Mini-circle trip: clockwise or counter-clockwise? (Cardinal + Lake Shore)

[Trollopian]

Railfan friends, I'm thinking of taking a mini-circle* trip in late September or October, just to burn up some AGR points and to get some "train therapy." (It's been too long since I traveled for pure pleasure. My commutes on the Cap between DC and Pittsburgh don't fully count, given the sad state of the Cap, though it continues to beat every other mode.)

The trip would begin and end in DC, via Cardinal (which I've never ridden) and Lake Shore Limited (ditto), with an overnight in NYC and an overnight in Chicago just because. Between DC and NYC I'd take a NEC which are plentiful.

Since "scenery" is the whole point, do you recommend that I take the Cardinal and the Lake clockwise or counter-clockwise? At that time of year there'll be about 12 hours of daylight, plus about an hour of visibility (a.m. and p.m.), otherwise dark. Thanks in advance.

* Not to be confused with the "great circle" trip that I was stymied from taking in spring 2020 and that remains a dream.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Railfan friends, I'm thinking of taking a mini-circle* trip in late September or October, just to burn up some AGR points and to get some "train therapy." (It's been too long since I traveled for pure pleasure. My commutes on the Cap between DC and Pittsburgh don't fully count, given the sad state of the Cap, though it continues to beat every other mode.)

The trip would begin and end in DC, via Cardinal (which I've never ridden) and Lake Shore Limited (ditto), with an overnight in NYC and an overnight in Chicago just because. Between DC and NYC I'd take a NEC which are plentiful.

Since "scenery" is the whole point, do you recommend that I take the Cardinal and the Lake clockwise or counter-clockwise? At that time of year there'll be about 12 hours of daylight, plus about an hour of visibility (a.m. and p.m.), otherwise dark. Thanks in advance.

* Not to be confused with the "great circle" trip that I was stymied from taking in spring 2020 and that remains a dream.

I'd go with taking the Lake Shore West to Chicago,( Morning Arrival) then the Cardinal East since the New River Gorge and the Virginia Scenery will have the most daylight even when the Card runs Late ( which is usually !)

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Eastbound on the Cardinal.

 

[zephyr17]

Eastbound on the Cardinal. Eastbound you get the whole New River Gorge in daylight. Westbound, night is falling.

The Lake Shore scenic highlight, the Hudson River, is daylight both directions. The rest of the scenery on the Lake Shore is nothing to shout about.

 

[pi314]

Interesting question. So the way I see it, the two most important criteria are scenery and hotel logistics, both of which should probably assume these trains will eventually be running late by their arrival times.

People will have their own opinions on what is the best timing for each route direction scenery-wise, but I think everyone would agree the flat midwest states are nothing remarkable to look at. For me the more important consideration is the departure/arrival times at the three cities in question. If it were me I'd go counter-clockwise.

Counterclockwise: Day 1 taking the NEC would allow flexibility regarding arrival time in NYC and you could get in early enough to make a nice half day of it. Day 2 you might be able to get a late checkout and not spend most of the day feeling adrift without a hotel waiting to leave Penn Station at 3:40PM, plus you get the high likelihood of not being delayed (yet) to enjoy the Hudson River route during daylight. A scheduled mid-morning arrival in Chicago at 10:12AM means you'll probably be able to check in to your hotel by the time you get there and have a half day there. Day 3 is kind of a late departure from Union Station at 5:55PM, but early enough that the dining car will probably be going, and it'll be night time for the boring Midwest parts. Plus if you get to DC later than the scheduled 6:44PM, you're home and better able to deal with it.

Clockwise: Day 1 on the Cardinal looks good for scenery and departure/arrival times. Day 2 is sketchy. Unless you're paying for an extra hotel night you won't use, a 9:30PM departure from Chicago is really late to not have a place to hang out. Not exactly the safest place to be roaming around at night and the dining car will surely be closed. Also don't like the 6:42PM arrival into NY. If the train is late you'll miss the Hudson scenery and who wants to get in to NYC after dark at who knows what time and do the hotel check-in drill? Day 3 is flexible, but really can't see much of NY if you're concerned about a check out time.

 

[fdaley]

As others have said, the best scenery on the Cardinal is more reliably seen eastbound. And to me, the Lake Shore schedule is more tolerable westbound than eastbound. By late September, you'll miss the Mohawk Valley, which I think is really quite scenic, going west, but you'll still get the Hudson River at sunset, which is great. Eastbound, the LSL's late-evening departure from Chicago makes for a very long second day with the current limited food options. Of course, the Cardinal's food situation isn't any better.

 

[fdaley]

Coach? Sleeper? Combination?

 

[Trollopian]

Coach? Sleeper? Combination?

Roomettes on the overnight routes, for comfort (and to burn up AGR points...yeah, yeah, I know they don't expire, so long as I keep making FNBO charges, but someday I will expire).

Thanks, railfan friends! Never have I seen such unanimity on Amtrak Unlimited. Special thanks to pi34 for analyzing both scenery and hotel logistics. Counterclockwise it is, NEC to NYC then Lake Shore then Cardinal eastbound.

 

[BlackDiamond]

Another possibility is Boston instead of New York and catch 449 there. Would require either a very early departure from WAS or a stopover in Boston.

 

[MARC Rider]

Another possibility is Boston instead of New York and catch 449 there. Would require either a very early departure from WAS or a stopover in Boston.

Yeah, but I think the Hudson Valley scenery on 49 beats that of the Berkshires on 449.

 

[BlackDiamond]

Yeah, but I think the Hudson Valley scenery on 49 beats that of the Berkshires on 449.

True although in compensation you get the view along the Connecticut shoreline on the NEC up to Boston plus the view of NYC from the Hell Gate Bridge.

 

[MARC Rider]

True although in compensation you get the view along the Connecticut shoreline on the NEC up to Boston plus the view of NYC from the Hell Gate Bridge.

Oh yeah, right now they're single-tracking on the Hell Gate Bridge, another source of delay. My Acela from Boston was late into New York, then we got stuck behind the Crescent and unspecified "commuter trains" and arrived in Baltimore an hour late.

 

[Rambling Robert]

Looking south on the LSL is best to see the Erie canal. That’s about it for the LSL.

 

[herlsone]

Railfan friends, I'm thinking of taking a mini-circle* trip in late September or October, just to burn up some AGR points and to get some "train therapy." (It's been too long since I traveled for pure pleasure. My commutes on the Cap between DC and Pittsburgh don't fully count, given the sad state of the Cap, though it continues to beat every other mode.)

The trip would begin and end in DC, via Cardinal (which I've never ridden) and Lake Shore Limited (ditto), with an overnight in NYC and an overnight in Chicago just because. Between DC and NYC I'd take a NEC which are plentiful.

Since "scenery" is the whole point, do you recommend that I take the Cardinal and the Lake clockwise or counter-clockwise? At that time of year there'll be about 12 hours of daylight, plus about an hour of visibility (a.m. and p.m.), otherwise dark. Thanks in advance.

* Not to be confused with the "great circle" trip that I was stymied from taking in spring 2020 and that remains a dream.

I did this, but started in Chicago. Had to visit my son in Boston, so I went there on the Lake shore and came back on the Cardinal just for fun. As you may suspect, it was a lot of train therapy as you say.

 

[danasgoodstuff]

I went eastbound on the Lakeshore specifically so I could see Buffalo Cental Terminal from trackside at breakfast, but I have childhoo memories of that station.