that was good enough for them to begin to truly show thier stuff, ti was decided that they should be replaced rather than updated.

These things were very tolerant of the marginal track conditions on which they had to operate. My one trip on one, Baltimore to Washington just for the sake of the experience, was facinating. In those more casual days, it was possible to look over the engineer's shoulder if the door was open. We were running 114 mph across the turnouts at Bowie interlocking. The tie condition was so bad I would have considered anything over around 40 mph pushing your luck. Yes, there was a pretty good bounce or two, but nothing that felt like we were in danger of going off. I know the tie condition as a couple of weeks before I had ben on the ground at that location. the tracks outside the interlocking had good ties, but replacing switchties took a good deal more time each, so replacement of switchties resuled in low production rates which made the bean counters unhappy.

The service was treated as top class by all. Engineers and any other memebers of the crew that did not have a standard uninform for their position were required to wear a suit and tie.
 
Two guesses:

1. It's part of the Heritage schemes for the 40th anniversary.

2. It's an effort to keep Metroliner as a trademark/

Or it's both, just as UP uses its Heritage locomotives to keep a lock on C&NW, SP, MKT, MP, D&RGW, etc. trademarks.
 
Preservation of the trademark 'Metroliner', or 'Wikabratz', or whatever name, by operating a vehicle with the wording on it doesn't make sense because it presumes that the 9800 is being run at a time and place when an observer, specifically somebody who works with trademark law administration, will be present along the route or be riding inside. If no somebody who works with trademark law administration observes the rail vehicle with the 'Metroliner' name is not present to observe, record, and register somewhere of it's active use and thus preservation, is it the same as if Amtrak never stencils the name on it? What's the difference?

As for the debate (if there is one) about calling non-Acela Amtrak N.E. Corridor trains Metroliners, I note the sentiment against it since what are now known as NE Regionals don't offer the same level of on board service as the Metroliners.

But I see the glass as half full: I thought the most stand-out-there aspect of them was the high speeds. NE Reg runs at 125mph, so that's one check mark for what they have in common. They both used Metroliner/Amfleet type cars, so there's another. The seating of both are now comparable to each other: cushy lean backs with folding trays, only difference is the foot rests.

I don't know whether or not Amtrak is going this way, but if they were, they get a thumbs up from me: I think the name 'Metroliner' is way superior over the lengthy tongue-twister 'Northeast Regional', and it won't likely cause confusion. Because Acela has been out for 12 years and regular Metroliner service ended in the early last decade, except for the time the Acela breaks were cracking. So if the mindset of the public market has no squabbles, then the only thing left is benefit. And besides, many of the present business class Amfleet I's with 2-1 seating can easily be resprouted into a Club (or call it First) class service just by purchasing some uniforms and having the cafe attendant remade into Club Cafe attendant. So the way I see it, going to 'Metroliner' can only bolster Amtrak's perception by gaining use of a brand that evokes positive thoughts, on trains that ran with its equipment.

Imagine a Northeast Corridor with Acelas, Metroliners, and Keystones (along with the Virginia trains, and the long distance Crescent and Florida Silver Star/Meteor).
 
Preservation of the trademark 'Metroliner', or 'Wikabratz', or whatever name, by operating a vehicle with the wording on it doesn't make sense because it presumes that the 9800 is being run at a time and place when an observer, specifically somebody who works with trademark law administration, will be present along the route or be riding inside. If no somebody who works with trademark law administration observes the rail vehicle with the 'Metroliner' name is not present to observe, record, and register somewhere of it's active use and thus preservation, is it the same as if Amtrak never stencils the name on it? What's the difference?

As for the debate (if there is one) about calling non-Acela Amtrak N.E. Corridor trains Metroliners, I note the sentiment against it since what are now known as NE Regionals don't offer the same level of on board service as the Metroliners.

But I see the glass as half full: I thought the most stand-out-there aspect of them was the high speeds. NE Reg runs at 125mph, so that's one check mark for what they have in common. They both used Metroliner/Amfleet type cars, so there's another. The seating of both are now comparable to each other: cushy lean backs with folding trays, only difference is the foot rests.

I don't know whether or not Amtrak is going this way, but if they were, they get a thumbs up from me: I think the name 'Metroliner' is way superior over the lengthy tongue-twister 'Northeast Regional', and it won't likely cause confusion. Because Acela has been out for 12 years and regular Metroliner service ended in the early last decade, except for the time the Acela breaks were cracking. So if the mindset of the public market has no squabbles, then the only thing left is benefit. And besides, many of the present business class Amfleet I's with 2-1 seating can easily be resprouted into a Club (or call it First) class service just by purchasing some uniforms and having the cafe attendant remade into Club Cafe attendant. So the way I see it, going to 'Metroliner' can only bolster Amtrak's perception by gaining use of a brand that evokes positive thoughts, on trains that ran with its equipment.

Imagine a Northeast Corridor with Acelas, Metroliners, and Keystones (along with the Virginia trains, and the long distance Crescent and Florida Silver Star/Meteor).
I like your thinking, and couldn't agree more. And with the NER's being as crowded as they are of late, I for one would love the option of 2-1 seating, an attendant, and NOT the super-high price of the ACELA. Same speed (obviously) as NER, but 2-1 seating, service at your seat, and perhaps cocktails included, but not food? Anyway, seems at least on the NEC, there is room for three classes. (of course if you did this, you could eliminate Biz class-less on the NER, just run a NER every other hour, and a newly re-branded Metroliner on the opposite hour.............)

And I'd like to see the Nite Owl return with a sleeper too,....................... OUCH, I just banged my head against a wall, AGAIN.....
laugh.gif
laugh.gif
laugh.gif
 
BP has a few stations that still have "Amoco" and "Standard" signs for the same reason, to protect the trademark. No administrator has to see them. BP just has to prove that such signs exist. Same with Amtrak and Metroliner.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Preservation of the trademark 'Metroliner', or 'Wikabratz', or whatever name, by operating a vehicle with the wording on it doesn't make sense because it presumes that the 9800 is being run at a time and place when an observer, specifically somebody who works with trademark law administration, will be present along the route or be riding inside. If no somebody who works with trademark law administration observes the rail vehicle with the 'Metroliner' name is not present to observe, record, and register somewhere of it's active use and thus preservation, is it the same as if Amtrak never stencils the name on it? What's the difference?

As for the debate (if there is one) about calling non-Acela Amtrak N.E. Corridor trains Metroliners, I note the sentiment against it since what are now known as NE Regionals don't offer the same level of on board service as the Metroliners.

But I see the glass as half full: I thought the most stand-out-there aspect of them was the high speeds. NE Reg runs at 125mph, so that's one check mark for what they have in common. They both used Metroliner/Amfleet type cars, so there's another. The seating of both are now comparable to each other: cushy lean backs with folding trays, only difference is the foot rests.

I don't know whether or not Amtrak is going this way, but if they were, they get a thumbs up from me: I think the name 'Metroliner' is way superior over the lengthy tongue-twister 'Northeast Regional', and it won't likely cause confusion. Because Acela has been out for 12 years and regular Metroliner service ended in the early last decade, except for the time the Acela breaks were cracking. So if the mindset of the public market has no squabbles, then the only thing left is benefit. And besides, many of the present business class Amfleet I's with 2-1 seating can easily be resprouted into a Club (or call it First) class service just by purchasing some uniforms and having the cafe attendant remade into Club Cafe attendant. So the way I see it, going to 'Metroliner' can only bolster Amtrak's perception by gaining use of a brand that evokes positive thoughts, on trains that ran with its equipment.

Imagine a Northeast Corridor with Acelas, Metroliners, and Keystones (along with the Virginia trains, and the long distance Crescent and Florida Silver Star/Meteor).
I like your thinking, and couldn't agree more. And with the NER's being as crowded as they are of late, I for one would love the option of 2-1 seating, an attendant, and NOT the super-high price of the ACELA. Same speed (obviously) as NER, but 2-1 seating, service at your seat, and perhaps cocktails included, but not food? Anyway, seems at least on the NEC, there is room for three classes. (of course if you did this, you could eliminate Biz class-less on the NER, just run a NER every other hour, and a newly re-branded Metroliner on the opposite hour.............)

And I'd like to see the Nite Owl return with a sleeper too,....................... OUCH, I just banged my head against a wall, AGAIN.....
laugh.gif
laugh.gif
laugh.gif

Don't forget the Executive Sleeper!!! :hi:
 
Amtrak scraped together enough old Metroliner cars to cover most of the Acela schedule, and reused the name Metroliner. After the brake issue was fixed, Acela came back to life, and the Metroliner went back into the history books.
Actually Amtrak did more than scrape some cars together during that period, they actually un-did the conversions of the first class cars to Club-Dinettes, converting them back into Metroliner FC cars.

And even after the brakes were fixed, it took just a little over a year before the Metroliner faded into history, making it's final run on October 27th, 2006.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Because Acela has been out for 12 years and regular Metroliner service ended in the early last decade, except for the time the Acela breaks were cracking.
As noted in my post above to PRR60, it wasn't early in the last decade that the Metroliners went bye-bye. They were slowly being phased out prior to the Acela brake debacle, but there were still a few daily runs left in regular service when the brake issue sidelined Acela. Amtrak quickly recalled cars from around the country and started ramping the Metroliner service back up to fill the void. And they started running them to Boston, something that had never been done with any regularity. Amtrak had tried a few experiments, but nothing serious.

When the Acelas started coming back, the Metroliners started fading out once again, until only 1 daily round trip WAS to NYP was left. That final daily round trip took it's very last run on October 27, 2006 and quietly faded into history. :( I was on that last run, along with Trogdor. Anthony was supposed to join us, but got hung up getting to Boston's South Station and therefore missed the connecting train to NY. Here's a small trip report on that final run.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Are there any pictures of 9800 with these decals? Last time I saw 9800 it was at NTD 2010 at PHL with the current paint and IIRC some of the interior was rather outdated toward the 90's interior if I had to guess.
 
On Page 144 of the system timetable, there is a list of all of Amtrak's service marks, from "Acela" to "Wolverine." "Metroliner" is on that list -- not that I'm a lawyer, but it seems to me that listing is probably sufficient for the lawyers to show that Amtrak is still interested in keeping the service mark alive.

(I see some other train names in that list that are no longer in use, but I'll let anyone who's interested look for themselves.)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
On Page 144 of the system timetable, there is a list of all of Amtrak's service marks, from "Acela" to "Wolverine." "Metroliner" is on that list -- not that I'm a lawyer, but it seems to me that listing is probably sufficient for the lawyers to show that Amtrak is still interested in keeping the service mark alive.

(I see some other train names in that list that are no longer in use, but I'll let anyone who's interested look for themselves.)
A bit OT, but anyway...

Choo Choo Chewies? Seriously, Amtrak?
 
Now see, that's pretty.

There are a lot of good feelings and brand recognition out there for Metroliner service. Amtrak should capitalize on that.
 
Because Acela has been out for 12 years and regular Metroliner service ended in the early last decade, except for the time the Acela breaks were cracking.
As noted in my post above to PRR60, it wasn't early in the last decade that the Metroliners went bye-bye. They were slowly being phased out prior to the Acela brake debacle, but there were still a few daily runs left in regular service when the brake issue sidelined Acela. Amtrak quickly recalled cars from around the country and started ramping the Metroliner service back up to fill the void. And they started running them to Boston, something that had never been done with any regularity. Amtrak had tried a few experiments, but nothing serious.

When the Acelas started coming back, the Metroliners started fading out once again, until only 1 daily round trip WAS to NYP was left. That final daily round trip took it's very last run on October 27, 2006 and quietly faded into history. :( I was on that last run, along with Trogdor. Anthony was supposed to join us, but got hung up getting to Boston's South Station and therefore missed the connecting train to NY. Here's a small trip report on that final run.
Alan,

I've got to say that your run reminds me of the story about the last run of the Twentieth Century Limited (most pointedly the delay due to a broken down train).

As to the branding and/or putting in a "middle market" service, I think it would be a good idea. Amtrak is running into lots of capacity issues with the Acelas, and something is screwed up when the best service between Richmond and Washington happens to be Florida-bound. Honestly, I'd throw in an extra $20 on top of the BC charge to have 2-1 seating when heading out of Richmond, and a bit more for a respectable meal option (the Panache food is a big improvement over the pizzas and burgers available now) coming out of Virginia.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I feel that Amtrak should eliminate business class, and just have Coach and Club Car/Sleepers for First Class. It simplifies things (including fleet management and sales) and during the '80's it was like that and it worked just fine.
 
I feel that Amtrak should eliminate business class, and just have Coach and Club Car/Sleepers for First Class. It simplifies things (including fleet management and sales) and during the '80's it was like that and it worked just fine.
Amtrak has always had business class, even during the '80's. They just didn't call it business class back then. It was called Custom Class and First Class was called Club Class.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top