Michigan Central Station and Amtrak including service through Canada

[dlagrua]

Michigan Central Station was once a hub of activity in Detroits Corktown area. It was an Amtrak stop until around 1987 when the railroad pulled out, left the station unused and it closed. During its years of abandonment thieves stripped out just about every wire, plumbing pipe and it was heavily vandalized. Finally the Ford Motor Company came to the rescue and saved this magnificent building from the wrecking ball. It will be a billion dollar investment to restore the building to its former glory but I read that completion may only be a year or less away. Tracks still run behind the building and IMO it might be easy restoring train service there. It could be a win win for Ford, Amtrak and for passengers traveling to Detroit. That building was built to be a beautiful station and just needs a train. I just wonder if Amtrak would approach Ford and consider restoring service there.
Michigan Central Station

 

[jiml]

I agree with you, but I believe the subject was covered at length in a previous thread (which I can't find right now). It was also discussed in a thread about a proposed service from Detroit (probably originating in Chicago) to Toronto. The use of this station is important since the CP tunnel access is nearby.

 

[Eric S]

The city and state seem to be doubling down on the existing station location. I don't know if the project is fully funded yet but tens of millions of dollars have been committed, as far as I can recall.

Here's more info about the project:

https://www.michigan.gov/mdot/proje...nkages-studies/new-center-intermodal-facility

 

[jis]

There is considerable discussion on this subject in the following thread, among other things:

https://www.amtraktrains.com/thread...detroit-river-tunnel.80774/page-2#post-938142

 

[jiml]

There is considerable discussion on this subject in the following thread, among other things:

https://www.amtraktrains.com/thread...detroit-river-tunnel.80774/page-2#post-938142

Thank you. That's one of the two threads I'd been looking for as mentioned above.

 

[dlagrua]

After reading the comments on both this and the 2022 thread, it is likely that Michigan Central Station may not see passenger train service anytime soon. For those that have seen this magnificent structure there appears to be plenty of space there. I would guess that Ford might appreciate a tenant for the ground level floor but time will tell.

 

[Old MM]

Waiting and hoping!

 

[danasgoodstuff]

from the reopening


more

 

[Fenway]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/michigan-central-station-reopening-1.7220826

I think the key is restoring the rail link with Windsor

 

[west point]

What is the status of the previous ticketing, baggage check, and baggage claim areas? That is restoration waiting for Amtrak? What about access to train platforms?

 

[MARC Rider]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/michigan-central-station-reopening-1.7220826

I think the key is restoring the rail link with Windsor

When did the last passenger trains between Windsor and Detroit run? I have a 1969 CN timetable that shows they were bussing people between the two cities then.

 

[jiml]

When did the last passenger trains between Windsor and Detroit run? I have a 1969 CN timetable that shows they were bussing people between the two cities then.

CN's passenger service to Detroit was based on a ferry running across the river. When it ceased the busing replaced it. CP partnered with NY/Michigan Central through the tunnel. Technically Amtrak ran service on the route across Southern Ontario, re-entering the US at Buffalo, NY. Some iterations of this did not actually stop in Canada however.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

CN's passenger service to Detroit was based on a ferry running across the river. When it ceased the busing replaced it. CP partnered with NY/Michigan Central through the tunnel. Technically Amtrak ran service on the route across Southern Ontario, re-entering the US at Buffalo, NY. Some iterations of this did not actually stop in Canada however.

I'm pretty sure all of those cross-canada trains were named Niagara Rainbow, although the name was also applied to a once-each-way a week night train between New York and Toronto. What they had in common is that they crossed the Niagara River on the Rainbow Bridge.

 

[railiner]

When did the last passenger trains between Windsor and Detroit run? I have a 1969 CN timetable that shows they were bussing people between the two cities then.

Amtrak on January 31, 1979, according to wiki..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niagara_Rainbow

Last schedule
http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19781029&item=0032

What is incredible, is the apparent ease of customs and immigration in that era, judging by the slight padding between the border stations. IIRC, back then, thru passenger's were in "sealed cars" and did not have to go thru the formalities (twice)....

 

[jis]

I'm pretty sure all of those cross-canada trains were named Niagara Rainbow, although the name was also applied to a once-each-way a week night train between New York and Toronto. What they had in common is that they crossed the Niagara River on the Rainbow Bridge.

A train crossing the Rainbow Bridge would be very surprising as that is a road bridge with no rail tracks.

The Amtrak era New York - Detroit train through Canada started as an extension of the Empire State Express, which was extended from Buffalo to Detroit via Ft. Erie. The name was changed to Niagara Rainbow in 1976. Through this period there was no Amtrak train service to Niagara Falls. Only the single daily bus connection from the Niagara Rainbow/Empire State Express.

Oddly enough for most of its existence the New York - Detroit Niagara Rainbow did not go to Niagara Falls at all. It crossed over to Canada to Ft. Erie over the International Bridge across the Niagara River upstream of the Falls. There was a bus connection from that train to Niagara Falls. The ostensible Customs check posts that served this train around Buffalo were at Black Rock NY (US) and Ft. Erie ON (Canada),

I think around the final year of its operation it was rerouted via the Whirlpool Bridge (corrected - Michigan Central Bridge, see post from @jiml below) as it did call at Niagara Falls NY, though at the previous station in the middle of a yard. Interestingly the other train that ran upto Niagara Falls then was named the Empire State Express!

 

[jiml]

I think around the final year of its operation it was rerouted via the Whirlpool Bridge as it did call at Niagara Falls NY, though at the previous station in the middle of a yard. Interestingly the other train that ran upto Niagara Falls then was named the Empire State Express!

I believe it used the now-abandoned Michigan Central Bridge, adjacent to the Whirlpool bridge, to serve Niagara Falls, NY.

 

[jis]

I believe it used the now-abandoned Michigan Central Bridge, adjacent to the Whirlpool bridge, to serve Niagara Falls, NY.

That is what I was thinking after typing that screed, but was not sure. So much has changed in that area since then.

 

[zephyr17]

That is what I was thinking after typing that screed, but was not sure. So much has changed in that area since then.

Well, the MC Bridge was the way to get onto the Canada Southern (under CP ownership by Amtrak time?) that I recall was the route of the Niagara Rainbow. The Whirlpool Bridge leads on to CN's Grimsby Sub, the route of the Maple Leaf. There was no connection to the Canada Southern from the Whirlpool, it would be far to sharp a turn in any case. Lining up the the Canada Southern is why the MC bridge curves to the south.

 

[jiml]

Well, the MC Bridge was the way to get onto the Canada Southern (under CP ownership by Amtrak time?) that I recall was the route of the Niagara Rainbow. The Whirlpool Bridge leads on to CN's Grimsby Sub, the route of the Maple Leaf. There was no connection to the Canada Southern from the Whirlpool, it would be far to sharp a turn in any case. Lining up the the Canada Southern is why the MC bridge curves to the south.

Correct on all counts. CPKC actually still "owns" the MC Bridge, and while service could be reconnected on the US side relatively easily there's a big casino in the way and few tracks on the Canadian side. Here's a fairly recent video on the subject:

 

[Fenway]

"When we think about Michigan Central moving forward, the fact that we are right at an international border crossing, the fact that the Windsor, Ont., and Toronto market is right next to us, we talk about all the time, as significant and meaningful," said Josh Sirefman, the CEO of Michigan Central.


"Our hope is that the work here reflects opportunities created by that."

Along with cross border collaboration, Sirefman says he believes a passenger link by rail between Windsor and Detroit could someday return, a $44-million idea floated by Amtrak and Via Rail as recently as last November. Right now, only freight runs along tracks through a rail tunnel that connects the two sides.

"We are hopeful that over time, with participation from all levels of government that passenger rail could happen again."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/michigan-central-station-reopening-1.7220826

I certainly think a Chicago/Toronto corridor can be viable in the future. Could Toledo/Detroit be restored?

In 1969 I took an overnight train from Michigan Central to Chicago (Union) and wound up getting a free ride as the ticket office was closed and the conductor didn't want to deal with my travelers' checks. At that point, Penn-Central couldn't care less.

 

[dlagrua]

It should be known that Detroit already has Amtrak service at a small station about 1/2 mile away from Michigan Central. The service there goes to CHI.
The route that once ran through Canada from Niagara Falls and went to central station may be difficult to restore but it may be an easier move for Amtrak to use Michigan Central for the CHI route. Tracks still run behind it and they are used.

 

[BlackDiamond]

It should be known that Detroit already has Amtrak service at a small station about 1/2 mile away from Michigan Central. The service there goes to CHI.
The route that once ran through Canada from Niagara Falls and went to central station may be difficult to restore but it may be an easier move for Amtrak to use Michigan Central for the CHI route. Tracks still run behind it and they are used.

Although if they wanted to continue to serve Pontiac and the other stations north of Detroit they would have to reverse at Michigan Central then connect to the existing line that runs through the current station. Might make sense to continue to serve both stations, similar to the situation in Buffalo.

 

[railiner]

Although if they wanted to continue to serve Pontiac and the other stations north of Detroit they would have to reverse at Michigan Central then connect to the existing line that runs through the current station. Might make sense to continue to serve both stations, similar to the situation in Buffalo.

I think it would be better for Amtrak to move its trains to the Michigan Central station, and let the regional transit authority run local trains from there up up to Pontiac, the way it used to be.
That is, if the Pontiac trains could also directly come into that station, without having to do a reverse move at the current station. Not familiar with the tracks in that area…

 

[jiml]

I think it would be better for Amtrak to move its trains to the Michigan Central station, and let the regional transit authority run local trains from there up up to Pontiac, the way it used to be.
That is, if the Pontiac trains could also directly come into that station, without having to do a reverse move at the current station. Not familiar with the tracks in that area…

If memory serves, all the tracks leaving the one side of the station head to the CP tunnel. Significant construction/expropriation would be required to create a run-through in another direction. That said, the connections to both directions from the other side of the station are excellent and no problem for the usual "double-headed" Amtrak Michigan trains or future Siemens sets.

 

[zephyr17]

I agree that use of MC is needed for Canada service via Detroit. One problem, however, is that the connection with the CP is awkward, to say the least, to VIA's Windsor station on CN and with VIA's CN hosted operation generally. There is a reason the International went via Port Huron/Sarnia on CN's historically preferred routing (although use of Superliners and the tunnel's then restricted clearances also probably played a role). Also, Ford has to agree. They seem to be at least somewhat favorably inclined to hosting a passenger facility, but Canada service would require a port of entry facility in the station somewhere. That's a bigger footprint than a agent/baggage desk and a train gate and a much bigger ask.